SQF - Sequoia National Forest

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jbaker6953

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Mar 2, 2008
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Hi all. I just got back from a trip to the SQF for the first time since acquiring my own BK Digital. While I was visiting with an employee, I noticed that their radio was picking up some conversations I was not. I had programmed SQF as described on RR, but there was a lot of traffic I was missing. The person I was speaking with, upon seeing my BK, asked, "are you programming in Sequoia?" I replied, "Yes, but I think my admin channel isn't right." They then produced a frequency list which appears as follows:

Code:
SQF Radio Channels - Group 4

Channel #	Tone		Rx		Tx		Description
1		8		168.6750	168.6750	SQF Direct
2		1,2,12(3)	168.6750	170.5750	SQF Repeated
3		8		168.7750	168.7750	SQF Fire Direct
4		1,2,12(3)	168.7750	170.6000	SQF Fire Repeated
5		8		168.1750	168.1750	SQF Admin
6		8		164.7500	164.2500	NPS Front Country
7		8		171.7500	172.5000	NPS Backcountry
8		8		171.4750	169.8750	SNF Admin
9		8		172.2250	169.9250	SNF Fire
10		8		163.7125	163.7125	Share Net
11		8		164.1500	164.1500	R5 Project Net
12		8		170.0000	170.0000	R5 Air-Ground
13		8		168.0500	168.0500	NIFC Tac 1
14		8		168.2000	168.2000	NIFC Tac 2
These frequencies appeared to be correct. I knew because, contrary to the custom on other forests I have known, SQF refers to their channels by number only rather than by its description. Someone would say, "Porterville, Patrol 31 on 11." Those numbers seemed to line up with the channels I had programmed. Anyway, the only thing that perplexed me was that I could not hit any repeaters on channel 4 - with RR's input frequency or with the input on the list I was given. I could hit several repeaters on channel 2, but not any on channel 4. Is anyone familiar with the comm plan of SQF that might help me put my mind at ease as to why I was unable to hit any repeaters on SQF Fire Net (I tried P25 and analog)? Rest assured I have no plans to interfere with fire comms, but it bugs me that something is missing in my understanding of their setup.
 
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silverspy

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Jan 30, 2003
Messages
246
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Portland,Oregon
Sequoia NF input frequency.

I noticed that Cleveland NF recently changed the input of their Forest Net from 170.500 to 171.425. I know that several Region 5 forests have changed their input frequencies in the past several years, so maybe the Sequoia has also done this. Just a thought. I know that many of the R4 forests have inputs and outputs that are totally different than the original plans show.
 

JayMojave

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Location
Mojave Ca
Also for the Sequoia area around the Caliente Fire listen in on these frequencies for the Air Tanker traffic. 123.975, 135.975, 168.675, 172.6125 and 172.8125

Jay in the Mojave
 

Colton25

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Messages
771
Hi all. I just got back from a trip to the SQF for the first time since acquiring my own BK Digital. While I was visiting with an employee, I noticed that their radio was picking up some conversations I was not. I had programmed SQF as described on RR, but there was a lot of traffic I was missing. The person I was speaking with, upon seeing my BK, asked, "are you programming in Sequoia?" I replied, "Yes, but I think my admin channel isn't right." They then produced a frequency list which appears as follows:

