• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Tait versus the other big guys

RCBi-Dave

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2026
Messages
32
Reaction score
22
Location
Illinois
I work with a consultant who is working with a county getting bids on new radios. Yesterday we unboxed Tait, Harris and Motorola portables for the 7 eval teams.
The Kenwood dealer forgot to ship his radios. Each vendor is going to do a presentation Friday and the teams will have 3 weeks to test them.
For a true performance evaluation of each radio product, all of the radios should be setup and optimized by an experienced technician into a baseline of performance. This is what radio dealers were required to do many years ago, but many cut corners nowadays to maximize profits $$$. Mass production can make good products, and skilled technicians can make them even better into great products.

JVC Kenwood Viking (aka EF Johnson Viking) also has excellent radio products that I would recommend to evaluate in addition to all of the other brands and Kenwood. Kenwood Communications and EF Johnson Viking are different entities and both are owned by JVC Kenwood. The EF Johnson Viking radios are known for their superior loud background noise canceling feature as compared to any Motorola product. The Armada software and fleet management is also highly rated.

With Motorola, you will never pay more anywhere else guaranteed! Decent products in general, and once you buy their products, you will be married to their CONSTANT merry-go-round of firmware/software/bug updates and dreaded planned product obsolescence when least expected. Motorola now has a very large marketing department and no one left in the quality control department which is evident with the constant software bug fixes. Motorola does not "taste test" their products before selling them, and rely solely on customer complaints. Not if, but when you call in with a problem, you will always be told (scripted) that you are the first to report that problem.

Motorola APX N50 and APX N70 OEM antenna size and performance is ok, but can be greatly improved with a tuned C78 antenna. All Motorola products require a full recalibration/realignment maintenance every 1-2 years to maintain their public safety level of performance. Without the maintenance, the radio performance will constantly degrade rapidly over time (as if planned) which is when the sales department steps in to tell you that your "radios" and "frequencies" are all worn out and need to be replaced. This is from the Motorola sales playbook.

L3Harris, good products but they are trying to be just like Motorola in every aspect. Their portable radio antennas all have an odd proprietary connection style.

Tait, overall good products but usually require optimization out of the box. I have found the performance with their OEM antennas (from China) is less than average. Use of tuned aftermarket antennas brings the performance level way up to compete with everyone else. FYI, Tait (New Zealand) and L3Harris (New York, USA) have a partnership together that allows their dealers to sell both brands side by side. Tait sought this agreement in 2016 to expand sales in North America and USA.

Kenwood, excellent overall stable products with lower overall costs. Their radio products last a very long time with general maintenance and do not have as many self-inflicted software/firmware/bug issues as Motorola or L3Harris.

Someone mentioned the emergency button looked harder to press on one than the others.
I read AARs on firefighter injuries and deaths, don't recall any where the FF used the button instead of using the mic to yell mayday.
My years of monitoring have only heard false activations when the radio gets bumped.
In our area the bright orange emergency button is known only as a "Dispatcher Appreciation Button". Hit it a few times daily to let the dispatchers know that you care about them!

Best regards
 

RCBi-Dave

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2026
Messages
32
Reaction score
22
Location
Illinois
I like the N50 size and menu screen but could not find a way to read signal strength. I did figure out how to read it on the Harris, then the pizza guy came and dropped off lunch, never got around to looking at the Tait.
I have a few questions

Does the N50 have that dBm feature? I heard from our county tech it does not meet NFPA specs but his N70 does.
Why didn't my pizza have extra sauce?
Have you guys seen any problems with Tait 9900s over the XL200 or N series?
How to Check the Motorola APX N50 RSSI
Press the lower 2-dot button located on the side of the radio.
The display should show the current channel name along with the RSSI value.

RSSI Values
Best Signal: Values over 100 indicate excellent signal strength.
Better Signal; Values over 80
Good Signal: Values over 60 are acceptable
Bad Signal: Values below 60 may indicate poor/weak signal quality

Was your pizza sauce sweet or salty?

Best Regards
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
2,014
Reaction score
1,013
Location
Pittsboro IN
I was trying to find the dBm reading on the front screen, did not think about side buttons.
Sauce was good, just not enough.
Appreciate your comments. Motorola's bid was well under the Indiana QPA pricing.
 

