Surely someon will add TRBO soon?

[phillydjdan]

Care to post the legal citation that states "receiving" a trunked system is illegal in the USA? I must have missed that e-mail. I fail to see how "receiving" (the very thing scanners legally do) is the same as "accessing". If you're going to rant, at least have some facts to back up your claims.

Because using an radio to access said systems, without the permission of the operator of the system is illegal. Even if you have TX disabled, your still illegally accessing an radio system. I love all the nuts on other boards that brag outright about buying radios and programming them to access P25 systems, MotoTRBO systems, NexEDGE systems. One day, there will be nothing left to access because of this constant illegal action. This is one of the reasons, in fact that vendors such as Motorola, and Harris now make it standard for encryption to be on on all radios, and systems they sell. Its left up to each user of the radios/systems to turn it back off.

Those of you that have actual permission to access systems using actual radios due to your involvement are of course fine and dandy. No complaints there. Its you other "geniuses" that are in reality just hackers with another toy. You don't think about the problems you can, and often do, cause for the radio systems your freakin with. Systems are designed with specific numbers of radios and users in mind. And an certain amount of security. Think about that for an while folks. You all throw fits cause the NSA and others is "Big Brothering" your lives, yet you think its okay to play around with radio systems that are not yours. Keep on playing like your entitled to monitor everything any way you want to. ECPA is about to get an whole lot tougher very soon, and more and more systems will go with tighter and tighter security. Think before you act guys. Keep complaining about the hobby being dead, but next time think about the real reasons behind that...


Rant off.

 

[RayAir]

Lol. It is not illegal to passively monitor a system with a real radio. Where did you get that info from??

Cap+ does not require any affiliation and TX is disabled.
Con+ you conventionally scan with TX disabled.
Conventional requires no affiliation and TX is disabled.

No radio IDs show up on their system. There's zero affiliation. It's no different than using a scanner.

I've heard good things about the new Tytera MD-380.

Might have to try one out.

 

[INDY72]

Scanners are covered under ECPA, while use of an actual radio can get you in this one: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

 

[W8RMH]

Because using an radio to access said systems, without the permission of the operator of the system is illegal. Even if you have TX disabled, your still illegally accessing an radio system. I love all the nuts on other boards that brag outright about buying radios and programming them to access P25 systems, MotoTRBO systems, NexEDGE systems. One day, there will be nothing left to access because of this constant illegal action. This is one of the reasons, in fact that vendors such as Motorola, and Harris now make it standard for encryption to be on on all radios, and systems they sell. Its left up to each user of the radios/systems to turn it back off.

Those of you that have actual permission to access systems using actual radios due to your involvement are of course fine and dandy. No complaints there. Its you other "geniuses" that are in reality just hackers with another toy. You don't think about the problems you can, and often do, cause for the radio systems your freakin with. Systems are designed with specific numbers of radios and users in mind. And an certain amount of security. Think about that for an while folks. You all throw fits cause the NSA and others is "Big Brothering" your lives, yet you think its okay to play around with radio systems that are not yours. Keep on playing like your entitled to monitor everything any way you want to. ECPA is about to get an whole lot tougher very soon, and more and more systems will go with tighter and tighter security. Think before you act guys. Keep complaining about the hobby being dead, but next time think about the real reasons behind that...


Rant off.

I was just commenting, in irony, on all the statements in this thread (as well as others) in reference to cheap 2-way radios to use to monitor DMR in lieu of a scanner. I have mentioned the radio connection issue in other threads myself, and was told I was nuts, by admins too. I didn't mean to upset you.

 

[Voyager]

I'm still trying to figure out the "access the system without a transmitter" issue, as I REALLY want to patent that concept and sell radios (or license the patent) that can access a system with the battery drain of a transmitter. This would be for authorized users.

I haven't heard anything this 'good' since I was told that scanners put a strain on the trunking system due to loading issues.

 

[mikewazowski]

This is one of the reasons, in fact that vendors such as Motorola, and Harris now make it standard for encryption to be on on all radios, and systems they sell. Its left up to each user of the radios/systems to turn it back off.

This is the other part of the rant I had problems with.

I've never seen a Motorola radio that came with encryption turned on right from the factory.

It might be in the feature set but it's not turned on. That must be done when the radio is setup by the agency that purchased it. Just think about it, if all these radios came with encryption turned on, how hard do you think it would be to figure out the default key that they all ship with?

As for using a commercial radio to access a conventional DMR/P25 channel receive only, I think we all know that's a load of hooey.

 

[phillydjdan]

+1 Voyager and Mike. It bugs me to no end when people come on here trying to spread propaganda. It confuses people when they are here to learn and they've got 100 people telling them one thing and 1 or 2 people telling them the opposite.

 

[phillydjdan]

And I might add that the legal citation posted above is in regards to INTERCEPTING and DISCLOSING communications. Let's go back to elementary school and flush this one down the toilet, shall we?

in·ter·cept, verb
1. obstruct (someone or something) so as to prevent them from continuing to a destination.

dis·close, verb
1. make (secret or new information) known.

So, at which point does listening to a radio meet the definition of either of those words? I listen, I don't obstruct the traffic. That would be keying up over someone. I also don't disclose what I hear. That would be going up to the drug dealer on the corner and saying "Hey buddy, the cops are watching you". I don't do that either. So... exactly where am I breaking the law? I still don't see it.

