Technician privileges

[bill4long]

I think the amateur radio licenses need to be a bit harder to get. Like I said, the current tests are very light on Part 97 rules. I still think there needs to be one license, and the test needs to be harder than it is. Not to keep people out of the hobby, but to make sure that those who do join know what they are doing.

Sensible IMO, but I would prefer a two license scheme, Tech and General. Tech privileges remain as they are. General gets all of HF. The current Tech test remains the same, but the General test would be more challenging, somewhere between the current General and Extra. Will this happen or any such radical overhaul? Very doubtful. Too many Advanced and Extras would complain to the heavens, blame the ARRL (which has considerable clout with the FCC), and pull their memberships, sending the ARRL employees to the unemployment office. I do think it likely that Techs will get some additional HF phone and data privileges with power limits within the next few years. Icom et al need to sell more radios.

 

[mmckenna]

Sensible IMO, but I would prefer a two license scheme, Tech and General. Tech privileges remain as they are. General gets all of HF. The current Tech test remains the same, but the General test would be more challenging, somewhere between the current General and Extra. Will this happen or any such radical overhaul? Very doubtful. Too many Advanced and Extras would complain to the heavens, blame the ARRL (which has considerable clout with the FCC), and pull their memberships, sending the ARRL employees to the unemployment office. I do think it likely that Techs will get some additional HF phone and data privileges with power limits within the next few years. Icom et al need to sell more radios.

Yeah, I'd be fine either way. I have my licenses and not going to change anything.

But it's fun to discuss.

I agree, there -will- be changes. I'm sure there are those that will throw a hissy fit about it, but that just adds to the fun. If you ain't pissing someone off, you probably are not doing it right.

 

[WB9YBM]

Well...right, if you agree with how the current privileges are set up. I personally do not. As has been mentioned, it is supposed to be incentive licensing. Giving only CW privileges, and 10m privileges is great if this was 1920. How is that an incentive to get people to upgrade to General or higher? Allow techs. voice privileges on HF and call it a day. There's absolutely no reason not to, except you want to limit people, simply for the sake of limiting people. Makes no sense.

...or that's the encouragement for them to upgrade!

 

[belvdr]

It's all about time and place. I'd wager a bet that CW was considered a more advanced form of communication then. Maybe the test should go back to practical standards and have something more common to today's environment, say managing a digital contact, including setup of the gear.

 

[alcahuete]

...or that's the encouragement for them to upgrade!

Or it might keep them on the various VHF/UHF digital modes like they are now, with no interest of ever using HF.

Whether the licensing and privileges get changed or not in the future, is a debatable subject (obviously), but the fact remains: the General and Extra tests are available today for anyone wanting to get those privileges now.

Did I say somewhere that they weren't?

Some might say that there it makes good sense: the operators on HF don't want people down there who are unwilling to do some study and pass the General test. It's not merely about "limiting people." It's about limiting certain kinds of people who whine about studying for and taking rather easy tests. "If you can't do a little study and take the General test, yeah, we don't want you here." You may not like it, but it's perfectly sensible from the point of view of the current Generals and above.

No...it's about limiting people. @mmckenna summed it up perfectly. There's nothing about the General test or Extra test that makes you a better ham, or somehow more worthy of using voice on HF. It's just silly. Perhaps you can explain what exactly in those two exams allows people to be worthy of using voice, instead of CW? Are there a ton of questions on how to set up your microphone properly, or what is it exactly? Oh wait...they can already use voice on 10m, so it can't be that. Hmmmmmm.....

 

[K9DWB]

Just my personal observation, and as I've taken both Tech and General exams in the past few months, I can't honestly say there was much difference in these 2 exams but were for quite different ham levels as it stands now. At least they're supposed to be different, if we suppose General opens roughly 80% of the whole Amateur spectrum up vs whatever Tech dishes out. Originally, I had planned on taking the Tech and General exams at the same sitting, but it didn't pan out that way for whatever reason, time constraints or something. I'd asked to take both when scheduling myself for that exam time that became Tech only.

