Some day all systems will be encrypted then what?

[TXFirefighter112]

By the time this happens there will probably be scanners that can monitor them. It's only a matter of time until someone cracks the encryption or it gets leaked and the programming is out. Then what? Are the agencies going to immediately switch to a new system? I doubt it.

I think the ultimate killer of scanning LEO and Fed agencies will be Nextel or something like it that cant even be intercepted much less decrypted (if they even bother to encrypt them).

 

[RayAir]

Police monitoring is about 20% of what I listen to. I am actually more interested in EDACS and LTR systems for business/security,etc uses. I enjoy analyzing the systems, especially LTR. I like to find and log new TGID's. I use my Pro-92 for this since it has auto-LCN and there is no need to have the channels in proper order. There are many interesting comms on some LTR's. I listen to a insurance fraud detectives business and sometimes its funny to hear them busting people who are fraudulently collecting workers comp,etc. I enjoy the technical aspects of scanning. I search all bands and log all activity including TGID's, DCS/PL tones, signal strength, date/time and a brief note about what was said. This all goes into my local "SIGINT" file.

 

[Hooligan]

By the time this happens there will probably be scanners that can monitor them. It's only a matter of time until someone cracks the encryption or it gets leaked and the programming is out. Then what? Are the agencies going to immediately switch to a new system? I doubt it.

I think the ultimate killer of scanning LEO and Fed agencies will be Nextel or something like it that cant even be intercepted much less decrypted (if they even bother to encrypt them).

Are you not aware that under the ECPA, it is illegal in the USA to decrypt encrypted communications that you're not a legal party to? If anyone can do it here in the USA, they're not really going to be able to market it to you or I.

DVP & DES are over 30 years old now, and both were very low-grade systems not even ever allowed to protect classified information. The Parkhill & Vinson family of Type I encryption systems are somewhere close to 40 years old.

Who do you know that's decrypted them, or has "leaked" the encryption/programming *and* was or is selling the capability to monitor that stuff?


It's not crypto systems that are going to bring doom & gloom to us scanner geeks like the original poster implied, but it might be certain spectrally-efficient, proprietary modes (with or without crypto) like iDEN, MotoTurbo or other systems that use spread-spectrum & while not encrypted, do require private/proprietary information in order to detect the network, let-alone track users & decode audio.


I've been around long enough to have survived the doom & gloom predicted and 'Constititional rights violations' that 800MHz trunking (early to mid-1980s), then Motorola Astro/P-25, and more recently OpenSky. All do or did present technological & legal challenges to the scanner manufacturers just as future technologies will. But in the USA -- the largest market for scanners -- the crypto issue is a brick wall. If M/AComm ever decides to license the OpenSky technology to GRE or Uniden, they'd have to offer it cheap, because as of now, OpenSky is somewhat of a fiasco (witness NY...), but it'd let M/AComm's salespeople push encryption for those users who don't already require it.


Oh, a good bulk of federal comms have been using Nextels for the past 10 years or so already!

 

[N_Jay]

By the time this happens there will probably be scanners that can monitor them. It's only a matter of time until someone cracks the encryption or it gets leaked and the programming is out.

I think you may have a basic misunderstanding on how encryption works.

 

[newtoscanning]

Interested in knowing what agency (other than prvt security, and GO's POOs) is using iDEN in Toronto, last I checked TO had a smartzone system for all public safety communications...

As for using commercial systems (towers/hardware) it's been long proven that very rarely can a commercial company provide the requirements needed for public safety, that's why everyone pays the big $ to get their own towers/site equipment...

I;m wondering if one day they will go to a voip system/cell system for everything. I know they like to have multiple frequencies/talk groups so i dont know if this will happen but down in toronto i think one of the departments use mike push to talk system? I've seen a huge group of them doing training and they have a telus system i think. I can see this being plausible for undercover and things like that where you dont tie up a radio frequency doing surveillance (which is constant radio traffic when things start happening) but for everything else i think a radio is better.

Now with a radio you have towers to contend with and lease/maintain, whereas a cell based system can be just as secure, cant be scanned and you dont pay for those towers! (although you pay monthly fees which pays someone else for cells, however your range is increased to basically anywhere in the country)