STL City P25 system encryption?

Status
Not open for further replies.

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,228
Location
St. Louis County, MO
Anyone else noticing more encryption on the Saint Louis city P25 system?
I usually monitor with the 996XT and it mutes encrypted talk and will even skip over talkgroups when encryption is detected.
The other night I used the PSR-600 to see if enough leaves had fallen for it to get a decent signal and I heard encryption on SODD and Info A.
Since the PSR-600 is once again receiveng the cities system fairly well, I have been using it but I'm also seeing encryption on the District 1&2 talkgroup also. I've not checked radio ID's much to see if it is a select few users or not but the encryption is real. I hold the 996XT on the talkgroups listed above and when I hear encryption sounds from the PSR-600, the 996XT does show ENC on its display in Display Mode 1.

I can see where this is definately a reason to favor the Uniden 996XT or 396XT over the GRE's. If a system is only partially encrypted by some radio id's, the GRE's are horrible for monitoring that system due to the encryption noise.

It is not a lot of encryption yet but it is enough to make you shut the GRE off or skip those talkgroups but District 1 & 2 is one of my favorites.
 

mk262

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
423
Location
Daytona Beach
I don't follow STL but you might want to track what you're noticing and perhaps submit a database change noting a talkgroup that's partially or totally encrypted.

If I could be so bold. :)
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,228
Location
St. Louis County, MO
I'm hearing it here and there. Sad Sad Sad.
What receiver are you using?
I've not tried it yet but they tell me the PSR800 will at least mute encrypted comms but it may still hold on the channel or talkgroup.
I know it makes monitoring the system annoying with the PSR600 as there is no way to even mute the noise. Uniden has GRE beat in this area.

I'm hoping GRE can modify the firmware for the 500 and 600 to at least mute the audio.

And yes, it is Sad Sad Sad:(
 

ElGenio

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
76
Location
M
Shoooot. Shouldn't have used "hearing" in this case. Better word choice: I've witnessed it. I have a 996XT, so I haven't really "heard" anything.
 

kwagner

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
3
Location
Wentzville Missouri
Do you have the exact frequencies for District 1 and 2 of St. Louis PD?

Anyone else noticing more encryption on the Saint Louis city P25 system?
I usually monitor with the 996XT and it mutes encrypted talk and will even skip over talkgroups when encryption is detected.
The other night I used the PSR-600 to see if enough leaves had fallen for it to get a decent signal and I heard encryption on SODD and Info A.
Since the PSR-600 is once again receiveng the cities system fairly well, I have been using it but I'm also seeing encryption on the District 1&2 talkgroup also. I've not checked radio ID's much to see if it is a select few users or not but the encryption is real. I hold the 996XT on the talkgroups listed above and when I hear encryption sounds from the PSR-600, the 996XT does show ENC on its display in Display Mode 1.

I can see where this is definately a reason to favor the Uniden 996XT or 396XT over the GRE's. If a system is only partially encrypted by some radio id's, the GRE's are horrible for monitoring that system due to the encryption noise.

It is not a lot of encryption yet but it is enough to make you shut the GRE off or skip those talkgroups but District 1 & 2 is one of my favorites.
Do you have the actual frequencies for these districts? I am having a very difficult time trying to find them and get them programmed correctly into my GRE Mobile scanner. If you have any information as far as St. Charles city PD as well as St. Peters and O'fallon PD I would greatly appreciate it.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,228
Location
St. Louis County, MO
Do you have the actual frequencies for these districts? I am having a very difficult time trying to find them and get them programmed correctly into my GRE Mobile scanner. If you have any information as far as St. Charles city PD as well as St. Peters and O'fallon PD I would greatly appreciate it.
They are trunked systems so the frequency changes with each new transmission for the most part. You do not enter just a single frequency. You must program the system. It is much easier if you purchase the software for your model of scanner as is will connect here at RR and pull the dta into your GRE providing you have a digital model for the P25 systems like this thread is discussing.
I get all my information from the database here. Did you try looking there?

Look at the database for St. Louis Cities P25 system and St. Charles County for the systems you metnioned in that county.
Here St. Louis Metropolitan Public Safety (P25) Trunking System, St Louis Metro Area, Missouri - Scanner Frequencies
and here: St. Charles County, Missouri (MO) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

You should really start a new thread in the GRE forum if you do not understand the trunking concept. If you do understand it, you should start a new thread asking for what you asked here. Much better chance at getting the help you are after.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,228
Location
St. Louis County, MO
I've heard that basically soon, all TG's will be Encrypted.
That will be a sad day indeed.
I'll miss the action of the city even though I do not live within it.
I suspect the new statewide system and any others that associate with this system will follow suit as well.
 

MaximaGuy

Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
43
I've noticed with my Pro 96 on the SODD talkgroup, it's like a few of the radios are encrypted. I will hear one officer talking and then the responding officer's transmission will be all garbled. I wasn't sure if that was encryption or what, but I have noticed it for the last few weeks.