RCBi-Dave

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2026
Messages
32
Reaction score
22
Location
Illinois
Motorola's bid was well under the Indiana QPA pricing.
After reading this about Motorola's bid, my dashboard warning light "Check Your Wallet" started to flash bright and it would not reset.

Watch out, Motorola likes to do creative low ball pricing, as it is in their DNA. I have seen this many many times.

The worst Motorola APX low ball pricing I have seen is where they supplied the absolute lowest capacity slim batteries available with standard battery chargers to a large public safety agency. This tactic allowed more APX portables to be sold within the allowed budget. Motorola sales was proud to announce "See, more APX radios for your money"! The new APX portables were only lasting 3-4 hours per slim battery. The agency was told by Motorola that they must now purchase additional batteries for each officers APX portable to be able to last a standard 12 hour shift. Motorola was totally ok with each officer having to carry 2, 3, or 4 extra batteries.

Someone discovered that this low ball order was a second order for APX portables, and it was to match all of the specifications of the first order. Motorola ended up replacing all of the low capacity batteries and standard chargers at no cost with higher capacity IMPRESS batteries and the associated IMPRESS battery chargers.

And I wonder why I no longer receive Christmas cards from Motorola?

Best Regards
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
2,014
Reaction score
1,013
Location
Pittsboro IN
Diversified electronics in GA would tell agencies to buy the radio only, then Diversified would sell batteries, chargers and mics at a discount off list.
The sales guy said it would knock off a few hundred $ per radio.
Someone else mentioned the
"oh you wanted it to work on THAT system" option was not included in their quote.
 

Project25_MASTR

TX-COMU
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
4,797
Reaction score
1,374
Location
Texas
For a true performance evaluation of each radio product, all of the radios should be setup and optimized by an experienced technician into a baseline of performance. This is what radio dealers were required to do many years ago, but many cut corners nowadays to maximize profits $$$. Mass production can make good products, and skilled technicians can make them even better into great products.

JVC Kenwood Viking (aka EF Johnson Viking) also has excellent radio products that I would recommend to evaluate in addition to all of the other brands and Kenwood. Kenwood Communications and EF Johnson Viking are different entities and both are owned by JVC Kenwood. The EF Johnson Viking radios are known for their superior loud background noise canceling feature as compared to any Motorola product. The Armada software and fleet management is also highly rated.

With Motorola, you will never pay more anywhere else guaranteed! Decent products in general, and once you buy their products, you will be married to their CONSTANT merry-go-round of firmware/software/bug updates and dreaded planned product obsolescence when least expected. Motorola now has a very large marketing department and no one left in the quality control department which is evident with the constant software bug fixes. Motorola does not "taste test" their products before selling them, and rely solely on customer complaints. Not if, but when you call in with a problem, you will always be told (scripted) that you are the first to report that problem.

Motorola APX N50 and APX N70 OEM antenna size and performance is ok, but can be greatly improved with a tuned C78 antenna. All Motorola products require a full recalibration/realignment maintenance every 1-2 years to maintain their public safety level of performance. Without the maintenance, the radio performance will constantly degrade rapidly over time (as if planned) which is when the sales department steps in to tell you that your "radios" and "frequencies" are all worn out and need to be replaced. This is from the Motorola sales playbook.

L3Harris, good products but they are trying to be just like Motorola in every aspect. Their portable radio antennas all have an odd proprietary connection style.

Tait, overall good products but usually require optimization out of the box. I have found the performance with their OEM antennas (from China) is less than average. Use of tuned aftermarket antennas brings the performance level way up to compete with everyone else. FYI, Tait (New Zealand) and L3Harris (New York, USA) have a partnership together that allows their dealers to sell both brands side by side. Tait sought this agreement in 2016 to expand sales in North America and USA.

Kenwood, excellent overall stable products with lower overall costs. Their radio products last a very long time with general maintenance and do not have as many self-inflicted software/firmware/bug issues as Motorola or L3Harris.


In our area the bright orange emergency button is known only as a "Dispatcher Appreciation Button". Hit it a few times daily to let the dispatchers know that you care about them!

Best regards
I did find something Motorola does way cheaper (if you know about it). Radio Management versus EFJ's Armada Server, well actually CPS and firmware entirely. APX CPS and firmware is free these days, Armada is not. Radio Management is free for 100 radios (though you can get more licenses given to you) and Armada Server only lets you do 20 radios for free.

