TelePath System 268 Con+/Apple DMR Tier III

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
807
Location
Bay Area, CA
By my calculations :cool: 3005/3006 (1502) should be 463.7625 and 6871/6872 (3435) should be 487.9250. This agrees with the results above, so I'd say it's a pretty solid bet.

Although, that makes LCN 1 (from site 16) seem pretty unlikely at 445.000. I have to wonder if this was an artifact, since I only recall seeing it once.
 

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
807
Location
Bay Area, CA
463.7625 - Apple Newark - WPWU822
487.9250 - City of Los Angeles (I'm guessing not!) Besides, 487 MHz would be an input in the bay area.
 

b52hbuff

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,689
By my calculations :cool: 3005/3006 (1502) should be 463.7625 and 6871/6872 (3435) should be 487.9250. This agrees with the results above, so I'd say it's a pretty solid bet.

Although, that makes LCN 1 (from site 16) seem pretty unlikely at 445.000. I have to wonder if this was an artifact, since I only recall seeing it once.
I was thinking that 463.7625 may have been at the HP Agilent site in Santa Clara. I thought that may be a good guess since Telepath is listed as a contact for the license. Unfortunately, no control channel monitored from any of the frequencies in this license:
FCC Callsign WPBC944 (AGILENT TECHNOLOGIES INC) (radioreference.com)

Now that you have me thinking outside of the county, I agree with you.

I've had a mixed history with monitoring Telepath systems. I think someone may have uploaded the information from a network map dump from the system without actually verifying the information. I felt like I was going on a snipe hunt, looking for sites that were in the database, but weren't actually on the air. It should have been easy to find, since these systems broadcast a control channel.

Anyway, glad you found that Newark frequency, and that would be a good bet to go for a listen.
 

inigo88

California DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
1,876
Location
San Diego, CA
Although, that makes LCN 1 (from site 16) seem pretty unlikely at 445.000. I have to wonder if this was an artifact, since I only recall seeing it once.
I would bet that's an artifact. Considering the ranges of all the other LCNs on the system, this one is an outlier. 445.000 MHz is also in the HAM 70cm band and wouldn't be a valid frequency for the system.

463.7625 - Apple Newark - WPWU822
487.9250 - City of Los Angeles (I'm guessing not!) Besides, 487 MHz would be an input in the bay area.
Good point about the input. Maybe the 6000 LCNs are on a separate band plan after all (probably just a different base frequency, same step). Searching for it in the UHF T-band still seems very plausible though, and since T-band isn't allowed everywhere that also pretty much limits the site location to either the Bay Area or Los Angeles.

I was thinking that 463.7625 may have been at the HP Agilent site in Santa Clara. I thought that may be a good guess since Telepath is listed as a contact for the license. Unfortunately, no control channel monitored from any of the frequencies in this license:
FCC Callsign WPBC944 (AGILENT TECHNOLOGIES INC) (radioreference.com)

Now that you have me thinking outside of the county, I agree with you.
I thought Agilent was a reasonable guess too, but if you're not hearing any control channels in the local area, it might be close enough to be covered by the Apple Park/Vallco site. In that case, Newark would be the next best bet.
 

mcjones2013

Radio Communications Enthusiast
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
555
Sorry for the delay on my part with this project, I'm working on confirming the LCNs for the sites I can get from South Sacramento via an external antenna today. From a quick look at the spectrum using DSDPlus, Site 4 is on Sys 9 (TIII), and Sites 38 and 39 are on Sys 268 (Con+). I'll submit LCNs later today.
 

mcjones2013

Radio Communications Enthusiast
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
555
I submitted L9-4 recently which is at Apple's Elk Grove Campus. This is now in the database.

Today, I went to the rest area along I-80 just above Vallejo where there is a good view of the Bay Area.

I was getting a good copy of the control channel for L9-18 - Black Mountain. I didn't have time to get the voice channels. I do see that some are already listed in the L9 database.

Site: L9-18 - Black Mountain
NL: 2 3 9 16 32
Freq:
LSN 3187/3188 (LCN 1593) - 464.90000 DCC: 3 CONTROL CH

Note that TIII systems seem to use the same band plan for all sites within the same system (with an exception noted below), so these are based off using the LCN calculator provided in another thread:

Site: L9-2
LSN 1151/1152 (LCN 575) - 452.17500 CONTROL CH

Site: L9-3
LSN 3005/3006 (LCN 1502) - 463.76250 CONTROL CH

Site: L9-9
LSN 3007/3008 (LCN 1503) - 463.77500 CONTROL CH

Site: L9-16
LSN 6871/6872 (LCN UNK) - FREQ UNK CONTROL CH
Note: The LSN for this control channel using the 450/460 band plan and the LCN calculator would equal 487.92500, which is not a valid output frequency. I'm guessing the 482-484/488-490 channels are using a separate band plan, and 6871/6872 falls within the 482-484/488-490 range.

Site: L9-32
LSN 1115/1116 (LCN 557) - 451.95000 CONTROL CH
 

mcjones2013

Radio Communications Enthusiast
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
555
The LSN for this control channel using the 450/460 band plan and the LCN calculator would equal 487.92500, which is not a valid output frequency.
I should note, I mean it is not a valid output frequency in the San Franciso Bay Area where I suspect this site is located.
 

b52hbuff

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,689
I submitted L9-4 recently which is at Apple's Elk Grove Campus. This is now in the database.

