Southern California Edison

[MtnBiker2005]

Site 02 (937.6875 cc)(Type II) is still on the air.

 

[bcorbin]

I've got P25 control channels on

935.275 (5A1)
935.800 (5A7)
936.9625 (5A9)

All booming into the SCV this morning. I've got some errands to run - I'll try to run a dump on each of these later...

Suggestion - could we close out one of the SCE threads and post followups to the other??

 

[jlanfn]

For the short time I monitored yesterday evening, all talkgroups were TDMA and encrypted. Most were also patched together with other talkgroups.

I was trying to understand the new talkgroup numbering. Just as a pure guess, it looks like they followed the traditional conversion from Motorola Type II to P25 (i.e., divide the old talkgroup by 16), but then they slapped a "1" to the front (same as adding 10000).

For example, OPS 40 would be converted from 32624 on the old system to 12039 on the new system.

32624 / 16 = 2039
2039 + 10000 = 12039

Again, this is purely a guess.

 

[bcorbin]

Ok - here's what I've got on the three sites I can hear in the Santa Clarita Valley:

ALL: SysID: 5AA
RFSS: 001
WACN: BEE00

Site 101: NAC 5A1
935.275 - c
935.3625 - a

adjacent:
936.825 - Site 1100 TO164
936.8375 - Site 1103 TO167
935.7625 - Site 1112 TO170
935.7625 - Site 1146 TO192
936.9625 - Site 189 TO159
936.275 - Site 191 TO15B
936.8625 - Site 192 TO15C


Site 107: NAC 5A7
935.800 - c
935.8125 - a

adjacent:
936.825 - Site 1100 TO164
936.4375 - Site 1111 TO16F
936.7375 - Site 1120 TO178
935.6875 - Site 1135 TO187
936.9625 - Site 189 TO159
936.275 - Site 191 TO15B
936.300 - Site 193 TO15D


Site 089: NAC 5A9
936.275
936.9625

adjacent:
936.825 - Site 1100 TO164
935.275 - Site 1101 TO165
936.8375 - Site 1103 TO167
935.800 - Site 1107 TO16B
936.7375 - Site 1120 TO178

Interesting that none of these sites is deemed adjacent to another...

Also of note, the Frequency ID Tables included entries for 762. MHz... ??

 

[SCPD]

For the short time I monitored yesterday evening, all talkgroups were TDMA and encrypted. Most were also patched together with other talkgroups.

I was trying to understand the new talkgroup numbering. Just as a pure guess, it looks like they followed the traditional conversion from Motorola Type II to P25 (i.e., divide the old talkgroup by 16), but then they slapped a "1" to the front (same as adding 10000).

For example, OPS 40 would be converted from 32624 on the old system to 12039 on the new system.

32624 / 16 = 2039
2039 + 10000 = 12039

Again, this is purely a guess.

Encrypted? So I'm not going to be able to listen to SCE even with a Phase II scanner?

 

[Progline]

Bryan. what was the Oat Mtn. control channel(s)? i'm not hearing ANYTHING on the SCE channels in my old Pro-2055. But i'm not sure what systems I had programmed.

 

[bryan_herbert]

Progline, Oat Mtn was 001 (1) LA Simulcast Los Angeles
938.02500c 938.11250a 938.01250 938.12500 939.86250 939.90000

I went up to Lancaster this morning and Site 003 Vincent Substation near Acton is silent. It was active two weeks ago during my last trip.

 

[bcorbin]

Encrypted? So I'm not going to be able to listen to SCE even with a Phase II scanner?

Hey Smokey!

I can't speak for all the sites, but everything I heard coming through in north LA County this afternoon was in the clear... Lots and lots of routine traffic - switching, trouble tickets, and such - and no encryption whatsoever.

It was all tdma, so you'll definitely need a Phase II radio.

 

[Progline]

bcorbin, of the three you mentioned you can hear in the SCV, here in Chatsworth 935.275 comes booming in.....I'd guess this is Oat Mtn...

I can also hear well, though weaker, 936.275

I dont have P25P2 here unfortunately.

 

[bcorbin]

bcorbin, of the three you mentioned you can hear in the SCV, here in Chatsworth 935.275 comes booming in.....I'd guess this is Oat Mtn...

I can also hear well, though weaker, 936.275

I dont have P25P2 here unfortunately.

That certainly sounds reasonable... Thanks...

 

[Fireboat03]

I am picking up 936.2625mhz from the OC

 

[jlanfn]

Encrypted? So I'm not going to be able to listen to SCE even with a Phase II scanner?

I was monitoring in UniTrunker and misread the "Svc" code (and I don't have a Phase 2 scanner to check reception). It was only a patch, not encrypted.

 

[LAflyer]

Reminder - please submit to the Db.

The Moderators managed to combine the multiple discussions into this single thread.

