SPD/Moto Smartzone questions?

[AlmostHandy]

Hello folks. I have a question, and I'm not sure if it applies specifically to the SPD, or if it applies to all Smartzone equipped police agencies.

Last night, I heard dispatch about shots fired up in the U-District, and a description of a car with three guys in it. An officer (3N01) responded quickly, found the car in questioned, and followed it. All the while, the dispatcher is arranging backup from other local officers. 3N01 followed the car on I5 and when they got downtown, 5 or so different units said they were with behind 3N01, and the 3N01 said he was going to light the car up after the light turned green. The dispatcher said she copied, and that she was restricting the air.
After that, there was no voice traffic at all from North Precinct. There was a beep that happened every 3 or so seconds on the dispatch TGID, but nothing from the tac channels at all.
After about 5 minutes, the 3N01 said that he had 3 in custody and was under control. Dispatcher received and said that she was removing the air restrictions, and that normal traffic will resume.


My questions. What happens when a dispatcher restricts the air? Is this something exclusive to a trunked network? Are further communications encrypted? Are they just blocked? It seems unlikely that they would just flip a switch that made every other North Cop's radio stop working. What was the beeping noise? Could the Cops that were on that call still communicate with dispatch somehow? Maybe they switch over to a secret channel that I'm not aware of?

Sorry, I'll stop guessing.

Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me. Since I don't really know what I'm talking about, my search strings were too vague for google to be of any service.

 

[rodentkj]

My questions. What happens when a dispatcher restricts the air?
The dispatcher sends out the tone and then announces that the air is closed and state the reason. Normally they will state the unit, the location and why the air is closed. Those 3 tones will make any officers ears perk up the radio. Which is the whole point of them. So now this means no one is to use the radio except for the units that are involved with the incident that the air has been closed for. Other officers, who are not involved with the incident, will switch to a different channel for there normal traffic stuff. This procedure is standard for all police agencies here in Snohomish County and likely practiced the same way all over.

Is this something exclusive to a trunked network?
Nope. This procedure has been in place long before the TRS was implemented.

Are further communications encrypted?
Not sure what you mean by encrypted but I've never heard of a channel switch to being encrypted when the air was closed.

Are they just blocked?
Nope. No one is blocked.

What was the beeping noise?
The beep is to let other officers know the air is closed just in case they did not hear ithe incident from the start. Or possibly just coming on shift and turning their radio on. When the officer hears the beeps, they know the air is closed and will switch to the "other" channel for radio traffic. Note that a lot of times the officers will ask for the tones (beeps as you call it) to be shut off as for they want the element of surprise. In this case its common to hear someone jump on the radio with other traffic not related to the incident that the air was closed for. And the dispatcher will inform them the air is closed and to "switch". Meaning switch to that "other" channel for radio talk.

Could the Cops that were on that call still communicate with dispatch somehow?
Absolutly. Any officer can still use the radio.

Maybe they switch over to a secret channel that I'm not aware of?
No. The officer(s) that are on the call that the air is closed for will stay on that channel. If they ask for the air its for a reason and there is no time to start switching channels. The other officers not working that incidet will swich to the "other" channel.

Once the incident is over, the officers will tell dispatch the air can be opened and then the dispatcher will go to that "other" channel and let the other officers, that were not working the incident, that they can swich back to the main channel.

Here is a good example of closing the air and hearing the tones when working an incident. This also shows why you would not have to want to mess with switching channels when the air is closed.

www.daronjohnson.com/miscellaneous/WA_Lynnwood_SCSO_Shooting_021008.mp3

Hope this helps.

 

[tmfok7]

Essentially what they did was a Felony Car Stop! Anytime any agency does that, all other routine radio traffic is suspended on that Channel, or in this case TG, except for units involved in the stop! And they won't talk , unless something goes wrong, till all suspects are in custody! The tones you hear are there to notify all officers that may not have heard the original traffic, that they are in "emergency traffic only" status. Most departments have an alternate plan that if there is other routine traffic that needs to be handled at the same time, then they will change to some other channel or TG or wait till the situation is under control.

 

[AlmostHandy]

Far out, solid and right on. Those were awesome explanations, and it totally makes sense now.

Thank you!!!

 

[AtomicTaco]

You don't happen to remember what the cross street on those shots fired were, do you? I didn't see anything relevant that SFD responded to.

And another question on this, since I don't listen to PD much any more; do the other units go to their respective TAC?

 

[AlmostHandy]

Yeah, it was outside the Irish Emigrant Bar, just south of 55th on U-Way.

