Some PSR-500 / PSR-600 Questions

[SOFA_KING]

I'm so impressed with what I have read about these new scanners from GRE. Some of the custom advanced options are fantastic. I love to tweak out a radio to it's best and these give you so many great features to do that. But I do have some concerns that may be deal breakers IF these issues can't be fixed with updates. I may wait for something like a possible BC996XT that does. But GRE really has the best custom features I have seen, so I hope GRE can come through. I have searched and read the manual, so please just sum it up for me and do not tell me to search or read through hundreds more threads. I have been at it for three days now.

QUESTIONS:

1 - Can a conventional channel be set to digital only (P25) reception without a NAC? The reason I would want this is to filter out intermod and noise, and just stop and open up on ANY NAC. Maybe even search for NACs, but not stop or open on CSQ garbage. Can you program a channel to be digital only where all NACs open the receiver?

2 - Is there a limit to how many search channels you can lock out? I would like to be able to put in a wide range of freqs and just keep locking out know freqs/noise, and search unknown freqs for activity. Most scanners I have had limited the lockouts to something like 100. That is not near enough for me.

3 - Can you search for conventionals with a certain NAC or PL/DPL? You know...I search a range of freqs for lets say only NAC 167 or PL 167.9 (not at the same time, although that would be super nice!). Does search support that function? That would be a MAJOR PLUS!

4 - Has GRE given us any hope of P25 encryption mute OR "scan continue" on all types of systems including conventional? I just can't listen to that noise on mixed systems.

5 - If I use WX priority, and I set the (advanced) sample time out as far as I can to pickup the 1050 Hz tone (WAT), does it punch such a big hole in an active channel as to make the feature annoying? Here in FL I need to keep my "ear" on the WX. If this feature is fast enough, I would use it!

6 - Am I correct in understanding the trunk system search wildcard feature that ignores known TGs locked out in your programming and looks for new ones so that I can search only for new or unknown stuff? Is BANK lockout or system SCAN LIST lockout all you need to do?

7 - Front end desense - I once had a PRO-92 that would just loose any sensitivity it had in moderate RF environments. My Uniden scanners did not do that. Yes, my Unidens had image issues in high RF areas, but I did better with them as long as I used PL. So far it would appear this is still a problem. Is it?

I like to search for new stuff. That is the part of the hobby I like the most. Understanding a radio system and getting it right in my programming is what I love. Noise and hang-ups on useless garbage are not my thing. I often use commercial equipment for listening to known stuff even though there are channel limits. I would prefer to have a good scanner that could function more like a two-way. I know we are talking a different price class here, but some of the features I want are firmware features, and not hardware. A good receiver is the exception, and that I would pay more for!

One other note: Since noise in CSQ mode is a given, can't these new class of scanners be made to VALIDATE transmissions by detecting ANY NAC/PL/DPL before holding up scan or opening the speaker? Perhaps this could be an option you could select. Then display the code to make it super cool! This would eliminate so much and lockups on searching. It would also allow users to keep a watch out for new codes!

One other thing: MDC1200 mute and OTAR skip! That would make it perfect!!!

Thanks all!

 

[n5usr]

I can't answer most of your questions, as I don't use the bits you ask about, but:

5 - If I use WX priority, and I set the (advanced) sample time out as far as I can to pickup the 1050 Hz tone (WAS), does it punch such a big hole in an active channel as to make the feature annoying? Here in FL I need to keep my "ear" on the WX. If this feature is fast enough, I would use it!

Just played with this, and the scanner blips over to the weather frequency for just a brief moment like any other priority function I've seen on other scanners. For conventional frequencies, I don't find it annoying as it's barely enough to clip out maybe a syllable of speech. But on the trunked system I monitor it leaves a very noticeable hole as the scanner resyncs to the system - not at all keen on that.

6 - Am I correct in understanding the trunk system search wildcard feature that ignores known TGs locked out in your programming and looks for new ones so that I can search only for new or unknown stuff? Is BANK lockout or system SCAN LIST lockout all you need to do?

