Some PSR-800 Questions

[ButchGone]

I have listened to a PSR-800 and liked what I heard and am now considering one. Couple questions:
If I want to monitor a multi-site P25 system can the 800 be set up where a scan list might include a couple different towers with different control channels? Or does each site have to be programmed into separate scan lists?
Also how does it handle X2 TDMA traffic? Is it like regular FDMA talk group IDs? Can the wildcard setting to search for new groups also seek out TDMA traffic? Does the display indicate TDMA or show the same for FDMA?
I want to monitor a big regional 700-800 system that's a mix of simulcast and stand alone sites and they are about to add some TDMA users.
Thank you in advance for your help.
BG..

 

[rwier]

...............................
If I want to monitor a multi-site P25 system ............................... does each site have to be programmed into separate scan lists? .....................

Some might consider this "have to" to be a God sent feature, or a "Deus ex machina", if you will!

Rob

 

[troymail]

I have listened to a PSR-800 and liked what I heard and am now considering one. Couple questions:
If I want to monitor a multi-site P25 system can the 800 be set up where a scan list might include a couple different towers with different control channels? Or does each site have to be programmed into separate scan lists?

Sites are not programmed as a scanlist.

Sites are for a system itself and contain the control channels for that/each site. You have the option of using one or more sites in a system load and you can even limit the control or other frequencies in that configuration.

Scanlists manage the talkgroups that you listen to (have programmed or locked in or out) for a given system.

In any event - you have total control over which sites your want to include -- and the lower level control (frequencies, etc.) come via the EZ Scan software.

Also how does it handle X2 TDMA traffic? Is it like regular FDMA talk group IDs? Can the wildcard setting to search for new groups also seek out TDMA traffic? Does the display indicate TDMA or show the same for FDMA?
I want to monitor a big regional 700-800 system that's a mix of simulcast and stand alone sites and they are about to add some TDMA users.

Just like on a regular subscriber radio, you as a scanner user really have no idea if the talkgroup/conversation is using FDMA or TDMA. It just happens and it generally sounds just like other digital voice.

Some have reported that the [T] indicator on the display flashes at a different rate (I can't really tell) when in TDMA mode. There are no other indicators on the display that you are hearing FDMA or TDMA.

Keep in mind that the 800 will do X2-TDMA but not full Phase II TDMA at this point.

 

[tglendye]

I'm not sure I understand. If I want to listen to 3 different control channels on a multi-site system, because they have different talk-groups associated with each site, is there a way to set a scanlist up where the scanner can scan each site?

 

[Ed_Seedhouse]

If I want to monitor a multi-site P25 system can the 800 be set up where a scan list might include a couple different towers with different control channels? Or does each site have to be programmed into separate scan lists?

Well our local area wide emergency system (CREST) transmits has 9 different antenna systems on high buildings and small mountains all over the place. It is mixed P25 (police) and analog (fire, ambulance, transit, and others) and the 800 handles it all fine.

I split it into three talk groups, one for the digital talk groups, one for transit, and one for all the other analog talk groups. I ride the bus a lot. But it also worked fine when I had it all in just one scanlist.

All you really have to do is import the system from the database. The 800 will display what site is being accessed and doesn't seem to get confused. Locally, each site uses different frequencies, though.

Ed

 

[rwier]

I'm not sure I understand. If I want to listen to 3 different control channels on a multi-site system, because they have different talk-groups associated with each site, is there a way to set a scanlist up where the scanner can scan each site?

It's not you who doesn't understand. I think the answer is yes. I've never tried it because my goals on this subject have been towards the separation as opposed to the combining. I will attempt to make an experimental ScanList later today, and post my results and methods.

Also, your question is a very difficult one to construct or phrase perfectly. I won't know, until I read YOUR comments on my results later, if I correctly understood the question, lol.

Rob

 

[W6KRU]

Rob, It sounds like he wants to create a TSYS with the multi-site option.

 

[6Paul21]

We use 5 sites in Sarasota, all with different frequencies and depending where I am in the County the radio will switch towers. The only thing is the talkgroups are the same throughout the system.

 

[jackj]

As I understand it, if you put all the local CC's in one scan list then the 800 will stay on the strongest CC and ignore the others. So you could build a scan list for each CC you want to monitor and then enable the scan lists you want to monitor. But you will probable miss some transmissions because of the time it will take the radio to scan through all the CC channels.

 

[brian]

As I understand it, the OP wants to be able to listen to more that one site (more than one active CC) on a multi-site system at a time. This is possible with the PSR-800 but requires some "tricky" (and inefficient) programming to accomplish.

If you import the system using the EZ Scan Digital software, and import multiple sites, it will put each of those sites in a single TSYS object. Because the PSR-800 only supports the Multi-site Roam option (as opposed to the Multi-site Stat option on the PSR-500/PRO-106) you have no real control over which active CC/tower site you will receive at any given time. The radio will use the Roam protocol to select the "best" tower site and scan it until its signal degrades enough to cause it to look for a new CC.

