St.Louis City PD and St. Louis County PD

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shelleys1

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I forgot to mention - the plans have *always been* for the radio system to come online around the 3rd quarter of 2013. That may or may not be the actual timeline. There are many departments involved and, as we've discussed here before, many frequencies. So we'll see what happens. What I can tell you is that there are many people working some very long hours to get this new radio system up and working as quickly as possible!

Shell :)
 

nick1427d

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As far as the fire side goes, things have hit significant delays. I have been told by a solid source that "they" were hoping all the fire departments would be going online by end of year but it looks more like next year. Along the lines of shellys 7 months time frame. The fire side will be on 800. However our radios will be dual band VHF/800. My understanding is that the STL city system and the County system are two entirely seperate systems. I have been told that they will all be linked with MOSWIN in some aspect (radio wise).

To answer the above question as to why county PD has been getting new radios. My answer to that is more than likely they needed to be replaced and the new system isn't ready yet. Therefore if the money is allocated to those new radios VHF, even if they will not be used in near future, well they needed to spend it. Also we (fire side) will not be disbanding our old radios. It's extremely dangerous to immediately disband an old functioning radio system immediately after going online with something new. If the new system goes down or has bugs, at least users are familiar with the old system and could go back to if such an event took place.

I don't know for a fact this is why PD has gotten new VHF radios, just a thought.

As I have mentioned prior, most of the info discussed that I have heard about the new radio system is coming from people who are taking part in these meetings. If the info is coming from someone who heard from someone who heard from another, be careful. Ever played the telephone game?

My point is all we can really do is wait and see what happens.

For instance I was told a month ago that we would not be disbanding our current dispatch center but this has been put "in the air". I will not go into detail as I don't wanna get into a heated debate about centralizing dispatch but I can say that the county, meaning officials like Dooley and not dispatch centers, are pushing for centralized dispatch. Basically it's a, "were giving you these radios so if you want to use them then you have to go through us" crap.

As a future end user, I don't care either way if we go to centralized dispatch as long as it either improves communications and/or doesn't hamper operations.

Another tidbit to absorb that hit me hard as a scanner enthusiast. I asked my Chief how we were going to be "toned out" after going online with 800. He replied that the FDs are all looking at many different possiblilties. He mentioned telephone lines, a motorola system, VoIP, a Westnet system, current VHF, and...wait for it....UHF.
 

nick1427d

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fullpwr,

Im not up to date with Motorolas new radios but can't the XTL5000s be put in digital "mode"? If this is the case then these may be used for MOSWIN. If this is the case it's almost a smart move money wise. You keep your old capabilities but also allow capability to access the new.

Shelley, is PD for sure going to 800 or VHF?
 

shelleys1

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One thing everyone needs to remember is that MOSWIN is a statewide emergency system, run by state assets. While it may come into play in St. Louis County at some point, it's not necessarily a key issue in the new radio system. MOSWIN is a state operation and involves State, Highway Patrol and, to some degree (depending on what the emergency might be) National Guard. Resources in MOSWIN activation could certainly involve St. Louis County and there most likely will be exercises and training once the operation is completely put together. But as far as the new St. Louis County radio system goes, I don't believe MOSWIN will necessarily be a primary part of it.

Shell
 
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fullpwr5675

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I understand why they wouldn't set up for 800 meg yet,that is obvious.My question is why the new vhf xtl's and yes these are mixed mode (P25/analog) capable.But to my knowledge these are not vhf/uhf hi capable,then again I could be wrong on that.As far as one of the posters saying something in reguards to "be careful what you say if you heard it from someone who heard it from someone" not sure if that was directed at me but I can tell you I have seen these radio's in the newer vehicles with my own eyes (really have no reason to make this up)Then again it could be like one of the others said and its a budget thing that if they need a new radio now,this is what they buy or use till the big change.I guess it also depends on where they are getting the vehicles from these days,because certain outfitters deliver these vehicles to p.d. with light,radio and siren gear installed and maybe this is a package they are getting and just using what's in there till then.Who knows just thought it was interesting to see new vhf digital equipment in their vehicles with all the changes coming
 

nick1427d

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As far as one of the posters saying something in reguards to "be careful what you say if you heard it from someone who heard it from someone" not sure if that was directed at me

It was not.

