Sticky Thread For Mid-Atlantic MilAir 2022

[mdmonitor]

If anyone is interested here are the ATC comms with NASA 809 and Montreal, and Boston on their initial RTB (LiveATC).

NASA 809 ATC Comms

First time I've heard anyone at FL650. Interesting that the U-2 altitude readout as seen by ATC only goes to FL600, had to explain that to each controller.

Air

Thanks for that clip

I come from a French-Canadian background so it was nice to hear the controller's French-Canadian English Brought back good memories of when I was growing up.

 

[TerryPavlick]

127.875 is a regular Montreal high altitude frequency, normally cross-coupled with 135.600. Sounds like with the traffic being so light at the time they were able to isolate 127.875 for the NASA aircraft and then used 135.600 for other traffic.



I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it. It sounds like some sort of mode/interference (?) with the LiveATC receiver though and not originating from the U-2.

Actually the tones were ACARS signals being received by the feed site (basically bleed over)

Sounds to me that the aircraft shows the altitude of 60K when replying to the radar interrogation. So the controller sees the altitude reported as 60K regardless of the aircraft actual altitude. Basically an internal aircraft process that hides the true altitude from any sensor.

 

[mdmonitor]

1122- UAF 1230 (United Emirates C-17 # 1229) off Atlantic City, probably inbound to Dover. UAF 1230 calling unid CP on 311.0

 

[morfis]

Actually the tones were ACARS signals being received by the feed site (basically bleed over)

Sounds to me that the aircraft shows the altitude of 60K when replying to the radar interrogation. So the controller sees the altitude reported as 60K regardless of the aircraft actual altitude. Basically an internal aircraft process that hides the true altitude from any sensor.

Agree with Terry, legacy ACARS and decodeable as such.
Also the interpreation of the altitude display is correct. Rarely hear them mention it to UK controllers (presumably because we have daily U2 flights they have all heard it before).

 

[AirScan]

Sounds to me that the aircraft shows the altitude of 60K when replying to the radar interrogation. So the controller sees the altitude reported as 60K regardless of the aircraft actual altitude. Basically an internal aircraft process that hides the true altitude from any sensor.

Maybe still a little touchy from the Francis Gary Powers incident ? [/joke] Not that Canada could shoot anything down.

Agree with Terry, legacy ACARS and decodeable as such.

Yes, after listening to them again definately ACARS.

 

[Mark]

Notice a couple HC-130J's departing Bermuda Eastbound 11:25am local.
KING-04 #09-5709 and KING-05 10-5716 both with 79RQS Davis Monthan KDMA.
Both were logged eastbound yesterday thru Georgia so assume being deployed down range somewhere.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Be interested in seeing if we have some government flights from LA to DC today. Several VP staffers have been exposed to covid and are not being allowed to travel to Milwaukee tomorrow with their boss. Now will they quarentine in LA or come home?

 

[TerryPavlick]

1122- UAF 1230 (United Emirates C-17 # 1229) off Atlantic City, probably inbound to Dover. UAF 1230 calling unid CP on 311.0

Pictures as he flew by

 

[Mark]

Be interested in seeing if we have some government flights from LA to DC today. Several VP staffers have been exposed to covid and are not being allowed to travel to Milwaukee tomorrow with their boss. Now will they quarentine in LA or come home?

Looks like SAM-191 98-0002 is on the way West to California. Just got back yesterday with Sec of State.
Maybe decon aircraft for VP party

 

[wbagley]

First time I've heard anyone at FL650. Interesting that the U-2 altitude readout as seen by ATC only goes to FL600, had to explain that to each controller.

Awesome edit of the NASA 809 clip AirScan.

Now, this is no s**t. Or, once upon a time...

I've heard it claimed that in some legacy Air Traffic Control software the pressure altitude was coded as a four-digit hexadecimal value without proper error checking (to save memory and CPU cycles I suppose). At some internal system level the display of the aircraft pressure altitude is capped at FL600 since that is the top of Class A airspace and also perhaps to keep nosey folks like us from seeing the U-2's actual altitude performance.

A few years ago a U-2 went above 65,535 feet and a Y2K type rollover occurred somewhere in the ATC computers. A phantom jet at low altitude popped up on the Los Angeles Center radar screens and all hell broke loose:

The Federal Aviation Administration has confirmed that a Soviet-era U-2 spy plane operated by the Air Force was partly responsible for major flight disruptions in California last week. According to a statement obtained by NBC News, air traffic computer systems "experienced problems while processing a flight plan filed for a U-2 aircraft that operates at very high altitudes under visual flight rules." The U-2 was flying at its proper altitude of 60,000 feet when it crossed into airspace monitored by the Los Angeles Air Route Traffic Control Center on Wednesday afternoon. But for reasons unknown, air traffic computers apparently saw it as a risk for commercial flights flying far below. "The computer system interpreted the flight as a more typical low altitude operation, and began processing it for a route below 10,000 feet," the FAA said.