Today, I went to the rest area along I-80 just above Vallejo where there is a good view of the Bay Area.

I was getting a good copy of the control channel for L9-18 - Black Mountain. I didn't have time to get the voice channels. I do see that some are already listed in the L9 database.

Site: L9-18 - Black Mountain
NL: 2 3 9 16 32
Freq:
LSN 3187/3188 (LCN 1593) - 464.90000 DCC: 3 CONTROL CH

Note that TIII systems seem to use the same band plan for all sites within the same system (with an exception noted below), so these are based off using the LCN calculator provided in another thread:

Site: L9-2
LSN 1151/1152 (LCN 575) - 452.17500 CONTROL CH

Site: L9-3
LSN 3005/3006 (LCN 1502) - 463.76250 CONTROL CH

Site: L9-9
LSN 3007/3008 (LCN 1503) - 463.77500 CONTROL CH

Site: L9-16
LSN 6871/6872 (LCN UNK) - FREQ UNK CONTROL CH
Note: The LSN for this control channel using the 450/460 band plan and the LCN calculator would equal 487.92500, which is not a valid output frequency. I'm guessing the 482-484/488-490 channels are using a separate band plan, and 6871/6872 falls within the 482-484/488-490 range.

Site: L9-32
LSN 1115/1116 (LCN 557) - 451.95000 CONTROL CH
Thanks! Looking back at one of my first posts on the thread, I have monitored L9-2 (Infinite Loop) and L9-32 (Results Way).

L9-3: 463.7625
FCC Callsign WPWU695 (APPLE INC) (radioreference.com)

7BANT14.017.03.038900 EUREKA DRIVE (Newark)

Tried doing a statewide license search on "Apple", sorted the frequencies and tried looking for frequencies in the range above 482MHz. My best guess is that if that site is active, then it is probably licensed to a Telepath frequency.
 
Last edited:

mcjones2013

Radio Communications Enthusiast
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
555
Since L9 seems to be following the Site ID structure of Con+ 268, I'm going to guess L9-16 is on Monument Peak, which is where Con+ 268-16 was. Con+ 268-16 had two control channels listed, 489.1625 and 489.925. If anyone close to Monument Peak can monitor those frequencies, that would help.

The frequencies for L9-16 and potentially L9-18 are registered to Telepath. I'm curious if L9 will end up being an altogether CapMax replacement for Con+ 268, and they just moved the Apple sites first along with at least some of the frequencies from Site 16 and Site 18? Or maybe those sites actually belonged to Apple and Telepath just licensed them.
 

mcjones2013

Radio Communications Enthusiast
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
555
268-13, 17, 21, 29 still show 268-16 as a peer at my last check this month.

268-17 still shows 268-18 as a peer at my last check this month.
 

b52hbuff

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,689
Since L9 seems to be following the Site ID structure of Con+ 268, I'm going to guess L9-16 is on Monument Peak, which is where Con+ 268-16 was. Con+ 268-16 had two control channels listed, 489.1625 and 489.925. If anyone close to Monument Peak can monitor those frequencies, that would help.

The frequencies for L9-16 and potentially L9-18 are registered to Telepath. I'm curious if L9 will end up being an altogether CapMax replacement for Con+ 268, and they just moved the Apple sites first along with at least some of the frequencies from Site 16 and Site 18? Or maybe those sites actually belonged to Apple and Telepath just licensed them.
I agree with you. I think they just reused frequencies on the same site and moved them over from Con+ 268 to L9.
Since L9 seems to be following the Site ID structure of Con+ 268, I'm going to guess L9-16 is on Monument Peak, which is where Con+ 268-16 was. Con+ 268-16 had two control channels listed, 489.1625 and 489.925. If anyone close to Monument Peak can monitor those frequencies, that would help.

The frequencies for L9-16 and potentially L9-18 are registered to Telepath. I'm curious if L9 will end up being an altogether CapMax replacement for Con+ 268, and they just moved the Apple sites first along with at least some of the frequencies from Site 16 and Site 18? Or maybe those sites actually belonged to Apple and Telepath just licensed them.
Here is what I have for L9-18:
1626916180281.png
And you are correct, they are all Telepath...
FCC Callsign WQTF376 (TELEPATH CORPORATION) (radioreference.com)
FCC Callsign WRAB529 (Telepath Corporation) (radioreference.com)
FCC Callsign WQQT906 (TELEPATH CORPORATION) (radioreference.com)
 

b52hbuff

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,689
Went out to Newark the other day, here's what I found...

There are Apple and Telepath licenses at that site. The building doesn't have any Apple markings on it. As a data center, there isn't much radio traffic. Monitored with SDS100, need to get me an SDR setup. ;)

463.7625 was the control channel. The system showed up as DMRT3 / SysId 9. Never got a clean Analyze LCN run. The LCN for 463.7625 came from @mcjones2013 dump. It uses the same Base/Offset as other sites in their system. The LCN for 461.375 is based on this guess.

1627166072351.png
 
Top