What about a 2 class like some are saying? Combine Tech and General, calling it whatever they wish as the lower of the 2. Amateur Extra stays the same.

 

[mmckenna]

There's nothing about the General test or Extra test that makes you a better ham, or somehow more worthy of using voice on HF. It's just silly. Perhaps you can explain what exactly in those two exams allows people to be worthy of using voice, instead of CW? Are there a ton of questions on how to set up your microphone properly, or what is it exactly? Oh wait...they can already use voice on 10m, so it can't be that. Hmmmmmm.....

And to reinforce this, the people that sit and take all the tests at the same time. They are not better operators, they just memorized more info.
Not putting anyone down who's done this, I'm impressed that someone can remember that much stuff and is willing to spend that much time on it.

But, simply passing the test doesn't equal real world experience. The ham tests are nothing more than regurgitating multiple choice questions with at least 70% correct rate. And getting the license is nothing more than an open door to start learning more.

 

[AK9R]

Two classes:

Basic -- 35 question test focusing on rules and safety, all bands, all modes, 100 watts output power maximum, can proctor exam sessions but not grade tests or sign CSCEs
General -- 50 question test including electronics and antenna theory, all bands, all modes, 1500 watts output power maximum

The challenge will be the transition plan from the current licenses, which includes Novice and Advanced licensees, to the new licensing scheme.

Oh, you have to get 75% (rounded down to the next whole number) of the questions correct in the current testing scheme. That standard should continue.

 

[mmckenna]

Oh, you have to get 75% (rounded down to the next whole number) of the questions correct in the current testing scheme. That standard should continue.

I knew it was seventy something….

I think getting 3/4 of the questions correct is sufficient, but not impressive. Again, proof that it's just a key to get in the door, not a sign of any experience or expertise. Hams using license class as some form of hierarchy doesn't make sense to me, especially when the requirements are so lax. I don't rate another ham by their license class, but by their proven knowledge and willingness to learn. I think we've all run across those amateurs that assume they are experts and will argue to the death over things, even when they are proven wrong.

 

[WB9YBM]

Or it might keep them on the various VHF/UHF digital modes like they are now, with no interest of ever using HF. People are going to do that, regardless.
There's nothing about the General test or Extra test that makes you a better ham, or somehow more worthy of using voice on HF. They'll have to study more. Assuming they're actually paying attention (if they're not careful, they might actually learn something, and that would be most heinous!)

 

[WB9YBM]

It's all about time and place. I'd wager a bet that CW was considered a more advanced form of communication then. Maybe the test should go back to practical standards and have something more common to today's environment, say managing a digital contact, including setup of the gear.

That reminds me of a friend of mine who got licensed some time around WWII; he said the license involved drawing a schematic of at least a receiver (maybe even a transmitter too--it's so long ago since he told me, my memory's not certain), with component values, and they had to show their calculations on the scratch paper (and this was back before calculators and they had to use slide rules). If my friend was any indication, those hams really knew what they were doing.

 

[bill4long]

There's nothing about the General test or Extra test that makes you a better ham, or somehow more worthy of using voice on HF. It's just silly. Perhaps you can explain what exactly in those two exams allows people to be worthy of using voice, instead of CW?

I provided a specific reason on my last post. It's not a technical reason. It's a social reason. Reasons are reasons.

 

[alcahuete]

I provided a specific reason on my last post. It's not a technical reason. It's a social reason. Reasons are reasons.

Oh! So then for social reasons, why not 10 tests? Or 100 tests? Two just happens to be the magic number to make people socially acceptable?

They'll have to study more. Assuming they're actually paying attention (if they're not careful, they might actually learn something, and that would be most heinous!)

They might learn something? So...without "learning something" they can use CW. But They can't use voice on the exact same bands? Hmmmmmm..... That's incredibly interesting.

 

[bill4long]

Oh! So then for social reasons, why not 10 tests? Or 100 tests? Two just happens to be the magic number to make people socially acceptable?

The General class filter is enough to satisfy me that you're serious and not just a whiner for trollish reasons. Other opinions may differ.

