The AOR AR-DV1 vs. The Scan New England Bunker

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Thanks for the review. You already have a good receiver setup, so I can see why the AR-DV1 does not quite fit.

After consideration I decided to pull the trigger, and buy the AR-DV1 from The Ham Station. $1200 is a chunk of change, but I want something in a more portable package, like my AR-8600.

The AR-8600 with the P25 board is about the same price. It has a greater frequency range, but can not decode DCS and the other digital voice modes. CTCSS is available for $120 more, but has a slow search.

The $20 dongles are cheaper, but you have to hook it up to a several hundred dollar computer. The dongles have dynamic range and frequency stability issues. The NetSDR has better performance and costs more than the AR-DV1.

Expanding frequency range, improving dynamic range, and improving frequency stability drive up the cost. I can see AOR deciding to limit the frequency range to 1300 MHz to keep costs down, otherwise you are looking at around $1600 dollars for a receiver with a frequency range like the AR-8600.

73 Eric

 

[KC1UA]

I'll be interested to see what you can do with the DV1 Eric. Perhaps your programming wizardry will yield something that makes improvement to the DV1's severely limited capabilities with these digital modes. Ever hack firmware? Heck I don't even know if that would be possible as I don't know if these shortcomings are hardware limitations or otherwise. It would seem to me that firmware updates could improve it.

I like this receiver, and when I was given the option to review it by Jeff I went into it thinking that I would receive and treat it as such. But as said with the capability it presents and the obstacles of the shortcomings, there is a level of disappointment that right now tips the scales to me declining the purchase.

If anyone can rev this sucker up, it's you. Good luck, and I hope you'll keep everyone posted if and when you do. Thanks.

 

[AA6IO]

Eric,
Glad to hear you pulled the trigger. I spoke to Taka at AOR this morning and he has received all the computer codes from Japan. He is in the process of translating the Japanese into English. I told him I would help him if he wants any help.
I also miss the more portable package compared to being tethered to a computer. I certainly want to learn more about the all the features of programs like DSD+ 1.08, but I don't like being dependent on those programs alone. I indeed am fascinated by SDR, but I also like a stand-alone radio.
N2PQQ planted an idea in my head about combining the AR-DV1, using its disc tap, and tapping into DSD+. You could have the best of both worlds. And I have missed using the AR-DV1 these past couple of weeks. I also like the AR-8600, which I have used in the past.
What does this all equal for me? Just pulled the trigger on the AR-DV1 myself. Will look forward Eric to whatever you come up with in a computer/software interface. I already told Taka just now about your purchase decision and your software background. He seemed excited that someone with your background will be using the radio.

 

[KC1UA]

I will say this....going portable is nice in the summertime. I've been under the weather with some kind of cold/allergy nightmare that's kicking my butt and the air in the cellar is a little cool and damp for me right now, so...

Fortunately I have a cable out here that runs back to the radio room, so the DV1 is still using my #1 antenna via the Stridsberg. I can also access the NetSDR from here across the LAN of course. Sadly my laptop does not have a line in connection on it so I can't take advantage of the aux out of the DV1.

Well looks like Steve is back in the game! Welcome back! I spoke to Jeff today and will hold onto this through at least two firmware updates. Nice to see that Taka is enthused about Eric joining the fun; as he should be. The way I've been hammering this receiver I'm sure he's "less thrilled" with me! But, I callz em as I seez em.

Taka, one thing that needs to be addressed is the analog quality of the audio when the receiver is in AUTO mode. It's awful. The AUTO mode is fixed, why not take it one step further and make it truly auto so it works regardless of whether the signal is analog or digital.

This portability is one of the serious pluses of this receiver. As I said its signal receiving performance seems to stand right with the competition that I have available. It's just those other little issues...did I mention them?

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

It may be too soon to evaluate the AR-DV1 as features are being added and bugs fixed. It reminds me of the CR-1 launch. I gave my opinion about the CR-1 when I got one, but it was a moving target as features were added and bugs fixed.

It seems like having firmware update capability allows some manufacturers to release products before the firmware feature set is completely done. It gets you first to market and allows recovery of development costs sooner, but with a potential problem of poor sales and bad reviews while the firmware is being completed. Sometimes the bad press does not easily go away.

It will be interesting to see how the Aux Output works with digital decoding. I had some problems on P25 with the AR5000 and AR8600 detector output. I had to modify the Packet Output on my Icom R2500 to get P25 to work. I want to compare receiver sensitivity between the R2500 and AR-DV1.

A UPS label was generated within a short time after I ordered. Ham Station is fast!

Too many projects, not enough time... Still, I want to try some remote control and see if I can get the AR-DV1 to work with Unitrunker on the nearby 700 MHz overlay P25 site.