Since the system incorrectly assumed the U-2 was on a collision course with other planes, it next tried to come up with new routings that would safely "de-conflict the aircraft with lower-altitude flights." But the FAA said this taxing process "used a large amount of available memory and interrupted the computer’s other flight-processing functions." With its computer systems scrambled, the FAA was forced to issue a ground stop order that impacted tens of thousands of travelers.

FAA says U-2 spy plane caused major problems for air traffic control - The Verge

 

[bruinsaviator]

IGOR48 out of PSM 1:25pm. Weird since there’s already two tankers up.

 

[wbagley]

Some information on the NASA ER-2 mission speed and altitude profile from the Experimenter's Handbook:

Operating Altitude

The cruise climb segment of a typical mission will begin no lower than 60,000 ft (18 km), and will terminate no higher than 70,000 ft (21 km). It is possible to operate the aircraft at lower altitudes with the concurrence of the operations staff. The operating range of the aircraft is reduced by sustained flight at altitudes below 52,000 ft (16 km), due to a slower true airspeed. The scientific justification for such missions will be weighed against the risk levels to the pilot and the aircraft.

Speed

At cruise altitude the Mach number is held constant at M = 0.715. This is equivalent to a TAS (true airspeed) of approximately 410 kn (210 m/sec). At normal ER-2 operating altitudes, the airspeed cannot be adjusted from this design point. At lower altitudes, below 52,000 ft (16 km), the pilot has some additional flexibility in airspeed.

ER-2 COVER (nasa.gov)

 

[Mark]

1530 local heard DRAGON-86 sounded like one time L+C on ZNY Elmira high 298.900
1540 Over to ZBW Rockdale High 273.550,short coms,must be eastbound. DRAGON reports FL240
1545 DRAGON 86 over to ZBW 360.600.shortly lost him after this.

 

[pvdspotter]

1530 local heard DRAGON-86 sounded like one time L+C on ZNY Elmira high 298.900
1540 Over to ZBW Rockdale High 273.550,short coms,must be eastbound. DRAGON reports FL240
1545 DRAGON 86 over to ZBW 360.600.shortly lost him after this.

Hearing that it landed at Westover ARB in Massachusetts around 16:00, if anyone could confirm that’d be great

 

[pro106import]

Hearing that it landed at Westover ARB in Massachusetts around 16:00, if anyone could confirm that’d be great

16:15 Local Time: DRAGON 86 (U2) descending and landing Runway 5 with chase car assistance. ATC: 281.5, 348.75

 

[Mark]

16:15 Local Time: DRAGON 86 (U2) descending and landing Runway 5 with chase car assistance. ATC: 281.5, 348.75

Thanks for nice tie up guys ! I usually thought the Beale U-2's going to UK did a non-stop polar route to Fairford.
Maybe wx problems down range.. No wonder he sounded so clear at Elmira way down here

1745 local XTENDER-21 Travis KC-10 #86-0029 inbound McGuire with 18 pallets to download.
Sounds like unusual rush job for Reserve unit KC-10 to get them to McGuire like that.. You speculate.

That KING-04 and KING-05 seen earlier departing Bermuda now coming into Canary Islands it seems just off North West Africa.

Couple of KC-135's out of Cecil Field KVQQ Jacksonville heading over tonight.
RCH-051 #58-0056 and RCH ? Prob 52 #63-8038. Prob gonna see a lot of EB cargo the next week or so.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Probably CAP won't last long in the morning,

10:30 AM THE PRESIDENT arrives at the White House
South Lawn

 

[TerryPavlick]

20:30 63-8038 RCH052 K35R headed NE off the coast of NJ at 39K
Hex AE0270

Bound for NATO AIR BASE GEILENKIRCHEN

 

[Mark]

Earlier McGuire FEST (Foreign Emergency Support Team) aircraft C-32B #00-9001 departed to ESPA Sweden according to blog report.
Just was down San Juan the other day..

 

[mdmonitor]

0705- Igor 49 (KC-46 # 16-46016 NH ANG Pease ANGB NH) over NYC heading for CAP. Nobles on 263.2. Advise Huntress they are negative Timber & Jackyl.