The biggest lie in ham radio

mmckenna

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There is clearly a place for amateur radio service and that is to pass traffic. In an emergency it is obviously not the first choice when cellular or Iridium service are available. Additionally, with amateur radio one never knows if someone is monitoring whether simplex or via a repeater. My tax dollars were used to build the professional infrastructure and I like it that way. Using amateur radio to pass traffic is also where I have spent money and I like it that way.
Yep, absolutely.
I think what most are pointing out is that amateur radio operators on their own are not first responders. They are trained to operate a piece of equipment. That equipment can absolutely be useful. But a radio is just one tool in the first responders tool box.

Doesn't matter where the guy is from, it applies everywhere.

And it's a very valid point. Amateur radio operators need to train as teams. They need to have reliable equipment. They need to know their place (as in -not getting in the way-). And ideally, they need to have more tools in their tool box than just radio. Amateur clubs interested in assisting agencies should understand the incident command structure. They should have first aid/first responder training. They should be able to do more than just operate a radio. With modern radio equipment, satellite systems, ALE on HF, the need for dedicated radio operators is shrinking to the point that it's not really necessary in most cases. Most large agencies have on staff radio guys that can fill in where needed (any most of them are hams…) Large agencies, local and state OES, etc. have portable systems that can be brought in.

Living in California we face a lot of disasters. Just recently we had wide spread shut downs of the electric utility. After a few hours cellular sites failed. But our radio systems stayed up just fine. Our wired telephones stayed up just fine. At no point did anyone consider calling in amateur radio operators to assist.

I'm a ham. Amateur radio has its place. Some hams don't want to hear that. I get it.
 

jaspence

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A number of statistics including how many died. As a spotter, I have been involved in situations where people didn't die due to the volunteer spotters reports. I have also been involved in search and rescue where the sheriff and fire departments had all their people involved in emergency situations and our radios and people handled the less serious events. Thankfully this doesn't happen often, but when it does, the family radios and untrained help are useless.
 

AI7PM

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......
I don't understand why some people are so down on communities having a pool of volunteers who are willing to provide communications during an emergency when the local infrastructure is out. Ideally people should be hoping that these groups are never needed.
I don't think it's objection to a pool of volunteers, it's to certain elements in the pool of volunteers.
 

mmckenna

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Many Hams just use Emcoms to creat a reason for them to feel important. With all of the fancy titles , AEC , DEC , ect ......
I think when you really dig down to the crux of the issue, that's certainly part of it.
Some hams really do want to help and do the right thing, let us not forget that, though.
But there certainly is a faction of amateur radio that really likes the call sign badges, reflective safety vests and blinky lights on their vehicles. That's usually where the problems start.
 

KE0GXN

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Ham radio is probably one of the last communications service I would rely on in an emergency. My first reaction would be to use services that handle that sort of thing regularly, that are trained for it or are at least have the resources (and authority) that hams don't typically have.
Ham radio sort of takes the small stuff, not the biggies. It can be a relief for services that do handle the biggies. If you just have to assist in those biggies join the military, PD, FD, whatever. Getting into ham radio so you can participate in those biggies, you need to re-think it, 'cuz it's very rare to do stuff like that. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't participate! It means that don't expect to. And when you're told to shut up, get away from here... do so.
Couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately there is that small percentage that does not heed such advice which leads to whackers or wannabe heroes, etc....which gives the hobby as a whole a bad reputation among potential served entities.

But I digress, every profession/group has bad apples that ruin it for the rest. :cautious:
 

KE0GXN

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I think when you really dig down to the crux of the issue, that's certainly part of it.
Some hams really do want to help and do the right thing, let us not forget that, though.
But there certainly is a faction of amateur radio that really likes the call sign badges, reflective safety vests and blinky lights on their vehicles. That's usually where the problems start.
With that said, I also do not think we should be as quick to be dismissive of their potential to be of assistance....(minus the whackers).

I have been on job for over 23 years and I am paid and expected to handle the “biggies” but I am also still humble enough to know that the public safety profession is not the end all be all. Civilians, that are proficient in providing certain services can be of assistance as well.
 

StaticDischarge

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You are kidding, aren't you? You want to start censoring it? Things like Stalin, 1984 and Chairman Mao come to mind.
Then go ahead and have my share too while you are soaking all that ignorance in... oh, censorship is your ideal, mine is proofreading and the rest of us pressuring the moron to remove his barf from public view...
 

KK4JUG

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Then go ahead and have my share too while you are soaking all that ignorance in... oh, censorship is your ideal, mine is proofreading and the rest of us pressuring the moron to remove his barf from public view...
Censorship is NOT my ideal.

