STL City South Patrol

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kruser

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I see the STL P25 Systems South Patrol site 2-005 is showing as Connected/Current again with a CC of 774.08125 when using Pro96com tuned to the main North Patrols CC.

I tried monitoring all the listed frequencies of this 700 MHz system and cannot hear any control channel data or any signals for that matter.

Does anyone know if this tower is back online and transmitting again?

I never did get a super good signal from the south patrol tower but it was always good enough to monitor and produced a fairly decent decode rate that was not the best but also not horrible. I get nothing at all now.

So, is this system actually on the air and does anyone hear any voice traffic on it?
 

KeyWest35

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Kruser i am not as well versed and have as much knowledge in radio as you do but i am receiving South Patrol just fine on my PSR 800 as i type and i live in SW St Louis County in a deep valley. I have however been listening since i was about 10 and St Louis PD had only one frequency. The late sports announcer George Michaels mom got me interested and I did this on a Hallicrafters tunable radio. It inspired me to work in a field where i could be a part of the action. Years later even after having been a part and around it for years i still enjoy listening to all of the action. My wife has been extremely good tolerating my desire to listen sometimes rather loudly and telling her and others to hush so i didn't miss that important radio transmission.
 

dpm3

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9:50 AM: Listening from the Webster/Glendale/Oakland area, I get nothing. No voice transmissions and no data or carrier on any of the control channels. From the remarks here and elsewhere, use of this site seems to be random/sporadic (at best); perhaps reflecting whatever problems caused it to go silent some 14 months ago, or perhaps in accordance with a "plan" that makes sense to whomever in the City concocted it. When working, this site provides infinitely superior reception in this area to the other (North ?) transmitter, so it's silence is a great loss.
 

kruser

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9:50 AM: Listening from the Webster/Glendale/Oakland area, I get nothing. No voice transmissions and no data or carrier on any of the control channels. From the remarks here and elsewhere, use of this site seems to be random/sporadic (at best); perhaps reflecting whatever problems caused it to go silent some 14 months ago, or perhaps in accordance with a "plan" that makes sense to whomever in the City concocted it. When working, this site provides infinitely superior reception in this area to the other (North ?) transmitter, so it's silence is a great loss.
You nailed it on that one! The South Patrol site gave me a lower signal but was much more pleasent to listen too as it did not have all the multipath distortion problems that the North tower does.
I'm glad you checked this one as you should be able to hear it fine from your locaton. Unless they severly narrowed down the sites coverage whhich is possible of course.
And wow, I'd not realized it has been gone for 14 months now! I guess that is why I was all excited when I noticed the database for the city P25 site had been changed and no longer showed South Patrol as failed or off air (whatever it has said).
So I go to the old radio and activate the quickkey for that system and nothing. That's when I used an R9000 and tuned each frequency one at a time and still nothing yet Pro96com shows the site as active and current when I park it on the North towers control channel.

Do me a favor and send me a PM or start a new thread if you hear it come alive!
 

kruser

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Kruser i am not as well versed and have as much knowledge in radio as you do but i am receiving South Patrol just fine on my PSR 800 as i type and i live in SW St Louis County in a deep valley. I have however been listening since i was about 10 and St Louis PD had only one frequency. The late sports announcer George Michaels mom got me interested and I did this on a Hallicrafters tunable radio. It inspired me to work in a field where i could be a part of the action. Years later even after having been a part and around it for years i still enjoy listening to all of the action. My wife has been extremely good tolerating my desire to listen sometimes rather loudly and telling her and others to hush so i didn't miss that important radio transmission.
Interesting story about how you got into radio!
I also used a tuneable radio back in those days but I surely do not remeber the model. It would have been my dads and he would have kept it locked away from me otherwise I'd have had it taken apart!
He came home from work one day when I was not quite five years old and found his lawnmower spread across the garage in little pieces. It was me, I took it apart to see what made it tick and later did that with everything I could get my hands on. I had to learn somehow!
He would get that radio out and sit with me while I tuned and listened for hours each night. I was forever hooked little did I know.
I don't recall the frequency but I do remember the police could be heard near the top of the AM broadcast band. Then later we had a tuneable VHF radio but I don't recall which it was that I could listen to the city on. It was well before they had the multi channel 460 MHz radios though!