73 Eric

 

[KC1UA]

Hi Eric,

The discriminator output of this receiver is strong. I originally tested it only with my Connect Systems CD-1 tone decoder, but immediately noticed a very snappy response to both CTCSS and DCS tones that I never saw from the AR5K's DIN output.

I decided to take this outdoor lashup a step farther, as my laptop does not have a line in. I installed an old (but one of my favorite sound devices ever made) SoundBlaster Live! 24 Bit USB unit after finding Windows 7 drivers, and I'm happy to say it's doing a superb job taking disc audio from the DV1 and using it with not only DSD+ but also the latest UniTrunker. Great decode in both cases. I'll try it next with KG-Tone for tone decoding but I have no doubt that too will work fine.

I hope AOR can catch up regarding firmware shortcomings. The cart before the horse is quite evident here, although I hope again that this is a wakeup call to the scanner manufacturers that this can be done, and they need to get off of their collective keysters and get started on it.

 

[Citywide173]

I hope AOR can catch up regarding firmware shortcomings. The cart before the horse is quite evident here, although I hope again that this is a wakeup call to the scanner manufacturers that this can be done, and they need to get off of their collective keysters and get started on it.

+1!!!!

Since AOR has made it clear that this is a receiver and not a scanner, I would assume that the scanner manufacturers will hide behind something like "That's a function for high end receivers" and not pay any attention to the consumers wants, maintaining the status quo.

 

[KC1UA]

Well, Ed, with that in mind I started a new thread at this link:

http://forums.radioreference.com/ge...-multi-digital-mode-scanners-why-not-now.html

Hopefully it'll spark some "entertaining" conversation. Let's try to continue to keep this thread pertinent to the DV1 as much as we can.

 

[DSC45]

Eric,
Glad to hear you pulled the trigger. I spoke to Taka at AOR this morning and he has received all the computer codes from Japan. He is in the process of translating the Japanese into English. I told him I would help him if he wants any help.
I also miss the more portable package compared to being tethered to a computer. I certainly want to learn more about the all the features of programs like DSD+ 1.08, but I don't like being dependent on those programs alone. I indeed am fascinated by SDR, but I also like a stand-alone radio.
N2PQQ planted an idea in my head about combining the AR-DV1, using its disc tap, and tapping into DSD+. You could have the best of both worlds. And I have missed using the AR-DV1 these past couple of weeks. I also like the AR-8600, which I have used in the past.
What does this all equal for me? Just pulled the trigger on the AR-DV1 myself. Will look forward Eric to whatever you come up with in a computer/software interface. I already told Taka just now about your purchase decision and your software background. He seemed excited that someone with your background will be using the radio.

Steve,
Glad to hear that you just pulled the trigger on the AR-DV1 receiver. Now between You and Eric, and Scott's perspective with his demo, we'll get more great reviews and information as the future firmware, and possible software develops on the new AOR AR-DV1 Receiver!

 

[AA6IO]

Well now running the AR-DV1 with discriminator tap into DSD+. Listening to the AR-DV1 and using DSD+ to get info about NXDN and DMR stations. With firmware 1506C, VFO scanning is working, pass function (equivalent to lockout on most scanners) seems to work, and search speeds seem faster on analog. Digital search speeds still quite slow.
If I can get enough NXDN/DMR channels identified and make a scan list of say 40, 50, 60, or even 100 stations, then monitor them with the AR-DV1, then the receiver will prove to be very useful. I think running it with DSD+ to identify what is going on will help. The discriminator output from the auxiliary jack is very good. Running it into my line input of a DELL XPS Windows 7 with DSD+, sounds to me like the best discriminator output I have gotten from any scanner I have tapped, and better I think than from my WS-1080. I'll have to play with the discriminator output more to see. You get good audio from the receiver speaker or headphones while using the discriminator output.
Steve AA6IO

 

[AA6IO]

Been listening to P25 with AR-DV1 and through disc with DSD+. In the case of P25, my disc output with DSD+ sounds better with one of my tapped 996XTs.
Steve

 

[AA6IO]

Have to be totally honest. The P25 on LAPD conventional channels sounds a heck of lot better on my Uniden scanners and GRE/RS scanners than on the AR-DV1. Will have to compare the DMR with my new CS-750 and CS-800 when get those set up.
Whatever, I bought the AR-DV1 and will see things out as they develop over time. I will keep the radio, but don't necessarily expect that my reviews will change all that much. The next big step will come when (if) some good software becomes available.
Steve

 

[KC1UA]

Some of my next experiments will be with scanning. I'm hoping a new firmware update will be out; not sure on the schedule for this week.

