Thales Liberty MultiBand Radio Review

[CommunicationsFreak]

I know that there are people interested in knowing more about the Liberty Multiband Radio, so here is what I learned using the radio and I'll try to keep things very simple so anyone (new to radios) can understand.

In case there are questions (people new to radios) regarding the terms below. Tx = Transmitting, Rx = Receive, PcP = Programming/Programmer Software,
Sq. = Squelch Tones, Tones (also speaker sounds).

The Liberty Radio Technical Specification (Intrinsic Safe & Standard) is/are;
Analog 12.5kHz & 25kHz spacing. P25 Digital & Conventional 12.5kHz. Frequency Coverage 136-174, 380-520, & 763-869 MHz

Radio Features: P25 Trunking/Encryption (AES & DES)/OTAR, and MDC1200, and Tier 1 GPS. (All features are enabled with a firmware in download/CD from Thales after purchase w/radio serial #)

Notes; Standard and Intrinsic Safe radios are Full Key Pad. GPS works in P25 channels & in a Standard Radio (not in Intrinsic Safe Radios).


Radio and PcP Max. Limits;
2608 Channels (Conventional, Trunked) in any mix. 10 Banks (Groups of Zones). 175 Zones.
600 Personalities. 256 Talkgroups. 200 Sites. 30 Networks. 16 Channels ID’s per Trunking System. 64 AES/DES Keys.
32 Tones (sq. tones separate from what is selected in PcP frequencies/channels). 200 Scan-list. 30 OTAR & Data Profiles. 5 Full Spectrum Control Channel Scan

The radio works/Tx/Rx between a Motorola APX 7000 (if it has 2 of the same bands as the Liberty and Unity), Harris Unity XG-100P and Liberty Radio if the other radios have the features (manufacturer) enabled and then through the programming software.


Radio Weight:
Two or three ounces (actual scale weight) compared to a APX 7000 or Harris Unity XG-100P (all radios w/High Cap. Batt, Antenna, etc.).


Battery & Charger:
High Cap Batt. does add a very noticeable amount of weight, when compared to the standard battery. The useable time for Tx/Rx on a 16 hour (High Capacity Battery) is about 10 +/- 3 hours. The 8 hour (Standard Battery) last 6 +/- 2 hours (batteries are Li-Ion, "smart").
The advanced charger is very fast, it charges in less or about 2 hours for complete charge for a 16 hour battery.


PcP:
Fairly easy, but it still takes some time to get use to. The programming software has the ability between “Normal” programming or “Multi-Mode” which allows for different CTCSS, CDCSS, or NAC’s for a channel that has the same frequency (without removing additional channels/frequencies from the capacity just to have different tones in the same frequency, e.g. 100 channels w/the same frequencies w/different sq. tones can = 50 channels).

Multi-Mode works in any mix of configurations in Analog Wideband, Analog Narrow Band, P25 (Digital). The “Primary" CTCSS, CDCSS or NAC, acts as the primary choice for Tx and Rx, the secondary works as (obviously as secondary) CTCSS/CDSS/NAC for Tx and Rx in the same frequency as the primary (selected in PcP & timed for xx seconds for talkback in secondary tone/s).

The PcP subscription (NO expiration date) it comes with all the software and firmware updates (unlike Harris Corp or Motorola Solutions which charge you after the subscription expires).

PcP Note: PcP & Firmware versions are NOT cross compatible other than one back/forward version e.g. 6.2v & 6.3v.


User Programmable Buttons (Side & Front):
Three side buttons are EXCELLENT when the radio is in a semi-deep carry case, and offer great flexibility for user selectable options (programmed in PcP), also the three top front keys can be configured to any configuration (Encrypt on/off, Sq. Tones, scan, Silent Keypad & much more, by using the left or right arrows) for added flexibility.

Radio can be programmed from the keypad “on the fly/go,” if you build a “Zone/s” with 16 channels max. (your choice) with the channels programmed into the zone with a “default” frequency (136.00000 or your choice) in Tx and Rx (set up in PcP).