Anyway, the South patrol tower as it is called is a 700 MHz system and only used to broadcast the southern most districts like 3 and 1,2 for example. It has been off the air for so long that I really forget what all talkgroups were allowed on it.
Are you sure that is what you are hearing on your PSR800? The North tower is an 800 MHz site and broadcastsall the districts includng the south districts like 1,2 and 3.
As dpm3 mentioned, the South Patrol site has been off the air for about 14 months.
Are you certain that is what you are receiving? I know the 800 can be set to also show the frequencies along with the talkgroups. Try and turn that on and see if it shows 700 or 800 MHz frequencies in the display.

And I'm not sure I'm well versed and have much knowledge! I just go with what I know! Most was self taught and I've spent countless hours each night since childhood reading radio theory related books and what not and then worked with several of the areas amateur operators over the years although I'm sure many never even knew my name. I was just a kid after ll back then. I also made freinds with some of the areas broadcast station engineers both for radio and TV over the years. That was fun but it has been years now since I've visited a broadcast facility such as those. I'm sure many of the guys I've met over the years are long gone from this earth.
I was also big into mechanical type things when I was a child. Bowling alleys amazed me when I'd get to go back in the back and watch the pin setting equipment and ball return equipment do their jobs, I'd be so excited I'd damn near pee my pants!! I'd sit there for hours studying what made them work. When I actually bowled, I could not keep my mind off the equipment in the back so I never did bowl worth a crud!
My father owned a machine shop his entire life and I did work for him for a short time. I did not like standing at a machine all day though for hours on end so I told him sorry but this was not for me. He understoood and even told me there is no sense taking on a career that you will hate. When they let me repair broken machines, I was very happy though but most of the older guys would not trust me for anything. So I became a facilities manager later in life and get to mess with about everything under the sun that I consider fun incuding setting up radio systems from time to time even if they are used for only a couple of months before being torn down again. Some are only used for a week or two.

Radio is still more of a hobby for me than anything though. I never had a desire to talk so I never became licensed in the amateur service.
I own the equipment to talk around the world so if I ever do become inclined to become licensed, I'm ready. I've disabled the PA sections in all my radios so I don't accidently key one up though. I used to just put the mics away but so many radios have buttons on the front panel that will key them up and I don't care how careful one is, one day you will accidently hit one of those buttons! I know! I'm setup with a lot of receive only preamps and other equipment and what not so all it does is blow that equipment up when the RF hits it but it finally got to the point that I was sick of repairing the preamps so I took each and every radio apart one at a time and disabled the PA and driver sections. I kept a computer file with notes of what was done and also placed a specific to the radio note inside each radio for whomever gets them when I'm gone. I do own some very nice amateur gear and they are my favorites when tuning the HF bands.
Many of this was donated to me when the orignal owners went silent key. Offers to pay the remaining widows or families for the equipment were often turned down with the same old story that so and so would have wanted you to have this radio! Many of these guys were the ones that I figured did not know my name but I guess they saw my interest and names did not matter.
I do have radios on the air at home but they are on their own antennas and are used by the various radio licenses I hold for our work repeaters.

I is a very fun hobby but I sometimes wish I had all the money I've spent on it over all these years! I could not even begin to guess how much that would be though as it did not matter when I'd purchase new toys!
Nothing was going to stop me from getting a new radio or antenna etc.
The bed thing is I still think the same way today! I guess I'll never learn.
 