Code:
SQF Radio Channels - Group 4

Channel #	Tone		Rx		Tx		Description
1		8		168.6750	168.6750	SQF Direct
2		1,2,12(3)	168.6750	170.5750	SQF Repeated
3		8		168.7750	168.7750	SQF Fire Direct
4		1,2,12(3)	168.7750	170.6000	SQF Fire Repeated
5		8		168.1750	168.1750	SQF Admin
6		8		164.7500	164.2500	NPS Front Country
7		8		171.7500	172.5000	NPS Backcountry
8		8		171.4750	169.8750	SNF Admin
9		8		172.2250	169.9250	SNF Fire
10		8		163.7125	163.7125	Share Net
11		8		164.1500	164.1500	R5 Project Net
12		8		170.0000	170.0000	R5 Air-Ground
13		8		168.0500	168.0500	NIFC Tac 1
14		8		168.2000	168.2000	NIFC Tac 2
These frequencies appeared to be correct. I knew because, contrary to the custom on other forests I have known, SQF refers to their channels by number only rather than by its description. Someone would say, "Porterville, Patrol 31 on 11." Those numbers seemed to line up with the channels I had programmed. Anyway, the only thing that perplexed me was that I could not hit any repeaters on channel 4 - with RR's input frequency or with the input on the list I was given. I could hit several repeaters on channel 2, but not any on channel 4. Is anyone familiar with the comm plan of SQF that might help me put my mind at ease as to why I was unable to hit any repeaters on SQF Fire Net (I tried P25 and analog)? Rest assured I have no plans to interfere with fire comms, but it bugs me that something is missing in my understanding of their setup.
What's the difference between SQF and SNF?
 

SCPD

QRT
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Location
Virginia
The public land south of Yosemite National Park can confuse some people. On the west side of Yosemite NP and south of the Merced River is the north end of the Sierra National Forest (SNF). South of Yosemite the eastern boundary of the Sierra borders the Inyo National Forest (INF) and includes most of the San Joaquin River watershed, with the exception of the southern most reach of the South Fork of the San Joaquin River located in Kings Canyon National Park. The Sierra borders King Canyon and the Sequoia National Forest on the south with the major landmark being the Kings River. The Hume Lake Ranger District of the Sequoia National Forest is located around the Grant Grove area of Sequoia National Park.

Sequoia and King Canyon National Parks are administered as one park and their 3 letter identifier is (KNP) and in internal National Park Service (NPS) lingo is known as "SEKI" for SEquoia-KIngs. The remained of the Sequoia National Forest (SQF) is located south of the southern boundary of KNP. Here the two major watersheds are the Kern and Tule Rivers. The confusing part of all of this is that a large portion of the Sequoia National Forest was designated as "Sequoia National Monument" in the late 1990's. It is not managed by the NPS, it is managed by the U.S. Forest Service. This monument designates, for purposes of additional protection for Giant Sequoia trees, lands located on the Sequoia National Forest. These lands have been a part of that forest since the 1890-1910 time period.

The Forest Service administers a number of National Monuments, the BLM some additional and even the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service manages one. The bulk of the National Monuments are managed by the NPS. All 4 of these agencies also manage National Recreation Areas. National Monuments differ from National Parks in that a National Park must be designated by the Congress in a bill signed by the president. National Monuments may be designated in the same way or by executive order of the president. National Parks offer a bit more protection than National Monuments.

All of this can be confusing to the public, who, on average, don't understand the difference between the NPS and USFS since they both manage "National" whatevers. These two agencies are frequently lumped together by the public. When state parks are thrown in people get even more confused. Some think that the NPS and USFS are state agencies even though they both manage lands with the word "National" in them. The BLM is as often confused with either of these agencies as its jurisdiction is usually in the desert or the high plains. BLM lands frequently adjoin National Parks and National Forests.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service manages the National Wildlife Refuge system and is the lead agency designated for enforcing the Endangered Species Act of 1973. They also are tasked with managing migratory birds, those that cross state lines during their yearly journey north and south. People confuse this agency with the state wildlife/fish/game agencies.

Often people confuse Cal Fire with the U.S. Forest Service and perhaps that will lessen since the agency is no longer known by its real name that has the word "forestry" in it. An aggravating California expression is to call the U.S. Forest Service "the forestry." The forestry what? Do we call the U.S. Geological Survey, "the geology?" Unlike mid-west and eastern states the State of California has less than 5 "State Forests" so there isn't much opportunity to mix those up.