The "Select Any Channel” from a different zone is good but it ONLY works if you use it as a calling channel, then change to a pre-defined channel. Then as soon as you change the channel or zone knob or turn the off radio it reverts back to it’s original channel as programmed in PcP.

Radio is Analog Wideband capable from factory, but you must request it from Thales Customer/Tech Support after FCC 2013 Mandate (comes in a FREE firmware update/s download or CD).


Analog Wideband Note:
There is NO FCC wideband permit required, the FCC narrow band mandate ONLY APPLIES to Part 90 LMR (Federal, State, Local - Public Safety & Any Business Frequencies) and NOT Part 95 and others e.g. GMRS/FRS, Amateur Radio etc. (if in doubt check out the FCC page for yourself).


Radio Access:
The radio can be configured in three different ways to prevent access/use. It can be configured either for programming (keypad) with and without password (default is no keypad programming allowed), and when turning on the radio.


Etc:
This radio is perfect for those that need to have the entire National Interoperability Field Guide “NIFOG” and don’t need Motorola’s Smartzone - Omnilink I/II, Mototorbo, OpenSky, EDACS,(Harris Corp.) or LTR, etc.

I could go on and on… explaining the radio, so I’m stopping here!

If anyone has any questions,about the radio reply below, and I will try to answer you're question/s ASAP!

Post your opinion/s below, like/s or dislike/s, etc.

 

[FFPM571]

all this for the low low price of???

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

all this for the low low price of???

As far as pricing goes. I've seen spreads anywhere between $5-8 K (w/accessories and features) depending on the agreement between the dealer, representative (can sell, but not same as dealer) and Thales.

As this was a contract purchase, I can not discuss the actual amount.

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

I know that there are people interested in knowing more about the Liberty Multiband Radio, so here is what I learned using the radio and I'll try to keep things very simple so anyone (new to radios) can understand.

In case there are questions (people new to radios) regarding the terms below. Tx = Transmitting, Rx = Receive, PcP = Programming/Programmer Software,
Sq. = Squelch Tones, Tones (also speaker sounds).

The Liberty Radio Technical Specification (Intrinsic Safe & Standard) is/are;
Analog 12.5kHz & 25kHz spacing. P25 Digital & Conventional 12.5kHz. Frequency Coverage 136-174, 380-520, & 763-869 MHz

Radio Features: P25 Trunking/Encryption (AES & DES)/OTAR, and MDC1200, and Tier 1 GPS. (All features are enabled with a firmware in download/CD from Thales after purchase w/radio serial #)

Notes; Standard and Intrinsic Safe radios are Full Key Pad. GPS works in P25 channels & in a Standard Radio (not in Intrinsic Safe Radios).


Radio and PcP Max. Limits;
2608 Channels (Conventional, Trunked) in any mix. 10 Banks (Groups of Zones). 175 Zones.
600 Personalities. 256 Talkgroups. 200 Sites. 30 Networks. 16 Channels ID’s per Trunking System. 64 AES/DES Keys.
32 Tones (sq. tones separate from what is selected in PcP frequencies/channels). 200 Scan-list. 30 OTAR & Data Profiles. 5 Full Spectrum Control Channel Scan

The radio works/Tx/Rx between a Motorola APX 7000 (if it has 2 of the same bands as the Liberty and Unity), Harris Unity XG-100P and Liberty Radio if the other radios have the features (manufacturer) enabled and then through the programming software.


Radio Weight:
Two or three ounces (actual scale weight) compared to a APX 7000 or Harris Unity XG-100P (all radios w/High Cap. Batt, Antenna, etc.).


Battery & Charger:
High Cap Batt. does add a very noticeable amount of weight, when compared to the standard battery. The useable time for Tx/Rx on a 16 hour (High Capacity Battery) is about 10 +/- 3 hours. The 8 hour (Standard Battery) last 6 +/- 2 hours (batteries are Li-Ion, "smart").
The advanced charger is very fast, it charges in less or about 2 hours for complete charge for a 16 hour battery.


