State of Florida going to switch to APCO 25

[mr-fordtruck]

Any bets on when the state of Florida Pro Voice system moves over to APCO25. The Department of Homeland Security is really pushing P25 and in the near future the focus will be on phase 2 P25. It seems Pro Voice is on its way to be a thing of the past like Motorola’s VSELP technology. Now almost all M/A-com’s adds have some reference of their contribution to P25 technology.

If this happens it will be the 3rd time lots of our hard-earned tax money is spent on this radio system.

 

[N_Jay]

Any bets on when the state of Florida Pro Voice system moves over to APCO25. The Department of Homeland Security is really pushing P25 and in the near future the focus will be on phase 2 P25. It seems Pro Voice is on its way to be a thing of the past like Motorola’s VSELP technology. Now almost all M/A-com’s adds have some reference of their contribution to P25 technology.

If this happens it will be the 3rd time lots of our hard-earned tax money is spent on this radio system.

No one is puishing to change systems that are already in.

So it will get changed when it is replaced.

As for the first 2 systems, go to your local politicians and complain.

 

[ShawnCowden]

their going back to P25 ??? not staying provoice

 

[N_Jay]

their going back to P25 ??? not staying provoice

Are you reading the words in the thread?

 

[N4DES]

If someone pushed the state, they will say they have interoperability using
MotoBridge. The State isn't going back...besides they don't own the MaComm
System. They only lease their time on it and gave away the rights to the vertical
real estate. Privatization at its finest.

 

[fl-dj]

If someone pushed the state, they will say they have interoperability using
MotoBridge. The State isn't going back...besides they don't own the MaComm
System. They only lease their time on it and gave away the rights to the vertical
real estate. Privatization at its finest.

Thank you, finally somone that knows what's going on ... now for everyeone else, please stop calling it a P25 system, it's not, there is no Voice over IP on that system in either the Ma-Com or Motorola portion, it's a legacy Motorola Smart Zone system and a close to legacy MACom system, there are NO P25 featrues on the system other than the digital vocoder modulation.

 

[traperjeff]

From what I understand it is provoice w/h ESK. is that not better than apco-25. or do I not understand. ESK can not be scaned, At least not yet...
Jeff

 

[fl-dj]

From what I understand it is provoice w/h ESK. is that not better than apco-25. or do I not understand. ESK can not be scaned, At least not yet...
Jeff

P25 is a standard implemented by vendors using a mandated standard dictated by the APCO board. The radios use IMBE vocoding (voice coding) of the audio which I think is where people often mistake P25, however the control channel for P25 systems is 9600 baud not the 3600 baud of the current Motorola system. MaCom complicates this by operating their control channel at 9600 baud, however they do not have a P25 system yet <end of story>.

MaCom also has 4800 baud control channels at 900 mhz, where as Motorola uses 3600 baud for everything EXCEPT P25. MaCom also serves up another (again non-P25 solution) called Open-Sky which is a cellular style network which conforms to NO Apco standard since it runs with the AMBE voice coder. MaCom calls their digital voice, Pro-Voice which does use the IMBE voice coder to support P25.

ESK is a feature enabled on the MaCom system whcih encrypts the data on the control channel as well as adding encryption at the radio programming software where you can prevent radios from being cloned or illegally programmed. Adding encryption to the talk group is yet another "feature" that can be implemeted but really has nothing to do with the standard.

P25 systems are primarily Voice over IP systems, they are end to end digital and use routers and gateways to get the voice from one end of the system to another. Now as for P25 and MaCom, their system is in development and they have demonstrated their portable on the Motorola system in Phoenix working seamlessly, however they are years behind on the infrastructure which is due to a poor decision on the part of their CEO years ago.

 

[mr-fordtruck]

FD-JD I would also think all the states radios are of a Pro Voice series only. I dont think the Vocoder would be able to support P25. Correct?

 

[n4voxgill]

The state is locked into a contract with Macom for the provoice system. They don't even have the money the buy their way out of the contract much less a billion dollars to buy out macom and put in a motorola system. This is why they had to get a grant to get the equipment to let the provoice talk to other systems.

 

[N_Jay]

Very close!

P25 is a standard implemented by vendors using a mandated standard dictated by the APCO board. The radios use IMBE vocoding (voice coding) of the audio which I think is where people often mistake P25, however the control channel for P25 systems is 9600 baud not the 3600 baud of the current Motorola system. MaCom complicates this by operating their control channel at 9600 baud, however they do not have a P25 system yet <end of story>.

The P25 standard is developed by industry to meet public safety needs under the TIA.
APCO was one of the founding members of the process, but not th eonly one.
The P25 control channel is 9600 BPS (not baud) and uses P25 modulation and channel formating.
M/A-COM control channel is 9600 baud, 2 level (GMSK, I think), and uses its own formatting.
ANd Yes, M/A-COM also has P25 compliant systems (in some bands).

MaCom also has 4800 baud control channels at 900 mhz, where as Motorola uses 3600 baud for everything EXCEPT P25. MaCom also serves up another (again non-P25 solution) called Open-Sky which is a cellular style network which conforms to NO Apco standard since it runs with the AMBE voice coder. MaCom calls their digital voice, Pro-Voice which does use the IMBE voice coder to support P25.

M/A-COM has to use 4800 baud on 12.5 kHz channels (like 900 MHz) because teh 9600 baud 2 level signal takes up too much bandwith.

Motorola, through design or luck, ended up using a 3600 baud, 2 level signal that is capable of being sent on 12.5 or 25 kHz channels.

OpenSky does use AMBE, but that has nothing to do with it not beinmg P25. It is simply different than P25 on almost every aspect.

M/A-COM's Provoice uses a vocoder the same or similar to P25, but it is NOT P25 since it used different modulation and different channel coding.

ESK is a feature enabled on the MaCom system whcih encrypts the data on the control channel as well as adding encryption at the radio programming software where you can prevent radios from being cloned or illegally programmed. Adding encryption to the talk group is yet another "feature" that can be implemeted but really has nothing to do with the standard.

:wink:

P25 systems are primarily Voice over IP systems, they are end to end digital and use routers and gateways to get the voice from one end of the system to another. Now as for P25 and MaCom, their system is in development and they have demonstrated their portable on the Motorola system in Phoenix working seamlessly, however they are years behind on the infrastructure which is due to a poor decision on the part of their CEO years ago.

P25 interconnect will be IP, but that standard is not done yet.
P25 systems are NOT IP or VoIP over the air.
And as I stated, M/A-COM does have P25 infrastructure in teh field and running.

 

[N_Jay]

FD-JD I would also think all the states radios are of a Pro Voice series only. I dont think the Vocoder would be able to support P25. Correct?

Some new models of M/A-COM field equipment has both ProVoice and P25 modes, however the issue is not just a vocoder issue, (as many like to incorrectly present it.)

 

[fl-dj]

Some new models of M/A-COM field equipment has both ProVoice and P25 modes, however the issue is not just a vocoder issue, (as many like to incorrectly present it.)

well sir thank you for correcting me on a few points, i admit that i don't know everything and appreciate the input, as well my point which i think made it through was to stop everyone from saying P25 on a system that is far from that.