SpaceX Gulf of Mexico Slashdown, comms perhaps?

spacellamaman

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Any thoughts on this folks? Perhaps just run the old shuttle freqs, but presume most will be outside of what is normally receivable? This will be a new monitoring target for me and so I don't have any experience to inform me of what might be worthwhile trying.

 

ind224

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Bueller? I keep hoping someone will post confirmed 2 gig downlink freqs and anything beeps boops or squawks heard on 400.5 MHZ.
 

spacellamaman

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Bueller? yeah for real.

yeah it's interesting how, when reading various histories of the various space programs, if tech specs of comms freqs can be found, they often are the same ones used today in some fashion.

not that it did me any good in this case.

Theyre probably using NEXTEL. budget cuts and all, ya know
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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I have the old EVA Shuttle freqs on scan right now. My antenna is not optimized but I have an LNA with BPF and lots of gain.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Well nothing heard, not even on Guard. So it seems they are in the 400 MHz range now?

I am hearing foreign language through the milsats on 260.579 MHz FM however,
 

batdude

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from what I could see / hear during the reentry feed ---- the astronauts had a satellite phone (assume to be either INMARSAT or IRIDIUM) - this was mentioned during an interview - that they were calling people kinda randomly..... I do not know of any actual FACT-BASED information on exactly what band/flavor of radio they used for comms between the capsule and the recovery ship (e.g., VHF/UHF FM/DMR, etc). Would it be smart to have VHF Marine? Yes. Do they? No idea. It did seem to me that comms from dragon were being relayed by the recovery ship (via INMARSAT - a guess since Iridium is fairly low data rate) to the SpaceX teams in California and at KSC - and again, just my opinion, it seemed like the comms had the audio quality of DMR.

as a side note..... we can't even really figure out how the two different SpaceX DMR systems are utilized... they have both a UHF and a 900 MHz DMR CAP+ system here at KSC.....

my opinion is that the old shuttle UHF freqs are not used in any way by SpaceX. That doesn't mean that Boeing doesn't / won't use them for Starliner...again, no idea.

I do have a gut feeling that there won't be 20 private boats surrounding the recovery ship next time.....

this image was posted in the FL Scanner FB group. I do not vouch for it's accuracy.

1598095868276.png

doug
 

spacellamaman

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from what I could see / hear during the reentry feed ---- the astronauts had a satellite phone (assume to be either INMARSAT or IRIDIUM) - this was mentioned during an interview - that they were calling people kinda randomly..... I do not know of any actual FACT-BASED information on exactly what band/flavor of radio they used for comms between the capsule and the recovery ship (e.g., VHF/UHF FM/DMR, etc). Would it be smart to have VHF Marine? Yes. Do they? No idea. It did seem to me that comms from dragon were being relayed by the recovery ship (via INMARSAT - a guess since Iridium is fairly low data rate) to the SpaceX teams in California and at KSC - and again, just my opinion, it seemed like the comms had the audio quality of DMR.

as a side note..... we can't even really figure out how the two different SpaceX DMR systems are utilized... they have both a UHF and a 900 MHz DMR CAP+ system here at KSC.....

my opinion is that the old shuttle UHF freqs are not used in any way by SpaceX. That doesn't mean that Boeing doesn't / won't use them for Starliner...again, no idea.

I do have a gut feeling that there won't be 20 private boats surrounding the recovery ship next time.....

this image was posted in the FL Scanner FB group. I do not vouch for it's accuracy.

View attachment 90277

doug
all very interesting, thank you for posting.

"my opinion is that the old shuttle UHF freqs are not used in any way by SpaceX.:"

seems reasonable, i just figured having zero bright ideas otherwise it was going to be my best bet, a bet with unfavorable odds.

20 boats at recovery eh? that's funny. we can make a booster land vertically, no prob. crowd control?....ehhhhh.....
 

spacellamaman

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How is a private company supposed to regulate international waters? Is there anything SpaceX can do to control this?
how is a private company allowed to fire off dangerous dual-use intercontinental ballistic missle type rockets from cape canaveral? i know they were super-pissed when they caught me out there.

if they can do it for apollo they can do it now. i tend to believe there was a bit of miscommunication here as to who was supposed to do what.