PcP:
Fairly easy, but it still takes some time to get use to. The programming software has the ability between “Normal” programming or “Multi-Mode” which allows for different CTCSS, CDCSS, or NAC’s for a channel that has the same frequency (without removing additional channels/frequencies from the capacity just to have different tones in the same frequency, e.g. 100 channels w/the same frequencies w/different sq. tones can = 50 channels).

Multi-Mode works in any mix of configurations in Analog Wideband, Analog Narrow Band, P25 (Digital). The “Primary" CTCSS, CDCSS or NAC, acts as the primary choice for Tx and Rx, the secondary works as (obviously as secondary) CTCSS/CDSS/NAC for Tx and Rx in the same frequency as the primary (selected in PcP & timed for xx seconds for talkback in secondary tone/s).

The PcP subscription (NO expiration date) it comes with all the software and firmware updates (unlike Harris Corp or Motorola Solutions which charge you after the subscription expires).

PcP Note: PcP & Firmware versions are NOT cross compatible other than one back/forward version e.g. 6.2v & 6.3v.


User Programmable Buttons (Side & Front):
Three side buttons are EXCELLENT when the radio is in a semi-deep carry case, and offer great flexibility for user selectable options (programmed in PcP), also the three top front keys can be configured to any configuration (Encrypt on/off, Sq. Tones, scan, Silent Keypad & much more, by using the left or right arrows) for added flexibility.

Radio can be programmed from the keypad “on the fly/go,” if you build a “Zone/s” with 16 channels max. (your choice) with the channels programmed into the zone with a “default” frequency (136.00000 or your choice) in Tx and Rx (set up in PcP).

The "Select Any Channel” from a different zone is good but it ONLY works if you use it as a calling channel, then change to a pre-defined channel. Then as soon as you change the channel or zone knob or turn the off radio it reverts back to it’s original channel as programmed in PcP.

Radio is Analog Wideband capable from factory, but you must request it from Thales Customer/Tech Support after FCC 2013 Mandate (comes in a FREE firmware update/s download or CD).


Analog Wideband Note:
There is NO FCC wideband permit required, the FCC narrow band mandate ONLY APPLIES to Part 90 LMR (Federal, State, Local - Public Safety & Any Business Frequencies) and NOT Part 95 and others e.g. GMRS/FRS, Amateur Radio etc. (if in doubt check out the FCC page for yourself).


Radio Access:
The radio can be configured in three different ways to prevent access/use. It can be configured either for programming (keypad) with and without password (default is no keypad programming allowed), and when turning on the radio.


Etc:
This radio is perfect for those that need to have the entire National Interoperability Field Guide “NIFOG” and don’t need Motorola’s Smartzone - Omnilink I/II, Mototorbo, OpenSky, EDACS,(Harris Corp.) or LTR, etc.

I could go on and on… explaining the radio, so I’m stopping here!

If anyone has any questions,about the radio reply below, and I will try to answer you're question/s ASAP!

Post your opinion/s below, like/s or dislike/s, etc.

Additional Notes:

The radio/s was/were purchased along with all features, accessories, along with extended warranty to save $$ if any repairs come up after the standard warranty expires.

Features:
P25 Data is also available (don't have it).


PcP:
Radio can also be programmed (indirectly) for Analog Narrow/Wideband, P25, frequency, and all feature/s (except encryption key/s loading & OTAR rekey/s) through a Microsoft Excel Speadsheet, once you get use to it. A great time and wrist (carpal tunnel) saver!

GPS: Offers a variety of options that can be selected from the front panel (on/off & others) after programming in the PcP.


Buying Options:
In case someone is wondering, I'm not a sales rep/dealer, but I can answer all if not most of the questions, and suggest what accessories are preferable/recommended (sales rep, or dealers won't tell you like they did to me).

Before anyone else asks, I can not provide anyone with the actual pricing paid (contract agreement), other than prices range from $4-8K.

If you're with a department (police, fire, fed/state/local, sar, etc. agencies) and or an individual (only serious buyers, to prevent a flood of request) considering a purchase and would like the contact info of the sales rep in my area please contact me via PM only.