I didn't hear any communication on any tac channels.

 

[rodentkj]

And another question on this, since I don't listen to PD much any more; do the other units go to their respective TAC?

Yes. Or whatever the department happens to call it. SCSO refers to all there 2nd TG's as "TAC". And the main TG as "Main". But I've also heard it called "Channel 2".

And I think Everett switches to what they call their "Data" channel. Which happens to be the TG that all the officers switch to when they want to run a name or reg.

 

[lowboy654]

Yes. Or whatever the department happens to call it. SCSO refers to all there 2nd TG's as "TAC". And the main TG as "Main". But I've also heard it called "Channel 2".

And I think Everett switches to what they call their "Data" channel. Which happens to be the TG that all the officers switch to when they want to run a name or reg.

or go to 3 car to car 1 is main 2 is data and 3 or at times 4 is car to car for everett.

 

[tmfok7]

And another question on this, since I don't listen to PD much any more; do the other units go to their respective TAC?

If you are talking about the other precincts, then "no", they wouldn't/shouldn't...unless they had their own incident going on that required similar restrictions.

Another note to this, you will hear this same thing from time to time when officers are searching a building and have reason to believe suspects may be inside. In this case, you may hear the tone go on for a long time with no traffic until they advise they are clear the building and tell dispatch "you can unrestrict"!

 

[AlmostHandy]

Do they do that so their own radios won't make noise? Wouldn't the beeping give them away as much as the voice traffic? Are they worried about crooks with scanners?

 

[AtomicTaco]

Do they do that so their own radios won't make noise? Wouldn't the beeping give them away as much as the voice traffic? Are they worried about crooks with scanners?

Don't say that last one too loud--we don't want to give the captains a reason to beg for encryption. Two reasons why they probably don't care so much if the crooks have scanners: 1) It's a felony if a scanner aids in the commission of a crime. If they catch you doing something bad, you're going down big time. 2) Remember how hard it was the first time you programmed your scanner?
If they don't want to be heard I'm sure they all have some form of headsets; maybe not on them all the time, but at least they carry them all in their cars. Patrol's job isn't really a surprise attack--they usually want their presence known.
If it's really a surprise attack, the officers will secure the perimeter and call in SWAT and let them take over.

 

[tmfok7]

Next time you watch cops, pay attention to the little curley cord that goes to their ear (right or left, their choice!) Most of them wear a ear piece so they can hear the radio and the other people around them can't... Once and awhile, you will hear officers want the channel restricted but no tone.

 

[kellykeeton]

Don't say that last one too loud--we don't want to give the captains a reason to beg for encryption. Two reasons why they probably don't care so much if the crooks have scanners: 1) It's a felony if a scanner aids in the commission of a crime. If they catch you doing something bad, you're going down big time. 2) Remember how hard it was the first time you programmed your scanner?
If they don't want to be heard I'm sure they all have some form of headsets; maybe not on them all the time, but at least they carry them all in their cars. Patrol's job isn't really a surprise attack--they usually want their presence known.
If it's really a surprise attack, the officers will secure the perimeter and call in SWAT and let them take over.

like Taco Said, the last thing police want is to surprise anyone in a "invasion" the first tactic to screw with bad guys is mental. So the louder and more of them it seems the better.

SWAT normally wont surprise people either, if swat is there chances are guns are already pointed. swat also sometimes use a 2nd radio system patched or encrypted as they will give away life threatening information on the air.

as for the sneaky stuff like steakouts and things like that, typically this is done on a random tac channel or cell phone use or the detective unit will have a special simplex radio with a patch to dispatch, as its not regular patrol police that will do a steakout. (as mentioned)



as for the criminal thing, as taco said its a felony to use a radio in a crime, but that said when was the last time you met a smart crook? if your breaking the law and use the radio to hear when someone calls 911 on you your 1) doing something stupid as you got 911 called on you 2) still leave behind a lot of evidence

consider a bank robbery, if you break in and have a scanner you hear when the alarm will go off to the police, but you only have 4 min to grab and go. what crime can you commit? If you do rob the bank and run, you use the radio to ....find the police? police normally only give location on how far you are but with news choppers and public 911 calling you cant run forever.

police radios work well on movies but not so realistic in real life sure here and there people pull it off, but its not a common problem.

before i closed this thread i looked for news of scanner-crooks check this out, guys had a scanner but couldn't commit the crime because of police, so in the end keeps the bad guy better behaved!
http://enclave-nashville.blogspot.com/2009/01/crime-alert-burglars-use-police-scanner.html