KeyWest35

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Kruser first of all i am receiving the 1st and 2nd districts right now. I hardly ever listen to the 3rd though the first and second are no longer quiet like they were years ago when they were retirement districts. I had to live in the city and am very familiar with the St Louis Police districts. I tried to set the view frequencie settings like you said but had no luck. I am better off not to mess with anything i am not real sure of. .I enjoyed hearing about your beginnings in radio listening as well. I think the old radio store downtown was Walter Ash where i bought my first recever. I often thought about getting a ham license but never did between work and family. By the way i cannot pickup St Charles or Starcom where i live but should pickup Jeffco when they go digital.
 

kruser

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Kruser first of all i am receiving the 1st and 2nd districts right now. I hardly ever listen to the 3rd though the first and second are no longer quiet like they were years ago when they were retirement districts. I had to live in the city and am very familiar with the St Louis Police districts. I tried to set the view frequencie settings like you said but had no luck. I am better off not to mess with anything i am not real sure of. .I enjoyed hearing about your beginnings in radio listening as well. I think the old radio store downtown was Walter Ash where i bought my first recever. I often thought about getting a ham license but never did between work and family. By the way i cannot pickup St Charles or Starcom where i live but should pickup Jeffco when they go digital.
Walter Ash! Boy that was a long time back!

If you have been hearing the 1st and 2nd districts just fine over the past year then you are certainly getting them via the North tower which is often considered the main tower. I think it's the tower on Arsenal at Sublette but I could be wrong on that. If that is not the North Tower than I guess I don't really know where the North tower is! I'm not even sure where the south patrol tower is located unless it's still near Carondelet Park where the district station used to be located. I used to be able to pickup live video feeds of wanted subjects pictures from the station at Carondelet Park years ago using my HBO receiver that I'd built. Remember those things? They had slatted antennas shaped kinda like part of a wine barrel. Then they had the service called PreVue which may have been the same thing. If you built your own, you could tune the VCO enough to receive the cities video lineups they broadcast each day. That was fun put you had to be in line of site of the small dishes they used. Heck, maybe it was Showtime. I don't truly remember now.
I think they used frequencies in the 2 GHz range. I remember they used a omni tower in Clayton for the signal for the box that I'd built and I think PreVue was something totally different that only came online on Channel 30's frequency after the OTA station signed off for the night. I forget how that all worked now but I do remember building the receiver as it used stripline technology and I had to purchase copper sheets or large copper clad PC board material for the antenna reflector. The radio board was made from double sided PC board material with copper on both sides. You had to drill holes every 1/4 inch and then solder in a solid copper thru the hole jumper so the two sides were grounded together well. Those high frequencies were very touchy back in those days! The darn thing worked great though and it just had one potentiometer knob used for tuning the VCO. As the sun set each night, you needed to re-tune as the components were not very stable to temperature change. I think it used a dual polarization antenna. Or was it circular polarization.

Anyway, the South Patrol tower site has been off the air for better than a year for some reason and only recently is showing as active again.
What was heard on the South Patrol site was also heard on the North site or tower. But not the other way around, the south patrol site was limited in what talkgroups were heard on it while most everything is heard from the North site with the exception of the Edward Jones system. I cannot get that site out here in Chesterfield for anything. I've read the dome site is low power and the antennas may be inside the dome even.
When you see South Patrol, that is just what someone named the site. Same for the North site. It does not mean that you will only hear the north districts on the north site. On the north site, you will hear everything for the entire city.

Have you tried the Edwardsville Starcom site? I get it rather well out here in Chesterfield.
Punch in 852.11250 and see if you get the CC signal. It is site 3-025 and is very active. It's kinda hard to figure out what talkgroups to associate with it though as Starcom has so many so program it with a wildcard so you will hear everything. Then you can use the talkgroup ID's to figure out what TG's should be added so the names show up on your display.

I honestly do not know how to manually add a frequency into the 800 so you may be better off just using EZscan and making sure the 3-025 Edwardsville/SIUE site is in one of your scanlists.
Of course if you have tried this and no signal then this whole thing is kinda a mute point!
I was actually very surprised at how well I get the Edwardsville site out here.

I used to be able to receive some of the other "local to us" Starcom sites but they took every one of them offline over a year ago and tied them all into the St. Clair simulcast site which I can barely hear. Not well enough though.

The Edwardsville site is a fun one if you can get it.