I've had people come up to me and say things such as "Boy, Arnold really cut you guys back, didn't he?" When I replied that we didn't take our orders from the Governator a confused face resulted. Another time I woman came up to me on the Kaibab National Forest very angry about something she had experienced in a campground somewhere west of Prescott and east of Lake Havasu. I tried to determine what and whose campground was involved and she shouted at me "it was rangers! "Don't try to weasel out of this."

I know this was a mountain more of information than you asked, however, so many people get the agencies, and lands they manage, so mixed up that they don't know what frequencies to look for when trying to listen to what is going on with a given piece of land. Some people reading this thread might be helped by all of this.
 

Kirk

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Messages
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Never heard anyone call it "the forestry." But I might have heard "US Forest Circus." :)
 

Colton25

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Messages
771
The public land south of Yosemite National Park can confuse some people. On the west side of Yosemite NP and south of the Merced River is the north end of the Sierra National Forest (SNF). South of Yosemite the eastern boundary of the Sierra borders the Inyo National Forest (INF) and includes most of the San Joaquin River watershed, with the exception of the southern most reach of the South Fork of the San Joaquin River located in Kings Canyon National Park. The Sierra borders King Canyon and the Sequoia National Forest on the south with the major landmark being the Kings River. The Hume Lake Ranger District of the Sequoia National Forest is located around the Grant Grove area of Sequoia National Park.

Sequoia and King Canyon National Parks are administered as one park and their 3 letter identifier is (KNP) and in internal National Park Service (NPS) lingo is known as "SEKI" for SEquoia-KIngs. The remained of the Sequoia National Forest (SQF) is located south of the southern boundary of KNP. Here the two major watersheds are the Kern and Tule Rivers. The confusing part of all of this is that a large portion of the Sequoia National Forest was designated as "Sequoia National Monument" in the late 1990's. It is not managed by the NPS, it is managed by the U.S. Forest Service. This monument designates, for purposes of additional protection for Giant Sequoia trees, lands located on the Sequoia National Forest. These lands have been a part of that forest since the 1890-1910 time period.

The Forest Service administers a number of National Monuments, the BLM some additional and even the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service manages one. The bulk of the National Monuments are managed by the NPS. All 4 of these agencies also manage National Recreation Areas. National Monuments differ from National Parks in that a National Park must be designated by the Congress in a bill signed by the president. National Monuments may be designated in the same way or by executive order of the president. National Parks offer a bit more protection than National Monuments.

All of this can be confusing to the public, who, on average, don't understand the difference between the NPS and USFS since they both manage "National" whatevers. These two agencies are frequently lumped together by the public. When state parks are thrown in people get even more confused. Some think that the NPS and USFS are state agencies even though they both manage lands with the word "National" in them. The BLM is as often confused with either of these agencies as its jurisdiction is usually in the desert or the high plains. BLM lands frequently adjoin National Parks and National Forests.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service manages the National Wildlife Refuge system and is the lead agency designated for enforcing the Endangered Species Act of 1973. They also are tasked with managing migratory birds, those that cross state lines during their yearly journey north and south. People confuse this agency with the state wildlife/fish/game agencies.

Often people confuse Cal Fire with the U.S. Forest Service and perhaps that will lessen since the agency is no longer known by its real name that has the word "forestry" in it. An aggravating California expression is to call the U.S. Forest Service "the forestry." The forestry what? Do we call the U.S. Geological Survey, "the geology?" Unlike mid-west and eastern states the State of California has less than 5 "State Forests" so there isn't much opportunity to mix those up.

I've had people come up to me and say things such as "Boy, Arnold really cut you guys back, didn't he?" When I replied that we didn't take our orders from the Governator a confused face resulted. Another time I woman came up to me on the Kaibab National Forest very angry about something she had experienced in a campground somewhere west of Prescott and east of Lake Havasu. I tried to determine what and whose campground was involved and she shouted at me "it was rangers! "Don't try to weasel out of this."