"Private!!! Get on that FIFTY!!!"
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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How is a private company supposed to regulate international waters? Is there anything SpaceX can do to control this?
They could announce the splashdown will be at a spot 50 miles away and then play switcherooo. Sorry folks weather prevented splashdown at XY, we had to move it.
 

royldean

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how is a private company allowed to fire off dangerous dual-use intercontinental ballistic missle type rockets from cape canaveral? i know they were super-pissed when they caught me out there.
That was within the confines of a federally (US) controlled launch site AND airspace. The US federal government has no jurisdiction of airspace or water (surface or below) in international waters.

if they can do it for apollo they can do it now. i tend to believe there was a bit of miscommunication here as to who was supposed to do what.
2 things here.

1 - Apollo was a government mission, and thus had government involvement in splashdown. As far as I know, there is no maritime law preventing small boats from approaching naval warships, but those warships DO have the right to protect themselves if they feel threatened. I suppose there is nothing preventing SpaceX from carrying some 50 BMGs on their recovery vessals, but good luck defending themselves in US court as they are US flagged (and likely are the small ships that approach them).

2- Apollo landing zones were 100s of miles from populated areas (at least, populated enough to support Joe Sixpack on his 20 foot Whaler). SpaceX's landing zones are barely over the horizon from major populated areas (where recreational boating is rampant).

Again, i do not see anything that SpaceX can do.....
 

royldean

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I'm not arguing with anybody... I'm simply asking a question:

"What can SpaceX legally do to keep recreational boaters away from capsules that land in international waters?"
 

spacellamaman

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"What can SpaceX legally do to keep recreational boaters away from capsules that land in international waters?"
1
I suppose there is nothing preventing SpaceX from carrying some 50 BMGs on their recovery vessals,
but good luck defending themselves in US court as they are US flagged (and likely are the small ships that approach them).
The US federal government has no jurisdiction of airspace or water (surface or below) in international waters.
2
Apollo was a government mission, and thus had government involvement in splashdown.
The US federal government has no jurisdiction of airspace or water (surface or below) in international waters.
Apollo landing zones were 100s of miles from populated areas
Territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,[2] is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22 km; 14 mi) from the baseline

 

royldean

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i'll quit the field with my final statement, that I simply find it hard to believe.
I guess not, huh?

Territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,[2] is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22 km; 14 mi) from the baseline

Still no answers. Let me help you out:

1) SpaceX could recover in international waters, and could "scare off" non-related personnel by shooting a 50 BMG over their bows. If they went through the legwork of getting tax stamps, they could also use machine guns and/or destructive devices (rocket propelled munitions, calibers over .5", etc.). However if they are US flagged vessels, they'll have to deal with US courts when somebody gets hurt or property is damaged (or even if any US law is broken), as technically they have to follow US laws while in international waters if flagged in the US. Chances of implementing this: 0%.

2) SpaceX could recover in US waters (as you state, at most 14 miles from shore). They would need permits (likely not a problem), probably from both the FAA and Coast Guard. This is a much more likely scenario, however my concern is that even at 14 miles, they are getting close to populated areas. But then again, they've landed kerosene and oxygen bombs at KSC as recently as this week... so maybe this is their best option.
 

spacellamaman

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I guess not, huh?



Still no answers. Let me help you out:

1) SpaceX could recover in international waters, and could "scare off" non-related personnel by shooting a 50 BMG over their bows. If they went through the legwork of getting tax stamps, they could also use machine guns and/or destructive devices (rocket propelled munitions, calibers over .5", etc.). However if they are US flagged vessels, they'll have to deal with US courts when somebody gets hurt or property is damaged (or even if any US law is broken), as technically they have to follow US laws while in international waters if flagged in the US. Chances of implementing this: 0%.

2) SpaceX could recover in US waters (as you state, at most 14 miles from shore). They would need permits (likely not a problem), probably from both the FAA and Coast Guard. This is a much more likely scenario, however my concern is that even at 14 miles, they are getting close to populated areas. But then again, they've landed kerosene and oxygen bombs at KSC as recently as this week... so maybe this is their best option.
you've convinced me. i was wrong all along.
 
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