So, are you interested in operating phone on HF (besides 10m)? If so, do you have a General class license? If not, why not?

 

[alcahuete]

The General class filter is enough to satisfy me that you're serious and not just a whiner for trollish reasons. Other opinions may differ.

Ahhhhhhh.....so the Technicians are whiner trolls and should not be allowed to use voice on HF. It all makes sense now.

So, are you interested in operating phone on HF (besides 10m)? If so, do you have a General class license? If not, why not?

As I already told you a few posts ago. I'm an Extra. I'm coming up on 27 years in just a few months. It's just incredibly sad to me that people in our hobby want to limit the Techs just for the sake of limiting them...or as you put it, so we can find out they are not whiners and trolls. Sad.

 

[bill4long]

Ahhhhhhh.....so the Technicians are whiner trolls and should not be allowed to use voice on HF. It all makes sense now.

Not all Techs. Just the ones who whine about not having more HF privileges when they could take the General test now and get the privileges now. It's not a good look.

As I already told you a few posts ago. I'm an Extra. I'm coming up on 27 years in just a few months. It's just incredibly sad to me that people in our hobby want to limit the Techs just for the sake of limiting them...or as you put it, so we can find out they are not whiners and trolls. Sad.

I don't see why it's "sad" to filter out whiners who could take the General test that's available now and get the HF privileges now. I think it's incredibly sad that whiners don't take the General test that's available to them if they want more HF privileges. I don't want those kind of lazy whiners on HF. It's bad enough as it is. Plus I'm in favor of making more difficult to get on HF (other than 10m). So...

 

[bill4long]

We're actually discussing two things here, 1) expanding Tech HF privileges; and 2) why Techs don't take the current General test if they want more HF privileges?

People can have respectable and legitimate disagreements over the scope and necessity of issue 1.

But what about 2? Why should anyone care about Techs that won't bother to take the current, rather easy General test if they want more HF privileges? I haven't seen a cogent answer to that in this thread so far. Saying, "because we need to make the test easier or get rid of it altogether" is not an answer to that question.

 

[MUTNAV]

Not all Techs. Just the ones who whine about not having more HF privileges when they could take the General test now and get the privileges now. It's not a good look.


I don't see why it's "sad" to filter out whiners who could take the General test that's available now and get the HF privileges now. I think it's incredibly sad that whiners don't take the General test that's available to them if they want more HF privileges. I don't want those kind of lazy whiners on HF. It's bad enough as it is. Plus I'm in favor of making more difficult to get on HF (other than 10m). So...

I didn't see anything in part 97, or the stated purposes of amateur radio, that filtering whiners is anyones job.

OR that making something difficult is useful.

I'm far more interested in some programmers with tech licenses, and an interest in doing so, making the next big digital mode that can dig signals out of the noise.

It's been discussed here before /s on (and frankly the conversation was at a higher level). Even the jokes were better. These new posters just seem to whine a lot, but not research anything. /s off

 

[alcahuete]

But what about 2? Why should anyone care about Techs that won't bother to take the current, rather easy General test if they want more HF privileges? I haven't seen a cogent answer to that in this thread so far. Saying, "because we need to make the test easier or get rid of it altogether" is not an answer to that question.

Why care? To better amateur radio as a whole. I personally feel the current privileges are silly. As I said, take the 40m privileges, for example. You can work CW on 40m as a Tech, but not 40m voice? I'm still curious as to why. I'm curious as to what exactly on the General exam gives these guys the sudden know-how and technical prowess to work a new mode on a band on which they already have privileges.

And the answers just don't make sense. Some are saying because the General exam makes sure they have the technical skills to operate on HF. Well...they already can operate on HF. So it's not that. They can already use voice on 10m (and above), so it's not a matter of learning how to use voice and talk on the radio. So what is it? Oh yeah...it's the fact that we just don't feel like giving them the privileges, just in case there are some who are whiners or trolls.

 

[bill4long]

I didn't see anything in part 97, or the stated purposes of amateur radio, that filtering whiners is anyones job.

It's my job to have an opinion. [Shrug]