I don't follow your post about these XTLs not being VHF Hi capable? Currently County PD is on VHF hi and MOSWIN is VHF Hi P25.
 

shelleys1

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Fullpwr, I honestly don't have an answer for you on that. I will see what I can find out but I can't guarantee I'll get an answer. (My area is in emergency operations and not necessarily in assets, so I may or may not be able to find out.)

I'll make a few inquiries, see what answers I get and let you know!

Shell
 

nick1427d

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Fullpwr

I hope I didn't offend you with my comment(s) earlier. Sometimes I get a little to forward. I just get tired of the rumors. This is a very sensitive topic to some.

As for your earlier questions and comments. I thought about it a little more. I'm in no way saying you are wrong, but are you 100% the radios being put in these cars are not 800mhz. Could you find out what antennas they go to? Most of the motorola 800 mhz antennas being put on vehicles around here are about 13" and open coil. Sometimes people (not saying you) mistake these for VHF, which in fact some VHF antennas look similar.

The reason being they may be the new radios for the county system but if they are VHF and operating analog like you said then they may be meant for future MOSWIN use.
 

fullpwr5675

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No problem and no offense taken nick1427d,I've had my share of people get ignorant with me in forums and didn't take you for that at all.One thing I've tried to learn with web talk and text messages for that matter is "tone is everything",on a screen we just see words and without a face and a tone its hard sometimes to get where people are coming from.From what I understand these radios are going to the 1/4 wave (shorty vhf"s) on the suv's and some of the cars and to the 5/8 antennas on the cars.Now one has to be careful with judging the open coiled 800 meggers because I have heard of these used for their data connection (so I have been told) in a pinch.Also have to sort out the cars with cts systems cause they will plop the radio antenna in there next to them.I have seen new county highway safety chargers come in with just a 800 meg coil and unconfirmed on the radio type as I try and not be to nosy around the county garage.Out on the road though have just recently seen the new xtl's in the new ford interceptors,suvs and chevy caprices.Most of the officers I work with only know of some radio training they are supposed to do next year and nothing about the current radios in there cars.And sorry if my post seem like endless rants with poor punctuation,not my strong suite.But I think I get my point across,just thought I'd ad that in case of a grammar nazi attack lol.
 

shelleys1

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Radios in County PD Cars

Nick, Fullpwr, etc.,

I can guarantee everyone that any radios which are currently being put into St. Louis County PD cars and distributed new handhelds are *not* purely 800 MHz radios! They may be the combination of 800 and VHF-high with digital capability (which would make sense to a certain degree) but 800MHz alone is out of the question!. I can also tell you that they *are* Motorola and all radios - car mounted and portable - will be Motorola. That contract was signed several months ago.

As I previously mentioned, I will make some inquiries next week and find out what I can. I will then post here what information I'm able to gather. This is a HUGE project! Also, as I've mentioned in the past, I've "retired" (so-to-speak) from County but I'm still involved in a few things. I will definitely talk to several people next week and not only try to get some answers for everyone but also to attempt to get a more up-to-date timeline. There have been some hiccups, as there ALWAYS are in any kind of huge project like this! But that's just the way things go and, like most things, the hiccups didn't come from County, they came from outside sources. But you work through these and push those parties harder!!

Anyway, as I said I'll try to get some information and pass it on next week. *Smile*

Shell
 

shelleys1

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Pleasantly Surprised and more...

An interesting item...

The last couple of days I've had to head down to the City to do a couple of things. On both occasions City was clearly *not* encrypting the majority of their communications. They were, most likely, encrypting (as County does) their important comms (TACT or SWAT if that's what they call it in the City... other undercover ops, etc.) but everything else was very much out in the open. So they're quite clearly NOT encrypting their everyday operations!