According to the manual, yes - indirectly. All I find in a brief search of the manual is a section that says while scanning with the wildcard, if a TG comes up you don't want you can hit the L/O button and it creates a new TGID for that TG, places it in the same scanlist as the wildcard, and sets the permanent lockout. I would take from that any TGIDs you create and then manually lock out would also be skipped. But it appears you would have to manually lock out each one of the TGIDs, there isn't a global.

 

[SOFA_KING]

Thank you, N5USR.

Those answers are very helpfull. I have my finger on the trigger right now. It is killing me!

It is a lot of money to plunk down. I just want to be confident I'm doing the right thing.

Thanks again!

Can anyone else answer some of these questions and push me over the fence?

Phil

 

[mikey60]

1 - Can a conventional channel be set to digital only (P25) reception without a NAC? The reason I would want this is to filter out intermod and noise, and just stop and open up on ANY NAC. Maybe even search for NACs, but not stop or open on CSQ garbage. Can you program a channel to be digital only where all NACs open the receiver?

Yes, set the tone search mode to NAC Search, and the frequency will only open on a digital transmission.

2 - Is there a limit to how many search channels you can lock out? I would like to be able to put in a wide range of freqs and just keep locking out know freqs/noise, and search unknown freqs for activity. Most scanners I have had limited the lockouts to something like 100. That is not near enough for me.

Yes there is a limit of 250 lockout frequencies for the search and sweeper/stalker functions. That list is shared between the two modes.

3 - Can you search for conventionals with a certain NAC or PL/DPL? You know...I search a range of freqs for lets say only NAC 167 or PL 167.9 (not at the same time, although that would be super nice!). Does search support that function? That would be a MAJOR PLUS!

No, not that I'm aware of.

4 - Has GRE given us any hope of P25 encryption mute OR "scan continue" on all types of systems including conventional? I just can't listen to that noise on mixed systems.

Not that I've heard at this point.

5 - If I use WX priority, and I set the (advanced) sample time out as far as I can to pickup the 1050 Hz tone (WAT), does it punch such a big hole in an active channel as to make the feature annoying? Here in FL I need to keep my "ear" on the WX. If this feature is fast enough, I would use it!

Yes it will. It will be quite noticable.

6 - Am I correct in understanding the trunk system search wildcard feature that ignores known TGs locked out in your programming and looks for new ones so that I can search only for new or unknown stuff? Is BANK lockout or system SCAN LIST lockout all you need to do?

By default, the wildcard will ignore talkgroups that are already programmed into the radio. The radio and the wildcards will ignore talkgroups that are in disabled scan lists as well. The radio will ignore ANY talkgroups that are entered and marked as locked out, regardless of the scanlists they are members of.

7 - Front end desense - I once had a PRO-92 that would just loose any sensitivity it had in moderate RF environments. My Uniden scanners did not do that. Yes, my Unidens had image issues in high RF areas, but I did better with them as long as I used PL. So far it would appear this is still a problem. Is it?

The PSR-500 is very sensitive. Some people have experienced desense in high RF environments.

One other note: Since noise in CSQ mode is a given, can't these new class of scanners be made to VALIDATE transmissions by detecting ANY NAC/PL/DPL before holding up scan or opening the speaker? Perhaps this could be an option you could select. Then display the code to make it super cool! This would eliminate so much and lockups on searching. It would also allow users to keep a watch out for new codes!

Yes they will.

Mike

 

[SOFA_KING]

Yes, set the tone search mode to NAC Search, and the frequency will only open on a digital transmission.
Mike

Thank you, Mike. Great answers!

That first answer was a big plus for me. BONUS! I like that!

Now if only GRE could do a firmware fix for muting encrypted P25 noise.

The WX priority would have been nice if the gap was not so big. I'm spoiled by Motorola priority scan!

It looks like I may have to use a V folder or two to set up my channelized sub band searching. I would need far more lockouts than 250.

The hot receiver could be a plus at home, but at tower sites I will have problems. I work at tower sites with 800. Most of my interest is on upper VHF and lower UHF, so I might be ok.

One other thing I wonder about is Trunk Scan Lists. ??? I'm used to having up to 10 "bank like" lists in my trunked system that I can turn on or off at will. I would put Fire in one, local police in two, Sheriff in three, etc... It was like a set of sub lists on the TRS. By the looks of this new format, I do not see any way to do that. What do I have to do? Set up scan lists for each group of users on my trunked systems? Or do I have to lump all users on the TRS in one scan list? How does Uniden do this?