I'm not sure if I'll get the new Jeffco 800 sites here as they like too build them with the antennas aiming back into the coverage areas these days.
The St. Charles 700 MHz site is like that although I'm close enough and can hear it. I Must use a yagi aimed that direction.
They are doing this to try and keep the signals in the cities that licensed them so the frequencies can be reused again in a nearby neigboring city. I think we will see this type of locallized setup more and more as new systems come online. Then the system engineers will tilt the antennas for the best coverage into the needed areas plus will also reduce power to a level that just meets their needs. I think that new sites using a single omni antenna running at the licenses full allowed power are going to become a thing of the past. That would severly cripple what we can hear here.
As it is now, I get fantastic signals from all the Jeffco VHF repeater sites.
I know some people that live much closer to Jeffco and the signal is very distorted for them. So bad that they cannot monitor Jeffco. That is part of the anycast or whatever they call the system out there. I know they use multiple towers and the signal timing must be very precise otherise the officers also hear distortion. Once you get out of the area, a scanner cannot deal with the timing differences and you hear distortion or multiphasing.
I guess it works for me as I live far enough away that I'm only receiving from a single tower. That's my theory anyway.

I am anxious as to the new system once they get it up and running. I will miss it a bunch if I can no longer hear them. I used to live on the Jeffco and Frankin county line near Catawissa years ago. My Post Office was in Franklin County but my home had a Jeffco street address but only after Jeffco 911 came in and assigned me an actual house number and street name! I actually helped them map the area when they started that 911 project as my area was truly the boonies back then! We actually had to call 911 once and it took them over an hour to find the place. I guess their mapping system did not work out very well!
It was nice though, no homes for miles so no man made radio noise plus I had this huge field where I put my longwires up at. I miss that a bunch but do not miss the drive into St. Louis each day.
 

KeyWest35

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Kruser you explained a lot more about the St Louis system than i was aware of. After reading your comments you are much more radio and electronic savy then i have ever been. To be able to make a receiver and pick up the old daily lineup is impressive to me. I have made a few modifications to my faithful old Pro 2006 and some other scanners over the years and a Yaesu dual band radio so that i could use it as a two way on both the VHF and UHF bands. While i no longer have it lets just say had some fun with it a few years back on private sites that operated UHF frequencies especilly with people i knew who worked there.
I was out of the loop for probably 10 years or more with the hobby until i learned of the county's move to digital. I thought i better learn a little bit about it and be ready when they switch.. After reading your comments i have decided to learn more about digital systems as i never had a digital receiver till last July. You have inspired me get a good Yagi and some low loss LMR so that i may enjoy a better listening experience. I have no desire to build a Yagi so do you have any recommendations on a good Yagi? Unfortunately i am in a deep valley and never considered this when i bought the house a few years back but i am certainly not considering moving to a higher elevation. My wife would probably murder me at the thought.
 

kruser

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My wife would probably murder me at the thought.
Can't have that going on now!

I'll see what I can put together for you but first, some questions.

How high could you place this antenna and do you think the antenna itself will be above the surroundings like other homes and what not around you? If you can't get it up there, I doubt it will help much.
What system or systems would you use it for and can you hear anything at all now on the CC for those systems?
Basically if you have no signal at all now, a Yagi is not going to help much if at all. You need to have some signal to work with.

A good test is if you have a portable or one you can borrow and get up on your roof and see if it will pickup the signal you are after. Even a faint signal. If so, then a Yagi can make a huge difference. Also take a visual look in the direction you would need to aim the thing and see what may be blocking its path from the roof point of view.
You don't need a digital scanner for the test, just any portable that will accept the frequencies for the system you are after so you can actually hear the signal with you ears! If you still get nothing at all then I'd say you are SOL unless you wanted to invest in a tall tower or figure out a way to get this Yagi maybe 30 feet above your roofline. Of course you need to make sure there are no restrictions on this if your are in a HOA area with antenna restrictions.
Or will you be using it to try and improve a system that you are currently getting now.
I forget if you said what you are using for an antenna now.