Go back and read this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That's what give you the right to disagree with me, too.
 

StaticDischarge

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Censorship is NOT my ideal.

Go back and read this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That's what give you the right to disagree with me, too.
So can you say "for a redress of grievances" for spewing untrue barf??? What happens then? NOTHING???? And the way you make it sound, yeah, absolutely NOTHING... Let no man be accountable for anything he does or says....

I have to go find something else to do... My waders aren't good enough to protect me from this...
 

trentbob

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MSAT, Iridium, Global Star, VSAT

All independent of terrestrial infrastructur. Iridium even offers PTT, one to many service.

The military offers satellite based data and voice communication with the added benefit of type 1 cryptography. Something ham radio can’t offer in the US.

The author of the video hit on some hard to swallow truths.
No doubt the infrastructure is there to provide us communication on the highest level internationally and nationally in the time of national emergency.

Less need for the traditional public service that ham operators have been legendary to provide.

I'm still not sure that the communication protocol that you quoted would afford family members a chance to speak with or find out the well-being of other family members via communication between two ham operators.

Some ham operators are ready and aware of there obligation and Duty to step in during a national emergency. Do we really want to remove that responsibility and voluntary obligation from them?

Is it time now to make them irrelevant?

It's highly unlikely that that type of emergency targeting all of the infrastructure you identified would be instantly wiped out but there's always the chance that would happen.

What would be left then?

Let the guys with the adequate equipment, supplemental power supply and excellent antenna Farm standby and be ready to participate in a well-organized network to provide the public service they can offer in a true National Emergency.
 

vagrant

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Aren't we all supposed to die in 12 years anyway because of "Global Warming?"
At least we'll get another solar cycle in to work some DX.

Hey, anyone know if there is a standard on how long a cell tower site should stay up if and when on backup power? If so, anyone know how long that would be? (Guesses do not help)
 

trentbob

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Aren't we all supposed to die in 12 years anyway because of "Global Warming?"
Now now now this is not the political forum and it doesn't make sense to quote an ignorant socialist one-term congresswoman from the Bronx.. and it's not really global warming but cow farts, so let's stay on topic! :ROFLMAO:

This really is a very interesting thread. The initial video is provocative and makes no sense but the mission of amateur radio and it's tradition and history should dictate it's future.
 

mmckenna

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At least we'll get another solar cycle in to work some DX.

Hey, anyone know if there is a standard on how long a cell tower site should stay up if and when on backup power? If so, anyone know how long that would be? (Guesses do not help)
Like everything the FCC does, there's a number of variables. But 8 hours is what is required for cell sites that are connected to an electric utility.
Central offices are 24 hours.

I can tell you that it varies. Battery systems are expensive, so are generators, solar, fuel cells, etc.
I've seen sites that didn't stay up at all. I've got one at work that does ~about~ 7 hours.
As equipment is added and removed, battery plant designs don't always get adjusted.
Then figure in proper maintenance, which doesn't always happen.

FCC R&O 15-98 is what covers this.

Again, it's complex, so variables, timelines, etc.
 

kayn1n32008

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Some ham operators are ready and aware of there obligation and Duty to step in during a national emergency. Do we really want to remove that responsibility and voluntary obligation from them?
There is no ‘duty’, ‘responsibility’ or ‘obligation’ to help in a disaster.

It's highly unlikely that that type of emergency targeting all of the infrastructure you identified would be instantly wiped out but there's always the chance that would happen.

What would be left then?
Nothing. If that kind of ‘disaster’ were to wipe out all commercial communications, that would be called ‘end of the world’. I will be busy getting my family to a predetermined safe place. It will be Dystopian kind of times and I will be too busy looking after my family and I to be worried about ham radio.

Let the guys with the adequate equipment, supplemental power supply and excellent antenna Farm standby and be ready to participate in a well-organized network to provide the public service they can offer in a true National Emergency.
Keep telling your self that.
 

trentbob

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There is no ‘duty’, ‘responsibility’ or ‘obligation’ to help in a disaster.



Nothing. If that kind of ‘disaster’ were to wipe out all commercial communications, that would be called ‘end of the world’. I will be busy getting my family to a predetermined safe place. It will be Dystopian kind of times and I will be too busy looking after my family and I to be worried about ham radio.



Keep telling your self that.
Of course there is no obligatory Duty other than what's in the mind of some individuals.

All I'm saying is if some people want to think it's their Duty and are ready to serve in a true National Emergency let them continue to think that way.

Let's not deflate and discount their efforts to be ready to serve.
 
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