So many questions...What do you think? Should I wait for a BC996XT or just go for a PSR-600?

Phil

 

[mikey60]

One other thing I wonder about is Trunk Scan Lists. ??? I'm used to having up to 10 "bank like" lists in my trunked system that I can turn on or off at will. I would put Fire in one, local police in two, Sheriff in three, etc... It was like a set of sub lists on the TRS. By the looks of this new format, I do not see any way to do that. What do I have to do? Set up scan lists for each group of users on my trunked systems? Or do I have to lump all users on the TRS in one scan list? How does Uniden do this?

There are 20 regular scan lists, plus a favorites and Skywarn scan list for a total of 22.

Any object (Conventional, Talkgroup, Search, or Sweeper/Stalker) may be a member of any scan list. An object may be assigned to any number of scan lists in any combination.

One of the advantages of scan lists, is that talkgroup objects from multiple trunked systems may be in the same scan list. I have a configuration that I use when I travel to the other side of the state that has a scan list with three different trunked systems and some conventional. It has talkgroups from a 460MHz EDACS system, a 800 MHz EDACS system, the MPSCS (P25 Statewide), and conventional. It works well that way.

You could have Police talkgroups/Frequencies in scan list 1, Fire talkgroup/frequencies in scan list 2, etc, and turn those on and off by pressing the number on the key pad that matches the scan list number. These are similar to turning on and off banks on the older scanners.

Mike

 

[SOFA_KING]

It's a whole new ball game. I'm all for eliminating waste, and being able to add just what is needed to a list without limits is great, but I will miss the "sub-list" concept. I do not like to listen to everything at one time. I tend to like to zero in on just what I need so there is no wasted time, so more lists would be better for me. Maybe I will use the V folders for each different county, but then there is no overlap. We shall see. I have to think about all of this.

Thanks again, Mike.

Phil

 

[DaveNF2G]

I have both the PSR-500 and -600. I run the 500 mobile and portable with just its rubber duckie, and the 600 with a discone about 30 feet in the air. I've tried an external antenna on the 500 in the car, too.

On both radios, VHF high band channels need to be attenuated. Otherwise, there is a nearly constant 5-bar reading on the S-meter whenever a VHF channel is being scanned and reception is unreliable. The attenuator function clears that right up.

The 500 works better in the mobile environment with the duckie. VHF high band still needs attenuation in most places where I scan and drive.

The most useful suggestion I can give you for using these scanners is to obtain programming software rather than trying to do everything by hand from the menus. It is much easier to see all of your settings at a glance, and access to the advanced/extended settings is much more convenient. Elsewhere, you can find recommended settings to improve S-meter function, and you can make those adjustments via software only AFAIK.

I own both Win500 (Starrsoft) and ARC-500 Pro (Butel). Personally, I prefer Win500 and use it exclusively now. YMMV.

 

[SOFA_KING]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for all that input. It looks like I will need some front end filters on the GRE. I can do that.

I have always liked Butel software, but from what I'm reading about it you can only program at this point and not log. I really need good logging software to capture those NACs!

I'm still thinking about the GRE and have not pulled the trigger yet. I wonder if holding out for a 996XT would be worth it. Things I like are the 6 dB volume boost, alert lights and alarms, setting custom scan delays, and maybe WX priority alert. NAC is a must and P25 ENC mute might be worth waiting for.

Phil

 

[DaveNF2G]

Waiting or not is up to you, but if you keep waiting for the perfect feature set, then you will end up without a scanner.

 

[SOFA_KING]

True...I went to the only franchise RS store in the area that had both the PRO197 and PRO106 in stock just so I could check them out. I love the way the PRO106 looks! It is very attractive and well designed. But the PRO197 was built like a heavy tank. Big loud audio too! I tried to get the hot Friday deal. Too late for that, but he met me half way, so I took the plung! I'M IN!

I like the way the GRE looks better, but iit is the same radio and nstant gratification got the best of me. The price was right. I know I have to get the USB interface cable, but I will get that when I get the software I want. I think you said Don Star had the best, right? Can you log search hits with PL's and NACs using that?