 

[jim202]

The major drawback to these multi band do all radios is that they only have ONE receiver in them. So your buying an over priced scanner as far as receiving goes. What this means is that you only get to listen to one frequency at a time. If your at a multi band incident, the first channel that gets heard captures the receiver in the scan mode. You don't get to hear anything else until that channel stops talking and the scan delay time releases. Then you have a chance to hear another band channel when the scanner starts searching again.

Bottom line here is if you need to listen to more than one band at a time, better plan on using multiple radios to listen to what is going on. It's much cheaper to buy individual radios than these expensive toys.

 

[gesucks]

Jim202, please STOP. Your 100's of post stating the multiband radios have a huge drawback is down right insulting to the buyers. If you think all the people that have purchased the 100,000's of APX, Liberty and Unity really think they were getting radios that can tx and rx multi channels at the same time, you really have no clue about Public Safety users. Just because you dont want one does not mean the 100,000's of happy users who no dont have to carry more than one radio becuase we only talk on one channel at a time are not happy

 

[FFPM571]

Jim is 100% correct.. I use an APX7/800/VHF we use the 800 for dispatch and VHF for fireground. When its scanning on a fireground I miss half of whats said on one or the other.. I will sometimes keep a dedicated HT1250 with me just so I don't miss anything

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

The major drawback to these multi band do all radios is that they only have ONE receiver in them. So your buying an over priced scanner as far as receiving goes. What this means is that you only get to listen to one frequency at a time. If your at a multi band incident, the first channel that gets heard captures the receiver in the scan mode. You don't get to hear anything else until that channel stops talking and the scan delay time releases. Then you have a chance to hear another band channel when the scanner starts searching again.

Bottom line here is if you need to listen to more than one band at a time, better plan on using multiple radios to listen to what is going on. It's much cheaper to buy individual radios than these expensive toys.

I don't want to sound like I'm on a yelling match, but there are many... things to consider besides $$$ when making decisions.

I agree that they are seemingly expensive at first glance, when there's a need for monitoring two, three, four different bands at the same time, but you have to remember that most people will not need to listen to two different radios, only incident commanders, and admin need two, plus different radios.
Since most people are not trained for IC, or Admin duties.

I disagree, that it's expensive scanner the quality is not even close to those Chinese scanners, and sensitivity. (If a Chinese radio is all you have when your in BIG.... trouble that one exception). If you do the math/addition on four radios VHF-UHF-700/800 MHz you will see that it's more expensive to get for example four APX 6000 or equivalent w/all P25 features plus the software, etc. that's needed.

Take this actual example, a Kenwood TK-5220 and 5320 (mid tier) plus a TK-5410 (700/800 MHz) will run you between $900-2,400 each when you add the P25 features, keypad, software and accessories, then multiply that by 4 bands/radios = $3,600 to 6,000+. Where is the savings in $???

Also, if the need arises during an incident that they need to change from one band to another and don't need the other afterwards, would it make any sense financially speaking to spend on three radios that are not used during the change of bands along with all the accessories that are needed, along with the associated weight for four portables?

Then again how many conversations/people can a IC listen at the same time 2, 3, 4... and respond? That's why there is a need for IC Assistant/s.

FYI, I still have to use the multi band along with a VHF-AM radio, and a secondary P25 when the need arrises.

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

Jim202, please STOP. Your 100's of post stating the multiband radios have a huge drawback is down right insulting to the buyers. If you think all the people that have purchased the 100,000's of APX, Liberty and Unity really think they were getting radios that can tx and rx multi channels at the same time, you really have no clue about Public Safety users. Just because you dont want one does not mean the 100,000's of happy users who no dont have to carry more than one radio becuase we only talk on one channel at a time are not happy

Agreed!!!!

I don't mean it as an insult, but I've seen his post other times he's either jealous, or stuck somewhere in the past... when things were very... different.

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

Anyone willing to write a detailed review in one place about their Motorola APX 7000/7500 dual band or the Harris Unity XG-100P/M, EF Johnson dual band for other people???