Even worse, the radio interface does NOT allow for activating/deactivating tower sites - you can only do so via the software. If it did allow activation/deactivation of tower sites through the radio interface, you could select which sites are checked for active CCs - or more importantly, which sites ARE NOT checked for active CCs. But that still won't really allow what the OP is wanting.

In order to scan multiple tower sites, you have to create multiple TSYS objects. That means duplicating all the active talkgroups for each site/sites included in each TSYS object, which is where the inefficiency comes in. How you arrange the talkgroups from each site in scan lists is flexible - you can combine like talkgroups from each TSYS into a single scan list, or you could separate them into separate scan lists, providing the ability to select sites by activating or deactivating scan lists.

The easiest way to do this is to create a TSYS object with the talkgroups you want, and then use the DUPLICATE button to duplicate the TSYS object. Then change the site information (ie control channels) in each TSYS objects as appropriate.

In my situation, I typically program 2 or 3 tower sites of a 62-site state-wide system into each TSYS object, and I typically group them by county/geographic region. So TSYS #1 has sites 1&2 from County #1, TSYS #2 has sites 3, 4, and 5 from County #2, TSYS 3 has sites 5&6 from County #3, etc. I then assign the talkgroups in each TSYS to multiple, separate scan lists, but group them into scan sets. Activating a particular scan set activates a TSYS object, which activates a set of tower sites in a TSYS object.

It's a round-about way of accomplishing what you want, but it does work.

 

[rwier]

As I understand it, the OP wants to be able to listen to more that one site (more than one active CC) on a multi-site system at a time. This is possible with the PSR-800 but requires some "tricky" (and inefficient) programming to accomplish.

If you import the system using the EZ Scan Digital software, and import multiple sites, it will put each of those sites in a single TSYS object. Because the PSR-800 only supports the Multi-site Roam option (as opposed to the Multi-site Stat option on the PSR-500/PRO-106) you have no real control over which active CC/tower site you will receive at any given time. The radio will use the Roam protocol to select the "best" tower site and scan it until its signal degrades enough to cause it to look for a new CC.

Even worse, the radio interface does NOT allow for activating/deactivating tower sites - you can only do so via the software. If it did allow activation/deactivation of tower sites through the radio interface, you could select which sites are checked for active CCs - or more importantly, which sites ARE NOT checked for active CCs. But that still won't really allow what the OP is wanting.

In order to scan multiple tower sites, you have to create multiple TSYS objects. That means duplicating all the active talkgroups for each site/sites included in each TSYS object, which is where the inefficiency comes in. How you arrange the talkgroups from each site in scan lists is flexible - you can combine like talkgroups from each TSYS into a single scan list, or you could separate them into separate scan lists, providing the ability to select sites by activating or deactivating scan lists.

The easiest way to do this is to create a TSYS object with the talkgroups you want, and then use the DUPLICATE button to duplicate the TSYS object. Then change the site information (ie control channels) in each TSYS objects as appropriate.

In my situation, I typically program 2 or 3 tower sites of a 62-site state-wide system into each TSYS object, and I typically group them by county/geographic region. So TSYS #1 has sites 1&2 from County #1, TSYS #2 has sites 3, 4, and 5 from County #2, TSYS 3 has sites 5&6 from County #3, etc. I then assign the talkgroups in each TSYS to multiple, separate scan lists, but group them into scan sets. Activating a particular scan set activates a TSYS object, which activates a set of tower sites in a TSYS object.

It's a round-about way of accomplishing what you want, but it does work.

Hi Brian,

Absolutely! Your understanding of the question is exactly the same as mine. For the RWC System, I do not consider this to be a round-about-way but a God sent solution to a major problem. It not only works, but also totally eliminates the "inter-garble, or what ever it is called.

Rob

 

[rwier]

I'm not sure I understand. If I want to listen to 3 different control channels on a multi-site system, because they have different talk-groups associated with each site, is there a way to set a scanlist up where the scanner can scan each site?

Well, this operation was no fun. I tried to “start from scratch” with a new, unused V-Scanner Folder. I thought that I was merely repeating operations that were very similar (if not exact) to operations that I had preformed before, and was currently using satisfactorily during my regular scanning.

There would seem little to gain by posting hundreds of words here describing “programming” operations that were not successful. However, the problems seem to occur when I tried to copy the new V-Scanner Folder to the radio. Three times the radio hung with error messages. Each time Windows stepped in and asked if I wanted to repair the drive (answered yes). Each time, I went back to the EZScan Software, to find out that TGID’s had disappeared from their respective Sites (just this V-Scanner Folder, Praise the Lord). When I tried to re-import (DB to EZScan) the TGID’s would not import along with their respective Sites. Three times I went to GRECOM and re-installed the EZScan Program.

Well, I finally gave up, and after some mulling over the situation, I decided to try another method. This method would be much easier, but I don’t know if it would pass the OP’s criteria.