Anyway, I will give this box a try. I'm still very interested in a BCD996XT if and when it ever comes out, but I have something to use for my Fed searching, so I'm stoked.

Phil

 

[tglendye]

I'll put a plug in for Mickey60... after all he provided some good answers to your questions in this forum. So don't forget to check out PSE-Edit software. I think he still has a one month free trial, as do the others. They're all good... so check them out.

 

[SOFA_KING]

I'll put a plug in for Mickey60... after all he provided some good answers to your questions in this forum. So don't forget to check out PSE-Edit software. I think he still has a one month free trial, as do the others. They're all good... so check them out.

He did? I do not know everyone here yet. I have heard very good things about PSR Edit, so I'm going that route. Now, do I buy the RS USB cable or get the GRE version somewhere else? I have to do a price check.

I put in a huge amount of my most important stuff by hand. It is good to learn how to do that, but the other stuff will be done with software. What a great sounding scanner! And the custom options are killer! Custom scan delays on each "object" and volume boost on the important stuff are just two things that really make me smile.

I did set the WX priority to on, and I custom tweaked out the sample time and hold time (120 & 7) to the longest time between samples that would work with the NWS and the smallest hole to catch the tone. I tested it with the service monitor and it works perfect without punching big holes too often. And yes, trunked systems get a bigger hole, but it is not too bad if the samples are far apart. I CAN live with that and I get a WX alert receiver at the same time I'm scanning. Bonus!

The P25 sounds SO MUCH BETTER than my Uniden 785 and 250. So this is the way it is supposed to sound, huh? It even sounds better than my Motorola XTS3000!

I was a little worried my conventional "G band" P25 was not working. It is a slow day here. But I did some testing on my local trunked system and it did work. It even found NAC 3C1 on P25 trunked transmissions. It was just a test to see how it worked. Just 5 minutes ago I got my first official "G band" P25 NAC (167). The transmission was encrypted, and it did not sound near as loud and offensive as my old Uniden's (wonder why?). Anyway, I can now monitor my G band stuff without having to be in CSQ mode! Thank GRE! And I have it working in a dual mode by first programming the P25 channel and then the PL channel right after it (same freq). It IS working in a dual mode, but takes twice the channel space and time. Even with 140 channels scanning it is fast enough.

So far this is a great scanner. Very much better in quality than I expected. The last GRE I had was a PRO92. That was a toy compared to this. This is like two-way quality. I di get some FM overload on the S meter, so I need an FM filter. On the indoor antenna it is not causing a problem so far. Back to the buttons!

Phil

 

[tonycash]

True...I went to the only franchise RS store in the area that had both the PRO197 and PRO106 in stock just so I could check them out. I love the way the PRO106 looks! It is very attractive and well designed. But the PRO197 was built like a heavy tank. Big loud audio too! I tried to get the hot Friday deal. Too late for that, but he met me half way, so I took the plung! I'M IN!

I like the way the GRE looks better, but iit is the same radio and nstant gratification got the best of me. The price was right. I know I have to get the USB interface cable, but I will get that when I get the software I want. I think you said Don Star had the best, right? Can you log search hits with PL's and NACs using that?

Anyway, I will give this box a try. I'm still very interested in a BCD996XT if and when it ever comes out, but I have something to use for my Fed searching, so I'm stoked.

Phil

You should have checked Radioshack.com, they have both the PRO197 and PRO106 on sale for $399.99
thru 1/3/09.

73 de Tony, KD4K

 

[SOFA_KING]

You should have checked Radioshack.com, they have both the PRO197 and PRO106 on sale for $399.99
thru 1/3/09.

73 de Tony, KD4K

Hey Tony,

That is what I meant by "Half Way". Half way between $299 and $499.

After most of a night and a full day with this thing, I am very impressed with it. This is a new GRE to me. No toy here...better than some commercial gear I have owned. It is solid and sensitive. The receiver is selective and low on noise. The features are outstanding! The SOUND is FULL and LOUD.

Best scanner I ever had and I'm hard to please.

I would like to see four fixes on features to make this the perfect scanner:

1 - Encryption mute
2 - MDC1200 and OTAR mute
3 - Search for codes only option (no CSQ to hang up on when you hit inteference)
4 - More scan lists

73 ~

Phil

 

[tglendye]

He did? I do not know everyone here yet. I have heard very good things about PSR Edit, so I'm going that route. Now, do I buy the RS USB cable or get the GRE version somewhere else? I have to do a price check. ...