 

[hitechRadio]

Jim is 100% correct.. I use an APX7/800/VHF we use the 800 for dispatch and VHF for fireground. When its scanning on a fireground I miss half of whats said on one or the other.. I will sometimes keep a dedicated HT1250 with me just so I don't miss anything

So what did you do in the past without the APX?
Y if your on a fire, are you not only on FG, do you have a need to listen to dispatch while working a fire?
Just curuios, i'am not a fire fighter by the way.

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

So what did you do in the past without the APX? (There wasn't a single radio to spare)

Y if your on a fire, are you not only on FG, do you have a need to listen to dispatch while working a fire? (I am not a Firefighter or Paramedic)

Can't listen to VHF + UHF = Good excuse to have a second multi band radio.

The equivalent package that I have in a APX 7K would have cost $7-8K w/Crypto, MDC1200, Trunking, GPS, Clamshell, Speaker mic, "advanced" Vehicle/Desktop Charger, 2 Wire kit/earpiece, Warranty + Extended, Software, etc...

 

[kayn1n32008]

So what did you do in the past without the APX?

Carried 2radios???

Y if your on a fire, are you not only on FG, do you have a need to listen to dispatch while working a fire?

I could see command staff needing to listen to both...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

Carried 2radios??? (Exactly, 1 VHF-FM + 1 UHF-R1 Radio)

I could see command staff needing to listen to both... (I agree)

 

[mancow]

Didn't they discontinue the Liberty product line?

 

[CommunicationsFreak]

Didn't they discontinue the Liberty product line? - Thales is iffy about it.

 

[jim202]

Jim202, please STOP. Your 100's of post stating the multiband radios have a huge drawback is down right insulting to the buyers. If you think all the people that have purchased the 100,000's of APX, Liberty and Unity really think they were getting radios that can tx and rx multi channels at the same time, you really have no clue about Public Safety users. Just because you dont want one does not mean the 100,000's of happy users who no dont have to carry more than one radio becuase we only talk on one channel at a time are not happy

Maybe you don't like to hear the truth about these overblown, high priced toys that the vendors are playing on the dumb to buy as a solution to end all solutions. I keep bring bringing up the fact because most of the public safety people are too gullible to see the light through the BS they are being fed by the vendors.

I deal with public safety agencies on a daily from all over the country. Been working with them for about 40 plus years. There is not much I haven't seen vendors try to pass off as the world's best radio to these people. Most of the multi band radios have been put through their paces on the bench in front of me over the last 3 or more years as they came out. You have not heard me down play any of the other features good or bad in any of them except that they only have one receiver.

My guess is that you haven't had to deal with a major incident where there have been multiple agencies on all sorts of different bands trying to talk with each other. I might also expect that you haven been sent into an area where just about everything was cleaned out radio wise because of a severe weather activity. Have been there and had to work with almost nothing left in the wake. Most of the public safety agencies that have been in this type of situation find out real fast just how vulnerable they are to not having any radio communications.

If you don't like my stand, get use to it. There are others that feel the same way. I just hate to see tax payer's money get spent on something the end users don't fully understand before they make a purchase. Maybe you haven't noticed, but I don't favor one brand over another.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Maybe you don't like to hear the truth about these overblown, high priced toys that the vendors are playing on the dumb to buy as a solution to end all solutions. I keep bring bringing up the fact because most of the public safety people are too gullible to see the light through the BS they are being fed by the vendors.



I deal with public safety agencies on a daily from all over the country. Been working with them for about 40 plus years. There is not much I haven't seen vendors try to pass off as the world's best radio to these people. Most of the multi band radios have been put through their paces on the bench in front of me over the last 3 or more years as they came out. You have not heard me down play any of the other features good or bad in any of them except that they only have one receiver.



My guess is that you haven't had to deal with a major incident where there have been multiple agencies on all sorts of different bands trying to talk with each other. I might also expect that you haven been sent into an area where just about everything was cleaned out radio wise because of a severe weather activity. Have been there and had to work with almost nothing left in the wake. Most of the public safety agencies that have been in this type of situation find out real fast just how vulnerable they are to not having any radio communications.



