SOFTWARE DEFINED RADIOS: Can we monitor them ????

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Archie

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So what does the advent of Software Defined Radios mean for the future of scanning?

Willl these systems be encrypted or unmonitorable ?

How far away are they from being sold and implemented to local governments?

Thank You Much
 

Voyager

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Archie said:
So what does the advent of Software Defined Radios mean for the future of scanning?

Willl these systems be encrypted or unmonitorable ?

How far away are they from being sold and implemented to local governments?

Thank You Much

It really depends on what they are defined AS. They could be defined as a conventional system, or as an encrypted system.

Joe M.
 
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N_Jay

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Archie said:
So what does the advent of Software Defined Radios mean for the future of scanning?

Willl these systems be encrypted or unmonitorable ?

How far away are they from being sold and implemented to local governments?

Thank You Much

SDR is a way to build a radio, not a type of transmission.

The deffinition of SDR is such that you could call some of today's more advanced equipment as already being SDR.
 

INDY72

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SDR just means a far more flexible user environment for the radios.

Encrypted and scrambled and analog and digital modulation has nothing to do with the SDR concept,... They of course apply to ANY format used, except for digital and VHF Lo Band...... thier isn't as far as I know a digital standard for Lo yet. If anyone knows of one other than for say military use (never mind you HAM guys as you have your own world when it comes to experimentation) someone please post it.
 

Llwellyn

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I'm willing to bet that the Wulfsberg radios that cost more than my car did are using some form of the SDR technology... they are programmable on the fly like a scanner with the same type of range, but they are transceivers. You put in a frequency, and you can TX on it from Lo Band to 900Mhz... they also support Motorola trunking.
 

scanfan03

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Llwellyn said:
I'm willing to bet that the Wulfsberg radios that cost more than my car did are using some form of the SDR technology... they are programmable on the fly like a scanner with the same type of range, but they are transceivers. You put in a frequency, and you can TX on it from Lo Band to 900Mhz... they also support Motorola trunking.

More than your car!! :shock: I want that scanner, oops, I mean transceiver :lol: and it even does Moto, that is an awesome radio. I've never heard of it before. Is there any site on the web that has a picture and a discription of this radio?
 

Llwellyn

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The link to Wulfsberg is actually http://www.wulfsberg.com . An excerpt from their front page:

"Wulfsberg's Flexcomm™ II communication system supports all channel frequencies from 29.7 MHz to 960 MHz, including APCO P-25 compliant digital, analog, trunking and encryption standards, for rotor and fixed wing aircraft used in law enforcement, fire control, medical evacuation, search and rescue, oil exploration, electronic news-gathering and military applications."

Here is a link to our thread in the MD forum where we first found out about them, and one of our MD members posted a picture he was allowed to take of our Trooper 2 ( one of eight Maryland State Police air paramedics) which has one of the older Wulfsberg radios installed. There are links to more pics, and there are pics on the Wulfsberg site.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=16731[/i]
 

scanhoog

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I'm equally curious about the possibility of a PC controlled radio scanner, like a sound card A/D, but for radio tuning, scanning and reception. Such a radio could have a platform to support different decoding and modulatin schemes, open source plug-ins, etc. The result could be a software scanner with decoding of virtually any digital scheme and probable decryption for light-weight security schemes in cheaper devices.

Much of my interest in the uniden radios was the possibility of software control and moving along these types of lines. However, these radios do not export enough to let the PC perform signal processing and decoding. Essentially, you want the final conversion fed into something like a high speed modem's programming digital processing chip. Then, in theory, downloadable signal processing can decode virtually any desired modulated signal.

I just like the idea that if you can receive it, you can see it (no illegal intent -- if law enforcement or others want privacy, I assume they use strong encryption and good key management). If someone uses weak obfuscation instead of encryption, caveat emptor.


Dan
 
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N_Jay

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Llwellyn said:
I'm willing to bet that the Wulfsberg radios that cost more than my car did are using some form of the SDR technology... they are programmable on the fly like a scanner with the same type of range, but they are transceivers. You put in a frequency, and you can TX on it from Lo Band to 900Mhz... they also support Motorola trunking.

The issue is that there is no GOOD working definition of what "is" and what "is not" DSR!
 

Voyager

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scanhoog said:
I'm equally curious about the possibility of a PC controlled radio scanner, like a sound card A/D, but for radio tuning, scanning and reception.

Like the WinRadio?

Joe M.
 

scanhoog

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Yeah, winradio is a start, but....

I'd like a $299 PC card, not a mil-tech looking field gear (though it is a start).

I'd like to see a lot more done in software, use a current machine to the fullest for signal processing with special on-board help.

This thing starts to fit the paradigm, but is really a radio with a better PC link than current unidens, not a software based radio.