You've asked some well informed questions. I've read a lot of posts where Mickey60 has helped others as well, and I figured I'd throw the idea out to you since he replied w/ a lot of answers.

Glad you like your radio and good luck!

Todd

 

[SOFA_KING]

Thanks, Todd. The fun never ends...I just got the priority working on my County trunked system. This is just like my Motorola XTS3000 (which I might now sell). I set up my fire dispatch TG to be priority with a special beep, flashing alert lamp, and volume boost. I can be listening to some regular TG traffic and the second the fire dispatch TG keys up the priority switches me there and I here the call. WOW! It's just too good!

Phil

 

[tonycash]

Hey Tony,

That is what I meant by "Half Way". Half way between $299 and $499.

After most of a night and a full day with this thing, I am very impressed with it. This is a new GRE to me. No toy here...better than some commercial gear I have owned. It is solid and sensitive. The receiver is selective and low on noise. The features are outstanding! The SOUND is FULL and LOUD.

Best scanner I ever had and I'm hard to please.

I would like to see four fixes on features to make this the perfect scanner:

1 - Encryption mute
2 - MDC1200 and OTAR mute
3 - Search for codes only option (no CSQ to hang up on when you hit inteference)
4 - More scan lists

73 ~

Phil

OK, I thought $399 was the best price they had, had.
I can't believe they were selling those thing for $299.
Almost makes me wish I had waited another 2 months
to get mine, although I got mine for $426 and it came
with the programming cable. I got the PSR-600 and I
really like it also.
I am not really big into scanning and don't even know
what most of the terms and fancy things you talk about are.

73
Tony, KD4K

 

[SOFA_KING]

You did good, Tony. The $299 deal was on Christmas day and maybe before that as well. I saw it and let it go by (stupid). Oh well. :roll:

I'm one of those guys who knows how the two-ways work in detail. All my Motorola radios are tweaked as well as you can tweak them, but even with the commercial radios, there are limitations and sometimes flaws. In general they are miles ahead in some areas (RX quality), but you can expect them to be. This GRE comes so close to commercial radio quality because of the many advanced features you can custom fine tune. It actually exceeds most radios I have programmed. Of course the role of the scanner is different, and search features are never on two-ways. GRE has given us the ability to really fine tune the box like the two-ways, but default settings are not bad. You don't have to mess with it if you are not that technical. Putting them in an "advanced" area was smart. It says to the owner that you can but may not want to mess with this stuff. Those extra features allow me to make this thing work 100% perfect and beyond my expectations. The stuff I wish they included is part of what two-ways do to keep system feature noise down to the users (items 1 & 2). The other items are for search hounds like me who sometimes get in high RF areas where RF noise and interference are everywhere. When you search in that environment, you get hung up in carrier squelch mode. That is why I suggested an option to look only for codes as most users have some sort of CTCSS, DCS, or P25 NAC. I know of a small amount of systems that do not use any coded squelch, so that is why you need it to be optional...just in case.

ONE MORE NEEDED FEATURE WOULD BE MIXED MODE! One conventional frequency entry with both P25 and CTCSS or DCS. Right now I have to program two channels to do this. It wastes scan time and memory!

I'm still thinking about my list structure. I really need more lists and I hate to combine different systems/group users together. The problem is that trunked systems use up many list allocations. There must be some way for GRE to add more while providing visual display. Maybe scrolling down where the display changes to show additional lists??? I think 100 lists would be enough. I really do like this object approach. It is like how Motorola does it, but we get to listen to many lists (zones) where Motorola radios get just one at a time that is also limited to 16 objects.

It looks like I'm going to use V folders to do my closed P25 searching (no CSQ) where I put all the channels of the band into scan memory and record the hits when I get them. I hope someday there is software to auto-record the found hits!

Oh well...back to programming!

Phil

 

[DaveNF2G]

I hope someday there is software to auto-record the found hits!

Depending on what you mean by "record," there are two programs that could help you.

Win500 will log hits for you.

ARC500 will record the audio and log the hits.