I'll be quite interested to see what happens when the new chief is chosen and takes over. Initially I was pretty pleased with Chief Isom but he never appeared to "take over" or be as strong a chief as I expected (and hoped) he would. The City certainly has a large group which has applied for the position! It will be interesting to see how smoothly (or not) the process of choosing the next Chief goes, considering the Department is no longer under the control of Jefferson City! (Yes, I'm *very* pleased about that!)

Shell
 

kruser

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Hey Shelley!

Yep, City is still running a lot in the clear. Even tactical and undercover is mostly still in the clear.
A while back I'd started making a list of encrypted radio id's and then gave up. That was about a year ago I think.
When I monitor today, I can't say anymore radios are encrypted compared to what I heard when I was making my list.
I'm not sure what happened to that plan but they sure did not encrypt everything.
I don't think you have a GRE PSR 500 or 600 or the radioshack clones but if so, you can hear the encrypted traffic on those models as they are not smart enough to ignore it. There is a fair amount of encrypted traffic mainly on the district dispatch talkgroups. But like I said, the amount of encrypted traffic has not really increased or changed from what it was a year ago.
You still hear cars talking encrypted to dispatch and everyone talks back to that car in the clear. Sometimes repeating what they had said!
Maybe they are still in a testing phase and are going to "throw the switch" so to say later this year and all will go encrypted.
I always thought that the story went that city will be fully encrypted by years end. So we all wait and see what happens!
I hope they gave up on doing it citywide and contain it to just what they have today as that is not bad. It is bad if you only have the models I mentioned above as the encryption noise will drive you batty!
The Unidens skip over the encryption so they are the way to go for the cities system. Even the GRE PSR-800 does not truly handle an encrypted signal correctly. It only "mutes" the encrypted sound but it will hang stuck on that talkgroup until the transmitter drops. The Unidens will keep scanning for other in the clear chatter as they all should.

I was also glad to finally see the city get away from state control!

As far as the new chief, I guess we will know soon.

Thanks for sharing your findings while in the city!
 

fullpwr5675

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Yeah I could of told you city comms were mostly open,I have some retired motorola astro spectras that I listen to them on in conventional scan,I pick them up suprisingly well being on the 5th floor here in Kirkwood.As far as the new county radios I think I have a confirmation on these radios I am seeing being dual band (150 and 800) mhz units which would make sense for the new 800 system and still retaining "MOSWIN" compatibility vhf with the new radios
 

nick1427d

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As far as the new county radios I think I have a confirmation on these radios I am seeing being dual band (150 and 800) mhz units which would make sense for the new 800 system and still retaining "MOSWIN" compatibility vhf with the new radios

What I figured as well. At least that's what fire side is doing. Also retaining our interop with agencies that won't be part of either system.

Have you seen the county radios? Do they look like this:

APX™ 7500 Multi-Band Mobile Radio - Motorola Solutions USA

We're supposed to be getting our train the trainer in January regarding the new radios
 

fullpwr5675

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No,so far I have only seen XTL 5000'S in the cars,haven't seen any new walkies yet
 

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polo807

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re

That is the exact radio my neighbor has he has a take home county car.. He has the same county C.B looking antenna not the 800mhz little black nub and his car has the 3 little tracking antenna's Now Creve Couer has both the black 800 mhz antenna as well as the old style antenna.
Dan Isom was a joke just take a look at Saint Louis Cop Talk. Going from a Police chief to a teacher. Rank and file didn't like him he tried to micro manage the department. One of his nicknames was pie-chart Dan.
Sam Dotson will be a very good chief a major step up from Isom. Sam use to drive former Chief Mowka .
The SWAT Team has taken over the 7100 series that Mobile Reserve use to use.Mobile is no longer hopefully Dotson will bring them back they were what the County's Tact Unit does.

Happy New Year All !!
 

nick1427d

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Been awhile on here anyone have anything new to report regarding the St. Louis County system? We've been told May now for training. We recently filled out our TGID paperwork. Gonna be very "organized" from what I see. Meaning first couple of numbers will relate to agency, similar to how MOSWIN is going. Also "heard" this is the radio we are getting. So maybe we can squash the dual band radio debate. This is nice considering we can still communicate with non trunked users with one radio.
 

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