JMHO -- My actual need for any of these devices doesn't register on any scale, so my sense of a neat software radio scanning system are pure opinion. Of course, I'd like it to pick up all the TV channels at least AM 590 ;-)
 

kg4icg

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Now to break the bad news to you guy's SDR's are now out in which one is advertised in QST magazine 11 khz to 60 mhz receive, ham band full transmit. Requires you to have it hooked up to a pc at all times because it uses software on the computer and the soundcard in the computer . Txmit power at 100 watts and pricetag advertised at 1375 dollars. The SDR's are tranceivers, not scanners, and unless someone can guarantee that the software can not be changed to allow certain frequencies, will not be allowed as scanners. That only pertains to the US other countries have different rules but i think you might get the point. Website is www.flex-radio.com


R Collins
 

INDY72

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Guys do you all realize that we now are getting into basically talking about doing for scanners what M/A-Com and Motorola are doing to radios.... IP technology?????

Hmmm could be one of you tech hounds will make a P-25IP capable scanner, and have it somehow SD, without making the FCC go insane????

I can see it now.... a scanner with true IP-OTAR upgrading/updating.....

Log into RR.com from in the field and update the db......download info on the fly....
 

loumaag

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kg4icg said:
Now to break the bad news to you guy's SDR's are now out in which one is advertised in QST magazine 11 khz to 60 mhz receive, ham band full transmit. Requires you to have it hooked up to a pc at all times because it uses software on the computer and the soundcard in the computer . Txmit power at 100 watts and pricetag advertised at 1375 dollars. The SDR's are tranceivers, not scanners, and unless someone can guarantee that the software can not be changed to allow certain frequencies, will not be allowed as scanners. That only pertains to the US other countries have different rules but i think you might get the point. Website is www.flex-radio.com
Apparently you didn't read the site very well. What do you think this is?

And (other than mfg.) just how is this different from the TenTec Pegasus which is 5 years old and discontinued. :?
 

kg4icg

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it's different from the pegasus because this radio is totally controlled by the software and unlike the pegasus it doesn't have the speakers inside the case. The pegausus also wasn't a total sdr radio as the sdr1000 is. The Filters for the radio is the computer as such as audio and a few other parameters such as modulation modes. For the pegasus, that was all hardware.
R Collins
ps a better radio example would have been the Kenwood TS-B2000, I have the TS-2000X myself. In which it has 2 100 mhz CPU's inside.
TS-B2000 blackbox version of TS-2000 which all functions are controlled by the software but also controlled by the remote head if attached. and yes there's a TS-B2000X too which covers from hf bands to 6, 2meters 70 cm, and 23cm.
 
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N_Jay

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milf said:
Guys do you all realize that we now are getting into basically talking about doing for scanners what M/A-Com and Motorola are doing to radios.... IP technology?????

Hmmm could be one of you tech hounds will make a P-25IP capable scanner, and have it somehow SD, without making the FCC go insane????

I can see it now.... a scanner with true IP-OTAR upgrading/updating.....

Log into RR.com from in the field and update the db......download info on the fly....

What does SDR have to do with IP?

AND

P-25IP is P-25 CIA over the air, so it does not need a different scanner.
 

INDY72

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P-25 IP uses Internet Protocol- thus IP. Its functions are set up through the internet. Even I can read.

SDR means it can be reconfigured by software for its mission.

Think about it.

Uniden has OTAR capable scanners for its SportCat line NOW.

Combine all this.

Hmm getting the picture?

SDR type scanner, with OTAR capability, and IP technology.

Yes itll be expensive.

Yes its feasable.
 
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N_Jay

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milf said:
P-25 IP uses Internet Protocol- thus IP. Its functions are set up through the internet. Even I can read.

SDR means it can be reconfigured by software for its mission.

Think about it.

Uniden has OTAR capable scanners for its SportCat line NOW.

Combine all this.

Hmm getting the picture?

SDR type scanner, with OTAR capability, and IP technology.

Yes itll be expensive.

Yes its feasable.

Stop jumping to conclusions!

p25IP uses IP in the backbone and it is on a private network, not the Internet.

SDR means SOFTWARE DEFINED RADIO, not radio on an IP Network.

The SD part has to do with the RADIO functions. Modulation, and Demodulation, including channel and voice coding. Not how the network is configured.

(They like calling it "waveforms".)
 

INDY72

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Even if its a secure net.. IP is IP is IP.

SDR is still Software Defined Radio.. the radios themselves are completely adaptable by software ... I never siad the whole system... read carefully N_Jay. :)

And thus I still say that with the new technology, especially the OTAR type scanner techniques that Uniden has developed with the SportCats, and the interesting things the BCD396T is supposed to be capable of...

A future IP enabled OTAR scanner with P-25 capability can happen. Thus the feasibility of pressing a combo of Hot Keys/Quick Keys,.. turns on say a mini browser type system enabling you to go to iether your own specially set aside web interface, or this site for instant reprogramming and uploading of data. :)
 

gr8amp

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MILF, I think you are misunderstanding what SDR truly is. Mostly everything that you are suggesting has little or nothing to do with SDR. Everything that you are fantasizing are just peripheral functions of a receiver, and, if useful and realistic (which I honestly dont believe they are), could be added to existing receiver technologies.

SDR defines the basic receiver functions, not the upper level "features" that are added. For example, instead of using an analog FM discriminator IC, a SDR would first sample and quantize the received signal and demodulation would take place within a DSP or other suitable digital processing device (such as a PC).

What you are describing is just a feature filled interface that can be tagged onto any receiver architecture....software defined or otherwise.
 
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