That being said, you have to be careful about the blanket statement of N30/N50/N70 radios have greatly improved performance with the C78 antenna because not everyone has them in 700/800 MHz because not all trunking systems are 700/800 MHz which is something made multiple BDA/DAS system installers learn the hard way usually ending in the phrase, "We didn't know you could do P25 trunking in VHF or UHF."

Also, you can't really say the "OEM" antenna as the radios don't come with an antenna (that's standard across almost all manufacturers)...that's a line item that must be added on the quote so theoretically it's up to the purchaser to choose (though typically chosen by the sales rep).

I would also add, stating that the RSSI button is on the side, is a crapshoot as like all modern radios, it's 100% programmer configurable. My predecessor liked to put the RSSI button on the side on the 2-dot button, I prefer the purple button (traditional monitor button for conventional), one of my peer's put it in the menu, another peer didn't program it at all. Neither is right or wrong...our system programming standards don't define the function having to be set unlike the zone name, channel names and 16th channel of every zone. So it will really depend on who did the programming.
 

RCBi-Dave

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2026
Messages
32
Reaction score
22
Location
Illinois
I did find something Motorola does way cheaper (if you know about it). Radio Management versus EFJ's Armada Server, well actually CPS and firmware entirely. APX CPS and firmware is free these days, Armada is not. Radio Management is free for 100 radios (though you can get more licenses given to you) and Armada Server only lets you do 20 radios for free.
Motorola Solutions Inc. (MSI) is definitely NOT the same Motorola company that built and had an excellent reputation from decades ago. With a private equity firm now in the driver seat, their #1, #2, #3, #4, # . . . . priorities are pure profit. The MSI marketing department was expanded and the MSI quality control department was vaporized.

With MSI, actually nothing will be cheaper or free since the bottom line is where it still all comes together $$$ with creative and sneaky marketing.

With Motorola, you will never pay more anywhere else guaranteed!

I am completely aware of the MSI Radio Management System (RMS) creature since I am responsible for over 3000+ radios on one of the very first operational RMS in the whole country. When the RMS equipment was delivered in 2014, there was only one MSI Engineer in Plantation, FL who understood the system (since he developed it), and refused to speak with any customers to help with any equipment installation questions (quote: it was not his job and pay grade). No one else was home at MSI to help. I was forced to read a very thick MSI RMS engineering concept manual along with a non-disclosure agreement to reverse engineer the RMS system and complete the install as a standalone onsite local network. Today the RMS is located "within the cloud" (unhackable? Trust us, you're in good hands, ha!) with its many cloud downtime defects added to the software/firmware mix mess. When MSI RMS works, it is really good, and when it doesn't, it is really really bad if not absolutely the worst nightmare!

Many radio techs working with RMS, have gone bald after tearing their hair out with the frequent MSI system failures.

The reason the Motorola software and firmware evolved into becoming "free and downloadable", is because the versions changed so often (sometimes weekly) that it became extremely costly to the end users. Also, the previous software subscription service and associated mailing was not fast enough to keep up with the extreme amount of frequent version changes. Some of the software and firmware versions were so bad (v17 & v19 era) that they actually bricked the APX radios. The dead APX radios required a trip to the Motorola depot repair service in El Paso TX known as Mexorola! When the repaired radios came back, the firmware versions were always changed to newer versions that were not even published or available to anyone beside Mexorola and you had wait for the software version that matches the firmware version. Sometimes the new software version was not made available for 2 months causing radios to be downed due to not being able to program them after the Mexorola repairs. FYI, Mexorola is a contractor that works for MSI and will not communicate or work directly with customers. Everything has to go through MSI to get to Mexorola. Hence, the CONSTANT merry-go-round of firmware/software/bug updates and dreaded planned product obsolescence when least expected.

I also assist with a local County Sheriff's radio network that has their own county wide Kenwood EFJohnson Viking 700/800 P25 Phase 2 system (EFJ) with the Armada Management System. They are very pleased with their system operation, communications coverage, the total cost of the radio equipment/software/firmware/Armada Management, and the much lower ongoing cost of maintenance as compared to MSI. The EFJ equipment is also programmed to work on the statewide MSI system with no issues. The EFJ equipment has had very few software and firmware changes over the last 6 years. The complete bottom line cost for everything was 40% less than a comparable MSI system.