Look, you can say whatever you want, but the truth is passive monitoring is NOT illegal. The only gray area I've seen is the method some folks use to obtain system keys. But, if a system admin gives them to you, that's not illegal either, now is it? And even if that person DID obtain system keys without authorization, that's a civil matter that big M would have to pursue, not the local police. Sorry, but until my little red light on the top of my radio lights up, I've done nothing wrong, and other users who want to setup similar radios won't be either.

 

[K2KOH]

This is getting ridiculous. I have two counties next to me now that are going to it, one has already switched, and my own will be going to it in the near future. If I search the Uhf business bands about 90% of them are using it.

What the **** is the issue? Why does everyone refuse to support this mode?

Don't call me Shirley. Sorry, I couldn't resist

 

[mancow]

This is the other part of the rant I had problems with.

I've never seen a Motorola radio that came with encryption turned on right from the factory.

It might be in the feature set but it's not turned on. That must be done when the radio is setup by the agency that purchased it. Just think about it, if all these radios came with encryption turned on, how hard do you think it would be to figure out the default key that they all ship with?

As for using a commercial radio to access a conventional DMR/P25 channel receive only, I think we all know that's a load of hooey.

Exactly, the county near me that recently went TRBO is running without encryption although it's easy enough for them to do so.

I saw this week's FCC grants in an automated list I'm subscribed to. A good portion were emissions designation changes indicating numerous municipalities and counties moving to TRBO with the rest being railroads moving to NXDN.

It's getting to the point around here that the only thing left accessible by a scanner are P25 trunked systems.

 

[mancow]

Don't call me Shirley. Sorry, I couldn't resist

 

[prplehz]

Because using an radio to access said systems, without the permission of the operator of the system is illegal. Even if you have TX disabled, your still illegally accessing an radio system. I love all the nuts on other boards that brag outright about buying radios and programming them to access P25 systems, MotoTRBO systems, NexEDGE systems. One day, there will be nothing left to access because of this constant illegal action. This is one of the reasons, in fact that vendors such as Motorola, and Harris now make it standard for encryption to be on on all radios, and systems they sell. Its left up to each user of the radios/systems to turn it back off.



Rant off.

Not true. Any transmission that comes onto your property may be monitored as long as you do not decrypt encoded transmissions. There is no law saying a person can't listen to a radio broadcast with no permission. Permission is given when their radio signal trespasses on ones property.

 

[phillydjdan]

Where's my "like" button??? lol

 

[trentbob]

... hey Dan, I made reference to you on the "who has a 1095 thread"... just a note here guys in this very interesting discussion... when Trenton, NJ police went digital some 15 years ago with a system no scanner could monitor we (my newspaper) threatened legal action on first amendment rights and the Mayor gave us two police radios disabled for transmit that could only pick up F-1... if anything got interesting they switched to F-2 so we couldn't hear them but at least we could hear the car wrecks and the first dispatch info...

 

[phillydjdan]

I will check that out later. It's hot out and I have a pool, so...

 

[JoeyC]

Not true. Any transmission that comes onto your property may be monitored as long as you do not decrypt encoded transmissions. There is no law saying a person can't listen to a radio broadcast with no permission. Permission is given when their radio signal trespasses on ones property.

Well, it has nothing to do with radio signals trespassing on your property. With that logic, you could say you can capture an encrypted signal and manipulate it because it is on your property to do as you wish.

You can take your receiver onto anyone elses property and still be within the law as far as listening to radio waves.

 

[trentbob]

... I'd love to join you in the pool Dan... but I'm going back to the river in Bristol where the divers may have found the body of the man who drowned this AM... sorry for going off topic guys, I'm outa here...

 

[phillydjdan]

Sounds like they had another one just a little while ago. Summer is going to keep them busy, that's for sure. Meanwhile, I'm floating in the crystal clear waters of a 16,000 gallon pool versus a dirty, brown river LOL. Sorry to go off topic...

Anyway, back to DMR. My suggestion is also to look into the less expensive DMR radio offerings. I have DMR mobiles in VHF and UHF, and after spending lots of time discovering some area DMR users that were not in the database, I was able to program them up for no-transmit in no time. One of these days the scanner guys will finally wake up and join the party with DMR and NXDN, but until then the commercial radios will work just as well. Even better, actually...

 

[KC1UA]

Our regional electricity provider switched to DMR a few years ago. I've continued to monitor them with DSD and DSD+ but I have long considered a DMR portable so I don't have go go crazy with a laptop setup during a power failure. Here on Cape Cod if someone sneezes violently the power is prone to going out, so it's nice to know where they're working and what the issue is. Additionally there are other entities I like to occasionally monitor as well, and from an amateur radio standpoint the DMR-MARC network exists far and wide, so it seems like a win-win to me.

It should be noted that one does not just turn on these portables and have things work. Some research is required regarding color codes and slots being used. The software seems to be easy to set up and defeating transmit is a click of a box.

I'm looking forward to giving this a try with a MD-380 at some point in the near future. For the short $$ it's worth it.

 

[Voyager]

Not true. Any transmission that comes onto your property may be monitored as long as you do not decrypt encoded transmissions. There is no law saying a person can't listen to a radio broadcast with no permission.

You should preface that with "In the USA..."

Other countries have laws against monitoring at all.