When I first started thinking about a yagi, I did go on the roof and was surprised at how well I could hear the cities new P25 system. I then new right away that a yagi was going to be ordered!
I did put mine on a rotor as I also wanted to monitor St. Charles which for me is 180 degrees out from the STL system. That actually worked out some as a yagi also receives some signal from the backside. In my case, I was lucky and could hear most of what I wanted from St. Charles area while the yagi was aimed into the STL city. Some of the weaker systems out in St. Charles do require me to aim it that direction and then I lose the STL system.
So a rotor is something to think about also if you will use it for more than one system.
If it will be used for the new JEFFCO system,I'd wait for that to come online and see what kind of signal you get.

What is your current antenna now. If you are just using an indoor antenna, you may like a nice omni mounted on your roof much better than a yagi as you will not need to worry with aiming the thing as you switch systems. Plus the omni would be all band so one antenna for all.
Still use LMR400 coax though as you want as much signal as you can get at the 400 and higher ranges.

It does suck you are in a hole. I looked at a place once that was a very nice home but it was way down in a hole and only had an opening to the west where there were no systems worth monitoring. That was a shame as I loved the home but I was not going to give up my radio hobby.
It was so low that even a 100' tower would not have helped. The place basically sat right at the point that all the hills dropped down together from three sides. I called these hills mountains!
Some people said I was nuts for not buying the place but why would I want a place where I could not enjoy my number one hobby. I would have been very miserable there! It would be about the same as taking a job that you absolutely hate!

I have a funeral to attend today so I'll see what I can put together later this evening based on whatever info you can answer.

You can also send me a PM if you have anything you don't want blasted out all across the internet!

It's good to know you have tinkered with your radios before! Most would never dream of opening them up! I also have the old pro-2004 and 2006. Great old classics there and they still kick butt to this day. I use one mainly for rail monitoring and the other just sits mostly but is hooked up and ready to go. I'd say I use it more for military air band more than anything when I get into that. I switch around a lot. I can go for months monitoring just police and then something gets me and the next thing I know, I'm doing rail or maring or air band stuff. I do also have a bunch of old crystal scanners hooked up and running when I hear sirens.
One has all the state patrol low band crystals in it and then another is the central county fire for when I hear the sirens. I also have Chesterfield PD in both. This makes it very simple when the wife calls me at work wondering what all the sirens are. I tell her what knob to turn and she is good to go. If more than a single knob is needed though, I may as well forget about as she becomes so frustrated that I cannot get a word in sideways! So I setup the old crystal scanner with the fire just for her.
 

CORN

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Good info guys. I was in your fair city this past weekend for a couple of ball games and stayed at the Hilton downtown by Busch Stadium. I too couldn't find any CC on the south site in the 700 MHz range. The north site came in fairly well. However only things heard on there were all the Police dispatch TGID's, sheriff jail, Public works, and EMS dispatch. Maybe a few others. Where was the Fire Dept? Not one time did I hear the FD on the north system I had plugged in. Didn't hear any PD operations stuff like traffic control for the game either. I don't know what I was doing wrong. Thanks. It was interested on the dispatch channels how some cars were encrypted but others weren't.
 

kruser

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Good info guys. I was in your fair city this past weekend for a couple of ball games and stayed at the Hilton downtown by Busch Stadium. I too couldn't find any CC on the south site in the 700 MHz range. The north site came in fairly well. However only things heard on there were all the Police dispatch TGID's, sheriff jail, Public works, and EMS dispatch. Maybe a few others. Where was the Fire Dept? Not one time did I hear the FD on the north system I had plugged in. Didn't hear any PD operations stuff like traffic control for the game either. I don't know what I was doing wrong. Thanks. It was interested on the dispatch channels how some cars were encrypted but others weren't.
In the old days, the stuff at Busch was handled by the regular officers on patrol in the district. I guess that is District 9.
Then Busch Stadium had their internal security. I've not taken a scanner during a game in years so I'm not certain how they do things today.
I did see that a new talkgroup was just posted for Operations during the game you would have been at but I'm not sure these are just temp assignments subject to change or not.
As far as the city fire goes, I'm not certain they have committed to using the P25 system yet. I know they have been testing and the last I heard was a concern with dead spots in some of the downtown buildings.
The city fire talkgroup list was nearly empty until just the last few months when members here started adding what they were hearing.
I've added them all but I've personally only heard a very few actual fire broadcasts and all were also simulcast on the VHF analog system. Then I've also heard testing on several of the listed talkgroups. I've not heard a single fire comm that was only on the P25 system though. They were also heard on the analog system minus the slight delay that a digital system adds.
I feel city fire is just being smart and doing their homework first before someone gets hurt if the P25 system fails them.
I've also heard a rumor that they may remain on the old analog system for good but I suspect that is false with all the fire talkgroups showing up now.