I'm also contemplating maybe a temporary feed so anyone interested can hear some of the digital audio quality. This will take a little bit of logistical juggling but if I can get it set up over the next few days I'll do so.

Good to see that Gommert is developing programming software with the pro option for control. Whether that control will extend any capabilities remains to be seen and I expect both versions will be a ways off.

I need to do some HF testing also.

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

I got mine this morning! It is a bigger box than my AR-8600, but not by much.

I also noticed the audio change of Auto versus FM. It sounds like the low audio frequencies are being filtered out. I can put it on a scope to check.

I think I found the problem with the DCS codes. The DCS code is taken as a decimal number and converted to octal. The DCS code is already octal.

Freq     Disp Actual
460.5000 537  D351   351 Decimal is 537 Octal
460.1500 721  D465   465 Decimal is 721 Octal
460.3000 555  D365   365 Decimal is 555 Octal
460.4000 532  D346   346 Decimal is 532 Octal
460.1250 563  D371   371 Decimal is 563 Octal

The split in the CTCSS and DCS search is also used in a couple of GRE scanners I own.

Added: CTCSS Squelch works, but DCS Squelch does not.

73 Eric

 

[KC1UA]

Here is another head scratching moment for me with this receiver.

I located a DSTAR repeater on 145.210. While I have yet to hear a voice transmission on it, I have heard numerous "databursts" via my IC-R7100. Naturally I tuned the DV1 to the same frequency.

Scrolling on the bottom two lines of the display are:

from "CALLSIGN" /RPTR
to CQCQCQ

Alternating with:

rep1 "CALLSIGN" G
rep2 "CALLSIGN" C

(Note that "CALLSIGN" is where an actual callsign is viewed, but I chose not to put the actual callsign received in this message)

Here's my head scratcher....if AOR can extract this data from a DSTAR amateur radio repeater....WHY THE HELL CAN'T OR WON'T THEY EXTRACT DATA FROM DMR, P25, AND NXDN SYSTEMS AND DISPLAY IT ON THE SAME TWO DAMNED LINES?

Yeah, sorry, I know that was all caps...but really?

 

[KC1UA]

"Scanning"

I must conclude that the memory scanning feature of this receiver is woefully inadequate. I haven't broken out a stopwatch, but I'm guessing maybe around 4 channels a second.

Search ranges may be a little faster, but the manual setup of them and even getting search to resume is clunky and/or impossible. With that in mind though, any hardware receiver these days is likely woefully inadequate in these areas when facing the capabilities of a software defined radio.

Suffice to say that my $200 Airspy blows the DV1 out of the water when it comes to searching, simply by displaying several MHz of spectrum simultaneously. This is an area where the SDR will win every time, IMHO.

I can't see myself using this receiver for scanning or search ranges.

 

[n2pqq]

Well after reading numberous threads about
Dv ar1 I come away with the conclusion
the radio is not worth purchasing.

I had strongly considered purchasing it for
the digital modes.

Alas it seems DSD Plus can do the same
at no cost .

Unless someone can explain why this radio
Is worth purchasing I will have to pass on it.

It is a shame because I really was looking
forward to its release .

 

[AA6IO]

This radio is not a scanner. But even for a receiver, its scan/search speed is really slowwwwwwww.
About 4 channels scan per second is what I have also gotten despite updates in firmware. I ultimately bought the receiver, but as time goes on, its limitations become more and more apparent. For someone who has a lot of NXDN and DMR in their area and wants a stand-alone receiver, may be a consideration. But you really cannot scan or search a group of channels with this receiver.
I'm waiting for the Butel software but do realize that other than obviously speeding up the programming process, its not going to add any functionality to this receiver. I will be totally honest here. I paid less than the going rate for this receiver. I bought it directly from AOR, who gave a break for helping them do some initial beta-testing. Even that price was probably too high, but I can afford it, and maybe something will come out of it.
But for anyone looking for anything resembling a scanner, absolutely forget it. Any of the digital scanners I have listed below in my signature are far better than the AR-DV1 for anything except obviously they don't have NXDN and DMR. I honestly cannot recommend this radio to most people.
But for some looking specifically for a standalone, all digital radio, maybe something to consider. "Maybe" is the operative word.

 

[KC1UA]

I have determined that I will not be keeping this receiver. Many thanks to Jeff at Hamstation for allowing me to test it.

 

[vince48]

Scott
you gave it a gallant try, but this receiver IMHO is just not a finished product. I still think it is shameful that AOR would market this receiver and let the consumer do all the alpha testing for them. I had wished this receiver would have potential because I'm looking for a one in all solution, but this is not the one.

vince48