I know this was a mountain more of information than you asked, however, so many people get the agencies, and lands they manage, so mixed up that they don't know what frequencies to look for when trying to listen to what is going on with a given piece of land. Some people reading this thread might be helped by all of this.
I guess my real question is, does SQF fire and SNF fire get the same dispatch? Or are the dispatches on separate frequencies?
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Hi all. I just got back from a trip to the SQF for the first time since acquiring my own BK Digital. While I was visiting with an employee, I noticed that their radio was picking up some conversations I was not. I had programmed SQF as described on RR, but there was a lot of traffic I was missing. The person I was speaking with, upon seeing my BK, asked, "are you programming in Sequoia?" I replied, "Yes, but I think my admin channel isn't right." They then produced a frequency list which appears as follows:

Code:
SQF Radio Channels - Group 4

Channel #	Tone		Rx		Tx		Description
1		8		168.6750	168.6750	SQF Direct
2		1,2,12(3)	168.6750	170.5750	SQF Repeated
3		8		168.7750	168.7750	SQF Fire Direct
4		1,2,12(3)	168.7750	170.6000	SQF Fire Repeated
5		8		168.1750	168.1750	SQF Admin
6		8		164.7500	164.2500	NPS Front Country
7		8		171.7500	172.5000	NPS Backcountry
8		8		171.4750	169.8750	SNF Admin
9		8		172.2250	169.9250	SNF Fire
10		8		163.7125	163.7125	Share Net
11		8		164.1500	164.1500	R5 Project Net
12		8		170.0000	170.0000	R5 Air-Ground
13		8		168.0500	168.0500	NIFC Tac 1
14		8		168.2000	168.2000	NIFC Tac 2
These frequencies appeared to be correct. I knew because, contrary to the custom on other forests I have known, SQF refers to their channels by number only rather than by its description. Someone would say, "Porterville, Patrol 31 on 11." Those numbers seemed to line up with the channels I had programmed. Anyway, the only thing that perplexed me was that I could not hit any repeaters on channel 4 - with RR's input frequency or with the input on the list I was given. I could hit several repeaters on channel 2, but not any on channel 4. Is anyone familiar with the comm plan of SQF that might help me put my mind at ease as to why I was unable to hit any repeaters on SQF Fire Net (I tried P25 and analog)? Rest assured I have no plans to interfere with fire comms, but it bugs me that something is missing in my understanding of their setup.
Most of this appears to be correct. The project net is now 168.6625. The admin net does include repeaters, remote bases linked by microwave are, although some might be linked by 400 MHz. Tone 8 is needed to access the remote bases on admin. This tone may also be used to access remote bases on channels 1 and 3 also. The first channel pairs are called the "Emergency Net."

I'm surprised to hear that the Sequoia is only using numbers when referring to their channels. The first five channels would be the only ones, beside the BLM channels, that are used to call Porterville, so "Sequoia, Patrol 31 on 11" would not be used. Channel 11 as you show it is Project Net and base stations cannot use it. Tone 11 is the Breckenridge repeater, are you sure you heard a unit call Porterville on project net?

Changes to repeater input frequencies on VHF will be occurring over the next several years to conform with NTIA direction. After narrowbanding was initiated around 2005 federal UHF systems changed to having the lower of a frequency pair be the repeater output (or downlink) and the higher the repeater input (or uplink). This situation is reversed for the federal VHF so the repeater output (downlink) is to be the higher of the two frequencies and the repeater input (uplink) is to be the lower of the two. This is the opposite of the current configuration on most USFS, NPS, BLM & USFWS systems. It would seem the simplest way to accomplish the NTIA direction would be to flip-flop each pair, but I don't know if that is possible when other agencies and interference are considered. I heard this from one source about a year ago and I don't know the current status of this effort or if it is still in the works at all.