That being said, you have to be careful about the blanket statement of N30/N50/N70 radios have greatly improved performance with the C78 antenna because not everyone has them in 700/800 MHz because not all trunking systems are 700/800 MHz which is something made multiple BDA/DAS system installers learn the hard way usually ending in the phrase, "We didn't know you could do P25 trunking in VHF or UHF."
Yes, it is true that there are Vhf P25 and UHF P25 trunked radio systems. This is when Motorola sales department steps in to tell you that, "your frequencies are all worn out" and need to be replaced with the new 700/800 frequencies. This is from the Motorola sales playbook.

Also, you can't really say the "OEM" antenna as the radios don't come with an antenna (that's standard across almost all manufacturers)...that's a line item that must be added on the quote so theoretically it's up to the purchaser to choose (though typically chosen by the sales rep).
It is a shame that manufacturers no longer place any emphasis on the portable radio antennas seeing that the overall expensive radio performance is totally dependent upon the quality of the antenna. So, they treat the portable radio antenna choice with a separate line item as an afterthought. This is where GE always prevails, Good Enough!

I would also add, stating that the RSSI button is on the side, is a crapshoot as like all modern radios, it's 100% programmer configurable.
Yes, it is true that the RSSI indication can be programmed to use most any button on the radio instead of just the side bottom 2-dot button default. Since the radios are for evaluation with speedway_navigators project, I have a gut feeling that the MSI/dealer did not put a lot of effort into the programming to be fancy. But you never know with fingers crossed, and it could be a crap shoot.

I work with a consultant who is working with a county getting bids on new radios. Yesterday we unboxed Tait, Harris and Motorola portables for the 7 eval teams.
The Kenwood dealer forgot to ship his radios. Each vendor is going to do a presentation Friday and the teams will have 3 weeks to test them.
After reading all of my comments above, please make sure that you have included time off for the technician/employee therapy sessions in the total project cost if you choose Motorola/MSI.

One more important tidbit; avoid downloading and adopting any MSI software/firmware versions created between June and September each year when college IT interns are hired by MSI to do the software/firmware work with no oversight or taste testing before launch.

The MSI software/firmware versions that come out December through April and performed by the adults, seem to have a lower number of issues. Almost as if they send them first to an "Orkin" pest control department to get the bugs out before launch.

Summary, it is all about the pizza sauce!

Best Regards
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
2,014
Reaction score
1,013
Location
Pittsboro IN
I was in a meeting with fire chiefs and Kankakee 911 folks when a chief asked about a Viking system in a neighboring county. The Motorola sales rep said "we can't guarantee a competitor's performance on our system."
 

KevinC

32D2T/957.282
Super Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
14,725
Reaction score
24,282
Location
I'm everywhere Focker!
I was in a meeting with fire chiefs and Kankakee 911 folks when a chief asked about a Viking system in a neighboring county. The Motorola sales rep said "we can't guarantee a competitor's performance on our system."
And you expected them to say "They work great! Please buy all your subscribers from EFJ."

But seriously, I completely understand them saying that. I had to prove a huge multi-site system had no simulcast issues because BK radios didn't work very well at all on them. I had to prove OmniLink (multi-zone) was working as expected because BK radios had issues and would roam over to a zone they weren't allowed on and get stuck. I had to do PM's on 12 (13?) sites worth of P25 trunking because Kenwood subscribers had issues roaming (nothing was wrong with the sites and every other manufacturer worked just fine). So yeah, I completely understand it.
 

Troppo

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2023
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Tait is good for P25, but I have found that their DMR tx and rx audio is not as clear and clean as the big M.

TM9300 side by side with a DM4601...the difference in audio is very noticeable.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
2,014
Reaction score
1,013
Location
Pittsboro IN
I also assist with a local County Sheriff's radio network that has their own county wide Kenwood EFJohnson Viking 700/800 P25 Phase 2 system (EFJ) with the Armada Management System.
One of our members here (sorry about not returning your text) has been busy replacing Atlas 4500 repeaters from a batch with defective boards, I think it was the PA. Have you seen that?
I worked with the shop that installed and maintains the Newton county IN Atlas system, they have not seen any problems, must have been a different batch of radios.
 
Top