While its encouraged everyone discuss and share your findings here in the forum, kindly also follow up with a formal submissions into the Db.
There is no guarantee Db Admins will necessarily follow and catch the information in this thread otherwise.

For info, I built sites 066, 092 and 101 in the Db. from the information posted to date.

Thanks everyone.

 

[WayneH]

I was trying to understand the new talkgroup numbering. Just as a pure guess, it looks like they followed the traditional conversion from Motorola Type II to P25 (i.e., divide the old talkgroup by 16), but then they slapped a "1" to the front (same as adding 10000).

This happens when you transition from 3600 to 9600 via SmartX. Take an existing SmartZone system, remove the Zone Controller and upgrade all core infrastructure to a P25 M core, and connect the existing 3600 sites via the SmartX box. From an over-the-air perspective (scanner or radio) you won't even know the difference. Then gradually add true P25 RF sites. Keep in mind you cannot share the same site numbers in the same zone core. Within the system (via the UNC-W web interface) where the infrastructure is defined you create individual RF sites and specify them as one or the other.

 

[bcorbin]

Ok - I've had a chance to go back over the notes I made while using Pro96Com to look at sites 089, 101 and 107....

On closer inspection, they actually DO show up in each other's adjacent-site broadcasts, as sites 189, 1101 and 1107, respectively - so, essentially, a '1' gets pre-pended to the site number and to the tower.

Site107 (0x6B) shows up as Site 1107 TO16B in the adjacent-sites list

So drawing from the adjacent-site information I posted the other day, I think we're looking at:


Site 89 - 936.9625 (936.275)
Site 91 - 936.275
Site 92 - 936.8625
Site 93 - 936.300
Site 100 - 936.825
Site 101 - 935.275 (935.3625)
Site 103 - 936.8375
Site 107 - 935.800 (935.8125)
Site 111 - 936.4375
Site 112 - 935.7625
Site 120 - 936.7375
Site 135 - 935.6875
Site 146 - 935.7625

(I believe the database may be appending a 1- to the site number - eg 1-107)

 

[WayneH]

(I believe the database may be appending a 1- to the site number - eg 1-107)

Correct. That's the Zone number. As part of the P25 protocol there's always a Zone number transmitted over the air in the control channel stream and the radios always looks for it. With each Zone you can have your own set of site numbers (1-020, 2-020, etc up to 7 zones). Each Zone will have its own "Core" that's responsible for call setup and processing (i.e., its own zone controllers) among many other things.

 

[bcorbin]

Correct. That's the Zone number. As part of the P25 protocol there's always a Zone number transmitted over the air in the control channel stream and the radios always looks for it. With each Zone you can have your own set of site numbers (1-020, 2-020, etc up to 7 zones). Each Zone will have its own "Core" that's responsible for call setup and processing (i.e., its own zone controllers) among many other things.

Ah - interesting. More so, because I've never seen anything like a zone number on any of the P25 systems I've studied so far. Granted, the PSR-600 doesn't show it on the trunking diagnostics display, Pro96Com doesn't display it - I would have been oblivious had it not been for the leading 1's on the adjacent site broadcasts. I'm guessing this is something you've got to pull out of the packet dumps from the CC?

So - most systems, being a lot smaller than SCE's, don't make use of zones? Here, I'm thinking of systems where say, site number 011 shows up in adjacent-site lists as '011'. I'm guessing a flag in the CC stream tells the subscriber whether adjacent site '189' is site "189" or "1-089"?

Thanks Wayne...

 

[bcorbin]

For the short time I monitored yesterday evening, all talkgroups were TDMA and encrypted. Most were also patched together with other talkgroups.

I was trying to understand the new talkgroup numbering. Just as a pure guess, it looks like they followed the traditional conversion from Motorola Type II to P25 (i.e., divide the old talkgroup by 16), but then they slapped a "1" to the front (same as adding 10000).

For example, OPS 40 would be converted from 32624 on the old system to 12039 on the new system.

32624 / 16 = 2039
2039 + 10000 = 12039

Again, this is purely a guess.

I created a TG list from this, so far I've got the following (old system equivalent, for reference):

I've got "Vincent" on 12603 (41648 - Vincent Sub)
"Rector" on 12599 (41584 - Rector Sub)
"Vincent" on 12605 (41680 - Pardee Sub)
"Eastern" on 12069 (33104 - Ops Thousand Oaks)

Someone with a little more familiarity with the system will have to tell us whether that makes any sense 8*)

 

[kma371]

Picked up a site from my location in the Central Valley. Displayed as Site 1, 936.9125. It's most likely coming from Kern/Fresno County area. Was coming in real weak. It was added to the DB

 

[bcorbin]

I'm sitting in W.LA at the moment, picking up SCE traffic on the system I programmed in as Site 1-100 on the basis of the adjacent-site broadcasts I logged earlier. I don't have the right gear on me to verify that this is indeed the correct site number - could someone check 936.825 and report back??