If a change has been made to one or both of the input frequencies since last year I'm not aware of it yet. I should be getting a line on this in the next couple of weeks. If the fire net's input frequency was changed over the winter that would fully explain the inability to key up any repeaters on it. The list you were given looks like it is old and any change in frequencies that have occurred since last year would not show up on it. The project net frequency was changed at least 2-3 years ago allowing me to conclude the list is not current.

As for not receiving the same transmissions as a nearby radio there is one possibility. In marginal conditions, which can be defined as anything outside of a city, a signal may only capture one receiver in a group of them located adjacent to each other. I've been on small fires where there might be a couple of engines, a dozed tender and a patrol unit or two, many with the external speakers turned on. Then a bunch of us might be scattered about doing mop up each carrying a handheld. The reception of the dispatcher many jump randomly between receivers and often one receiver at a time. It may change the next moment a be heard on several handhelds and mobiles at once. Most of the time it the handhelds that do this and not the better powered mobiles with a ground plane at the base of the antennas. I don't know if this has changed as a result of narrowbanding, but do know that reception in much more marginal as a result of it. Was the antenna on your radio identical with that of the employee you were standing near?

A couple of questions. First, do you work for an agency that is authorized to transmit on USFS frequencies? Second, where did you get the digital model King and how much did it cost you.? I've replaced my narrowband King about a year ago and it didn't cost much. The jump to the digital model was over five times the price.
 

SCPD

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Location
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I guess my real question is, does SQF fire and SNF fire get the same dispatch? Or are the dispatches on separate frequencies?
SNF dispatches from Clovis, near Fresno and SQF from Porterville. If there is a boundary fire each dispatcher puts one out and a decision is made at that time whose net the fire will be on. The boundary between the two is at the Kings River and it is one heck of a deep canyon. Delilah Lookout is located on the south side of the canyon on the Sequoia, but the people there monitor the Sierra NF also. The canyon is so steep and deep that both forests have trouble accessing much of it. This is the only place where the SQF and SNF border each other and fires north and south of the Kings River might be visible to people on both forests they don't really have anything to do with each other. Shifting resources between the two forests involves considerable distance and time. Sending and receiving resources from/to the Hume Lake Ranger District to other ranger districts on the Sequoia NF takes as long or longer.

The last time I listened to a dispatch from Porterville it was simultaneously transmitted on the BLM Central California District fire net also. The SQF and CND are integrated at the field level as well as in their communications center.
 

Mike_G_D

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Vista, CA
ExSmokey,

Referring to your questions concerning the OP of this thread - bear in mind that the thread is 5 years old and that the OP only shows a low number of posts so you may not get an immediate response.

-Mike
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
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Messages
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Virginia
I guess my real question is, does SQF fire and SNF fire get the same dispatch? Or are the dispatches on separate frequencies?
I still don't understand your question. Why would the Sierra National Forest get the same dispatch as the Sequoia National Forest? They are two separate entities and each get reports from the public, lookouts and field units to their individual dispatch centers. The Sierra National Forest (SNF) frequencies are included in the Sequoia National Forest channel plan so SQF units can communicate with the SNF dispatcher and field personnel when sent up there to assist with fires. There is a channel group in SQF radios with the frequencies of the Angeles National Forest in it so when SQF units are sent to the Angeles they can communicate with the dispatcher and field units on that Forest. Each federal natural resource/wildland fire agency handheld and mobile radio is capable of using the frequencies of all the National Forest, National Park, BLM District and National Wildlife Refuge in the state. If a Sequoia National Forest is sent to Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Park they can communicate with this park by selecting the group and channel in their radios that allow them to do that. The larger capacity radios also contain most of the Cal Fire frequencies and mutual aid frequencies used by fire departments and the law enforcement units assigned to large incidents or disasters.

I'm trying to guess what your question is so if I didn't answer it, lets try again.
 

kma371

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Feb 20, 2001
Messages
6,205
I guess my real question is, does SQF fire and SNF fire get the same dispatch? Or are the dispatches on separate frequencies?
The short, to the point answer is; they aren't the same, they are separate places. Different freqs.
 
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