Apparently the Tac channels are not yet encrypted because I hear them all of the time in some conversations you would expect would be encrypted if at all possible. Some of them include stakeouts, watching drug dealers, secretly following violent armed felons across the city, and preparing to make traffic stops on wanted suspects and stating where to setup with spike strips if they run.
 

scanman1958

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
714
Location
St. Louis
StLPD Encryption

I have not heard encryption myself. There have been times when a sergeant apparently was talking but nothing came over my scanner. Nothing at all. Not even a little chirp or anything at the start of the transmission. Anyway I want to agree with what Terry said. Sad, sad, sad. Yes it is. I have it on pretty good authority that it will happen in the future and some preparations are being made for the switch. Sad sad sad. I have no problems with the city if there is a situation that warrants no one hearing that they say. I got no problems with that. I do have problems with them keeping everyone in the dark. I have read articles that say it is for officer safety or HIPPA. I don't believe it. I also have heard it is because of those criminals out there out foxing the cops. Everyone out here knows that the average everyday street thug does not have a scanner with them. Especially how complicated they are now just to figure out. How long did it take for you guys just to learn and get comfortable with the likes of the 396xt? Sad sad sad. I hope the city gets smart and only uses it for needed situations. It is a sad future for us hobbyists.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
3,228
Location
St. Louis County, MO
I have not heard encryption myself. There have been times when a sergeant apparently was talking but nothing came over my scanner. Nothing at all. Not even a little chirp or anything at the start of the transmission. How long did it take for you guys just to learn and get comfortable with the likes of the 396xt? Sad sad sad. I hope the city gets smart and only uses it for needed situations. It is a sad future for us hobbyists.
If you are using the 396XT, you will not hear the encryption. The XT Unidens do a very good job at just skipping right over anything that is encrypted.
If you hold on a talkgroup that has some encrypted talk on it, the display on the 396 should show the ENC message which stands for encrypted. I'm not sure if that will show in all three of the display modes though.
I think I run mine in display mode 2 and it does show ENC but again, you need to be held on that talkgroup otherwise it will just skip right over them and you will know nothing.
The Pro-96 and GRE PSR500 and 600 and the radio shack equivalents will all stop and open the audio path to the speaker when they encounter encryption. I hate that as it is very annoying. I used to like my GRE's for the city P25 system but now that they open the squelch on encrypted talk, I now favor the Unidens for the P25 system monitoring.
I've been told that the GRE PSR-800 will mute encrypted talk but I think it still stops on the channel. That is better than nothing but that method will of course tie the scanner up as it will stop scanning for the duration of the encrypted talk.
Uniden has GRE beat here.
I was making a list of radio ID's that showed encrypted but I have not been doing it for some time now so I do not know if the list has grown. I think I had only about 25 radio ID's that were encrypted so that is a low number. Some were using SODD and then a couple in District 1+2 talkgroup seemed to be the biggest users of encryption. I did listen last night for a pretty long time and I can't say that it seemed like there was more encrypted talk from when I first noticed it so maybe they are not changing more radios yet. With any luck, they gave up on the idea! Something tells me that is wishful thinking!

Regarding your question on the time it took to become comfortable with the 396 or 996, for me it is never! I let the computer make most changes for me. I've been into scanning since the mid 70's and I guess the old ways will never leave me.
I can do most of the basics with the 396 or 996 though so I'm happy enough with it. I still must break out a manual once in a while though when I can't figure something out. I do try any figure out many things by hand first just because the day will come when I do not have a computer handy. I do use the computer to add large systems though as I don't feel like keying it all in by hand.
 

redhelmet13

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
459
Location
4 nm se KNFW
I have heard that Project Safecom is the roadmap for public safety communications systems as laid out by the Federal Govt. There may be some stipulations in Fed. Grants which state they must follow the guidelines set forth in Project Safecom. There is mention of which type of communications to encrypt. I would like to read one of those grants to either comfirm or pooh pooh what I was told.

As far as encrypting tac channels, yes, I agree since the bad guys listen in also.
 

scanman1958

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
714
Location
St. Louis
City Encrypt

I agree with just about everything you say about the use of the 396 and getting the manual out etc. I got it out just over a week ago to try something I could not get to work some time before. As far as encryption on the city TG's I am not hearing what I am hearing on government channels. I have a ton of what could be called FBI, DEA POTUS etc and if those channels are encrypted I am hearing a very quick buzz or electronic chirp that lasts for a split second then goes away. I am not hearing that on the city's TRS. But then again I am scanning the system not sitting on a channel as you mention. I might have to try that and be patient. As every out there is saying I really hope they do this on an as needed basis.
 

stlouisx50

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
569
Location
St. Charles, Missouri
Talk Group 1011 had radio the radio repair (tool) call in to dispatch and then switch over to encrypted mode to see if dispatch could copy. Dispatch unfortunately could.

Now I have a headache from all of the encryption sound.

scanman1958, I too hear the FBI / DEA using encryption and analog combinations, however it's so noisy I lock it out.
 
Last edited:

shelleys1

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
173
Location
Ballwin, MO - We are moving to Austin, TX 1 Mar. 2
St. Louis City PD Encryption...

St. Louis City PD *IS* encrypted and has been so since sometime last year. The Feds did not mandate this - it is up to departments whether or not they wish to encrypt. I have my own personal ideas why City went encrypted but it's not something I wish to discuss on a message board. I think most people who live either in St. Louis City, County or nearby may already understand and that's all I have to say about it publicly except that it's a shame! :(

Shell

(Sorry I haven't been able to comment on this any sooner - I haven't been able to visit the boards in quite a while - but I'm finally back. *smile*)
 

lynxrufus

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
142
Location
St. Louis
St. Louis PD is not encrypted. Some transmissions from the cars sound like garbage but I'm not sure if it's encryption or simply a decoding failure due to signal distortion. Some car radios may be but dispatch is definatly not encrypted.
 
Last edited:

JoeyC

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,402
Location
San Diego, CA
St. Louis City PD *IS* encrypted and has been so since sometime last year.
St. Louis PD is not encrypted. Some transmissions from the cars sound like garbage but I'm not sure if it's encryption or simply a decoding failure due to signal distortion. Some car radios may be but dispatch is definatly not encrypted.
Gotta love RR forums for the conflicting information.
:mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top