If you don't like my stand, get use to it. There are others that feel the same way. I just hate to see tax payer's money get spent on something the end users don't fully understand before they make a purchase. Maybe you haven't noticed, but I don't favor one brand over another.

And there are places like my province where dual band radios are going to be required simply because we are getting a province wide system with both VHF and 700MHz coverage. 3 of the potential users will likely have responders that could be in either the 700MHz coverage or the VHF coverage at any time. Majority of these users will likely not need to receive both at once, but may operate in both during a shift. Listening to 2 transmissions, at the same time, on different bands is not likely to be needed, but the ability to go from one to the other in the course of a shift WILL likely be needed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ff-medic]

So what did you do in the past without the APX? (There wasn't a single radio to spare)

Y if your on a fire, are you not only on FG, do you have a need to listen to dispatch while working a fire? (I am not a Firefighter or Paramedic)

Can't listen to VHF + UHF = Good excuse to have a second multi band radio.

The equivalent package that I have in a APX 7K would have cost $7-8K w/Crypto, MDC1200, Trunking, GPS, Clamshell, Speaker mic, "advanced" Vehicle/Desktop Charger, 2 Wire kit/earpiece, Warranty + Extended, Software, etc...

The "IC" needs to have the capability to monitor Fire Ground Operations as well as dispatch. Ideally, to prevent overcrowding of the primary fire freq, there should be an alternate duplex channel for the IC to talk to the dispatch. That way, when there is duplex fire traffic, it is between the dispatcher and the IC. The IC does not have to listen to unnecessary duplex dispatch traffic.

The fireground can change. Additional fire crews may be needed. Additional Ambulances may need to be dispatched. A Haz-Mat team may need to respond after dangerous chemicals are found. As I said before in a post, every scene such as car accidents , fires , hazardous material responses are IDLH ( immediately dangerous to life and health) to me.

Fire ground communications are not supposed to be complicated. One IC could have a another officer or assistant handle comms with the dispatch while they work on the fire ground channel. Also, that let's the assistant keep track of personnel and their locations, as well as apparatus locations and dutys.

Incident Command work is tough. It is also a tremendous responsibility, and it can be mind numbing and task an IC mentally. A description of one incident to a dozen fire officers whom was not there, would more than likely give you a dozen ways of handling the incident described.

Good radio communications, enough manpower , proper resources ( ex : ladder truck - rescue truck - EMS ) is very important. You have to maintain a good span of control, and / or ..... Have the people to help you with the span of control. If you overtask resources you can have a failed fireground, or fire fighter Injurys / fatalities.

Lack of communication or poor comms on the fireground can very well cause serious problems or a regrettable incident involving human life.

If you have the need for two radios......then you may....MAY need two people.


The fireground is noisy and very distracting. Not paying attention to detail and failure to be aware of ones surroundings could lead to a hospital visit.

Don't get too congested or " tied up" with multiple comms ( portables ) on an incident. Use another person to monitor outside radio freqs and to help with documentation / mapping of personnel and equipment.

The less tasking incidents on fireground, or " simple calls "'('EMS assist - simple investigaton ) the IC should have a good radio ( possibly dual band ) for adequate communications with multiple agencies ( Street dept - EMS - Police - Utility Dept - Ajoining jurisdictions - State &
Local O.E.S)

FF - Medic !!!

 

[ff-medic]

And there are places like my province where dual band radios are going to be required simply because we are getting a province wide system with both VHF and 700MHz coverage. 3 of the potential users will likely have responders that could be in either the 700MHz coverage or the VHF coverage at any time. Majority of these users will likely not need to receive both at once, but may operate in both during a shift. Listening to 2 transmissions, at the same time, on different bands is not likely to be needed, but the ability to go from one to the other in the course of a shift WILL likely be needed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Don't forget the VHF and UHF medical freqs. Where I live in some places medical VHF works ( .340 - .400 - .160 ) and UHF don't..... And vise versa. Depends on terrain. And for those of you who do not know - most med channels do not go through the repeater......for obvious reasons.

Then there are dedicated helicopter freqs and rescue frequencies in some locales.

FF-Medic !!!