State Fire M.A. on State D.P.S. 800mhz T.R.S.

[PolarBear25]

I just had a thought hard patch the state's fire M.A. 154.130 to the state's T.R.S. so that way T.R.S. users and V.F.D.'s VHF high users can talk to one other on the fireground for wildfires Etc. maybe on one of the SMA's??

Please let me know your thought's on this..

 

[Secret_Squirrel]

If I told you my thoughts on this I'm afraid this thread would get locked.

 

[car2back]

why? how often does a volunteer firefighter using VHF need to talk on the radio to another firefighter that uses 800?

 

[FireMedic712]

why? how often does a volunteer firefighter using VHF need to talk on the radio to another firefighter that uses 800?

Quite often if you have boundaries with a community that uses the state 800 system.

I.E. Sperry Fire

It's impossible for Sperry to communicate with Tulsa or Owasso on large fires unless they borrow a radio. Look at catoosas VHF/800 patch with Tulsa. Now take the state fire MA and crossband it with an RMA and you have a giant interoperable mess. That would just get crazy, but it would work.

 

[car2back]

Sperry is a good example, but is there enough work between Sperry and Owasso or TFD to justify a full time patch of the fire net? :wink:

 

[xerb1962]

Edmond links their 800 system up to 154.130 on a regular basis.
So when you listen to the Edmond TG it is just like having a repeater on M.A.
When they are linked, the Edmond trucks 800 signal is repeated on 154.130.
It works rather well considering the traffic you get when eight or so agencys are working a single fire. There are a bunch of doubles though and the Edmond trucks by virtue of having the full output power of the link can overpower all the simplex units.

 

[KK5FM]

Edmond links their 800 system up to 154.130 on a regular basis.
So when you listen to the Edmond TG it is just like having a repeater on M.A.
When they are linked, the Edmond trucks 800 signal is repeated on 154.130.
It works rather well considering the traffic you get when eight or so agencys are working a single fire. There are a bunch of doubles though and the Edmond trucks by virtue of having the full output power of the link can overpower all the simplex units.

And so I am baffled on why a certain VFD in Logan County feels compelled to go to 800 mHz.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[xerb1962]

This is news to me, I suspect it is the one with all the money?

 

[freqscout]

The other problem with SFMA links is that there generally is one point of access to areas in the field. To get the signal out there you have to put a little height or a good "foot warmer" on it to reach out and touch the remote areas.

Three problems come to mind.
1: The higher up the wider your receive area. The more you receive the more interference you receive on that paticular frequency. Every small agency around seems to use the SFMA. So you might find that you are working a fire and hear a lot of distant non-related fire traffic that locks the users out of the TG (can't transmit on the TRS side if the link side is keyed). You don't think this is an issue try listening to SFMA on an elevated antenna some time. There is a lot of good traffic at times, especially when they all start toning out.

2: Interfering to other groups. With your antenna up high or putting out a lot of juice you are just as likely to interfere with someone else as they are to interfere with you.

3: Limited coverage for users. There is just only so far you can throw a signal out there from one point and SFMA does in fact lead one to various spots all over the state.

My idea for a solution would be to have links to the V-TAC channels and program the user radios up for those channels. They are designed and prescribed to be used as V-Call then V-Tac 1 through V-Tac 4 (or 3 can't remeber) for hailing and mutual aid events (respectively) and not for everyday use like SFMA and SPMA. Most VFD units I have seen have multi-channel radios but do not use all of their channels or just program in a lot of other stuff for filler and fun. While this is not a new idea you may see this again sometime in the future ;-).

 

[PolarBear25]

Sperry is a good example, but is there enough work between Sperry and Owasso or TFD to justify a full time patch of the fire net? :wink:

Yes look at the system down here in OKC we have a lot of F.D.s going to the 800 Mhz T.R.S. and some still on VHF high so whats the answer a new T.G. on the states D.P.S. 800 Mhz T.R.S. to patch the state fire M.A. 154.130 in to the state's D.P.S. T.R.S.

I think it should be on a SMA so everyone has it on there T.R.S.

 

[PolarBear25]

The other problem with SFMA links is that there generally is one point of access to areas in the field. To get the signal out there you have to put a little height or a good "foot warmer" on it to reach out and touch the remote areas.

Three problems come to mind.
1: The higher up the wider your receive area. The more you receive the more interference you receive on that paticular frequency. Every small agency around seems to use the SFMA. So you might find that you are working a fire and hear a lot of distant non-related fire traffic that locks the users out of the TG (can't transmit on the TRS side if the link side is keyed). You don't think this is an issue try listening to SFMA on an elevated antenna some time. There is a lot of good traffic at times, especially when they all start toning out.

2: Interfering to other groups. With your antenna up high or putting out a lot of juice you are just as likely to interfere with someone else as they are to interfere with you.

3: Limited coverage for users. There is just only so far you can throw a signal out there from one point and SFMA does in fact lead one to various spots all over the state.

My idea for a solution would be to have links to the V-TAC channels and program the user radios up for those channels. They are designed and prescribed to be used as V-Call then V-Tac 1 through V-Tac 4 (or 3 can't remeber) for hailing and mutual aid events (respectively) and not for everyday use like SFMA and SPMA. Most VFD units I have seen have multi-channel radios but do not use all of their channels or just program in a lot of other stuff for filler and fun. While this is not a new idea you may see this again sometime in the future ;-).

Help me out what is V-Tac??

 

[car2back]

Help me out what is V-Tac??

that's what I was thinking, are you talking about the I-tacs or something different freqscout?

 

[freqscout]

There are V-Tacs and U-Tacs also..just like the I-Tacs. They are protected, federally identified, mutual aid hailing and interop channels.

Check this link for further info:
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&aid=3333

 

[PolarBear25]

Ok so have a hard patch of for I-call I-tac 1 I-tac 2 U-call U-tac1 and V-call And V tac1..

Right??

 

[freqscout]

Well the I-Tacs are separate from the system but in every 800 radio anyhow.

I would be more interested in seeing links to the V-TACS and U-TACS from the 800 TG's. That would give the users great flexibility in how to interact with other agencies that are from outside the metro or from a non-800 agency.

 

[PolarBear25]

Ok, I would to F.S.

 

[FireMedic712]

Sperry is a good example, but is there enough work between Sperry and Owasso or TFD to justify a full time patch of the fire net? :wink:

No, not a full time patch, but the ability to patch would be nice. It wouldnt take much, and can technically be done quite easily with the right cable and a couple of antennas :wink:

 

[freqscout]

I think that the idea was more for a dedicated patch. One that is solely for accessing a FD MA VHF Channel. Full time paches are often a waste of space. Then again there are some part-time patches that end up being full-time since some people are always affiliated to them.

 

[PolarBear25]

Right F.S.

 

[eharlow]

You're right.

This is news to me, I suspect it is the one with all the money?

You're right....it's the one with the most money. The one to the east of them IS catching up in money though since they voted to go Title 19 property tax funded.

Back to the radio issues, the one to the west and south of them is going this year to the state 800 system. It makes sense since both are dispatched by Edmond. If you want anymore inside info on this...email me and I'll give it to you. Former volunteer for the "one with the money" and current volunteer for the one to the west.