I already was scanning individual Sites in the RWC (Maricopa County, AZ), but they were all in different ScanLists. When I’m stationary, I have only scanned two of these lists. It was a simple matter to put these two Sites (two groups of TGIDs) into a single unused ScanList (I picked #100, and renamed it TriTest). Now, I just needed to add a third Site (and it’s respective TGIDs) to “TriTest.
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I need to interject a little Philosophical “rant” into this narrative. I know that there are several “experts” that frequent the Forums that are eager to “explain” to me what I am doing wrong. They are also ready to ask me “Why are you making this so difficult?”, or any of many comments of a similar nature. I also know from experience, that the worst offenders often times do not even own the radio being discussed. Their comments are often predictable, and often appear to be the parroting of conventional wisdom, lol. I, however, prefer to respond/report to a post/question with information that I have actually witnessed, right here in front of my face. Interjection mode off, continue below, from above.
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The way I isolate the Sites is in general as follows:

I import the whole entire RWC/TRS ( I never fool with this TRS, I use it only to make “Duplicates”). Then I immediately “Duplicate” it and give it a new name. Now I can remove/delete unwanted Sites/TGIDs. I was having a problem here with the third Site. I have never actually scanned fully successfully (from my home) a third Site (ScanList for me) that was part of the RWC.
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More interjection, lol. Just creating something into the EZScan Software is no proof of success. I’m in the Forum minority here. Take this particular problem/challenge we are discussing. I need to not only create in the Software, but to also upload to the radio, and also successfully scan (hear/listen) to three Sites in a single ScanList. Just saying that it can be done, or not done, for me, is not possible. Interjection mode off, continue below, from above.
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Well, the HP (E) came through for me again. I had to analyze combinations of TGIDs and Sites to find a good third candidate for my third entry into the TriTest ScanList. I settled on Peoria PD TGIDs using the White Tank Regional Park (WTRP) Site. I made a another duplicate of the full RWC/TRS, and renamed it (WTRP) Peoria PD. Then I operated on this new Site, paring down the TGID’s to only those of the Peoria
PD and deleting all Sites except the WTRP Site. Then I assigned these TGID’s to the TriTest Scanlist. Then I sent the V-Folder to the scanner, and began scanning.

The two regular sites (A: Phx PD and B: Phx FD) were obviously very active (as usual). Not a peep from Peoria. Next, I locked out the Phx PD and the Phx FD TGIDs, leaving only the Peoria PD TGIDs open. After a while, I got a hit, then a few more, and while I am typing this report, more active yet. I imagine, about 1:00 A.M., things will get hopping in Peoria too, lol.

I have attached a screen shot of what the “TriTest” ScanList looks like. It is easy to see the three “divisions”. They have different names under “System”. They are actually all part of the RWC/TRS System, but the Software and the radio don’t know that, lol. You will have to trust me that the three “divisions” are using different Sites, respectively. Also, ScanList 2, 3, and 10, are locked out. Looking at the radio, I see only TriTest and a ROCK SOLID rarely flickering “T” (except when I hear voices, lol).

I am not sure if this result complies with your “criteria”, but regardless, this report might be found to be amusing by some, lol.

http://forums.radioreference.com/images/attach/jpg.gif


Thanks,
Rob

 

[tglendye]

Well, this operation was no fun...

Thanks,
Rob

Thanks, I appreciate your and everyone else's help. I wasn't trying to hi-jack the thread, but as I read the OP's question, I realized it was the question that had been in the back of my mind for a while.

The reason I was asking is because as I monitor a statewide system (Virginia STARS), I have noticed there are several TG's that are not active on several towers. If I am at home, for example, I may want to listen to the 3 CC's my scanner (which is PSR500/ Pro197) can decode because there are different areas of the state that each CC carries. However, while traveling, I typically have the radio set to roam and listen to the closest CC.

Off topic: I am going to buy a new vehicle in the next few months... and trying to decide what scanner to buy for it. Just checking on capabilities of the 800 (and soon to be released 900)/ HP or maybe a 600 or another 197.

 

[jackj]

My understanding is that the GRECOM PSR-800 does not scan sites or Control Channels, It scans Talk Group IDs. If you have programed in more than one CC from more than one tower, it will check the CC frequencies until it finds a CC that it can decode. Then it continues to monitor that CC looking for Talk Channel(s) that are assigned to TGs it monitors. The 800 will only switch CC when it can no longer decode the one it is monitoring.

Uniden will attempt to decode each and every CC that is programed in and isn't locked out. It then looks for TCs assigned ot the TGs it monitors. So it appears that Uniden scans both CCs and TGs.

There are some advantages to GRE's method as well as some disadvantages. With Uniden, you either have to lock out CCs you are not interested in or use an input from a GPS to enable and disable CCs. Uniden will waste time attempting to decode CCs that are marginal and follow TC assignments that it can't decode.

GRE will only switch CCs when the one it is monitoring becomes too noisy to for a solid decode. It will switch tower areas automatically without any external input. But this means that you will only be able to copy TGs on one tower at a time. There is a way around this, build a scan list for each tower and treat each like a separate system.