Being as you mentioned hearing encryption, I assume you have a GRE made radio. Did you have a wildcard programmed so the scanner would hear any unlisted or unprogrammed talkgroups?
New talkgroups seem to pop up out of the blue when special events take place such as may have been the case during the home opener.

When the 700 system was on the air some time back now, anything heard on that system was also always heard on the North tower at the same time. I never heard anything on the 700 South Patrol tower that was not also heard on the North tower. The 700 MHz south tower did not carry all the traffic that the North tower did though. They limited what was allowed on the south tower. If you were monitoring the North tower, you should have heard everything as long as you had a wildcard programmed for the GRE radios or were scanning in Search mode on a Uniden.

There has also been a rumor floating that says the entire system will go fully encrypted but I cannot say I've noticed an increase in encrypted traffic since I first noticed it about a year ago now. It still seems to only occur on a limited amount of radios. I can only hope it stays the way it is now.

I hope you enjoyed your stay here as well as enjoyed the games. It sounds like you had some scanning fun regardless! It is a fun system to monitor at times. I know I've always enjoyed monitoring them for many many years.
 

CORN

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In the old days, the stuff at Busch was handled by the regular officers on patrol in the district. I guess that is District 9.
Then Busch Stadium had their internal security. I've not taken a scanner during a game in years so I'm not certain how they do things today.
I did see that a new talkgroup was just posted for Operations during the game you would have been at but I'm not sure these are just temp assignments subject to change or not.
As far as the city fire goes, I'm not certain they have committed to using the P25 system yet. I know they have been testing and the last I heard was a concern with dead spots in some of the downtown buildings.
The city fire talkgroup list was nearly empty until just the last few months when members here started adding what they were hearing.
I've added them all but I've personally only heard a very few actual fire broadcasts and all were also simulcast on the VHF analog system. Then I've also heard testing on several of the listed talkgroups. I've not heard a single fire comm that was only on the P25 system though. They were also heard on the analog system minus the slight delay that a digital system adds.
I feel city fire is just being smart and doing their homework first before someone gets hurt if the P25 system fails them.
I've also heard a rumor that they may remain on the old analog system for good but I suspect that is false with all the fire talkgroups showing up now.

Being as you mentioned hearing encryption, I assume you have a GRE made radio. Did you have a wildcard programmed so the scanner would hear any unlisted or unprogrammed talkgroups?
New talkgroups seem to pop up out of the blue when special events take place such as may have been the case during the home opener.

When the 700 system was on the air some time back now, anything heard on that system was also always heard on the North tower at the same time. I never heard anything on the 700 South Patrol tower that was not also heard on the North tower. The 700 MHz south tower did not carry all the traffic that the North tower did though. They limited what was allowed on the south tower. If you were monitoring the North tower, you should have heard everything as long as you had a wildcard programmed for the GRE radios or were scanning in Search mode on a Uniden.

There has also been a rumor floating that says the entire system will go fully encrypted but I cannot say I've noticed an increase in encrypted traffic since I first noticed it about a year ago now. It still seems to only occur on a limited amount of radios. I can only hope it stays the way it is now.

I hope you enjoyed your stay here as well as enjoyed the games. It sounds like you had some scanning fun regardless! It is a fun system to monitor at times. I know I've always enjoyed monitoring them for many many years.
Thanks a bunch. Your right in my using a Gre radio (PSR-500) and yes I was operating with a wildcard TGID but not once did a Fire TGID pop up. I never took my radio to the game so yes, for special events channels I didn't really have the time to check for. I did some conventional scanning and heard what I thought was fire dispatch on a conventional freq. Oh well I'll be back before the season's over. Thanks again for the response.
 
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