The death of 800 MHz Nextel iDEN network (in pictures-spectrum view before and after)

[rescue161]

Sprint was great for their PCS service, but they cannot get the PTT thing down at all. I was unable to direct-connect with my wife today at all. It's very frustrating, 'cause that's how we communicate. I don't text and don't need the web or a smart phone. I just need a PTT solution that is wide-area coverage. Nextel worked; Sprint does not.

 

[ecps92]

Sprint - the Maybe Not Now Network

Rapid, I'm not too pleased with Sprint, either. Lots of dropouts, slow with data.

I won't be renewing my contract, either.

 

[szron]

I'm surprised that no one had introduced the next dedicated PTT solution. Knowing how many people rely on this form of communication this is really bizarre. Everybody was using them, contractors, taxis, utilities even public safety. Currently available solutions are at best unreliable, at worst completely useless. There's a void in the market.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I'm surprised that the noise floor did not appear to drop at all.

 

[WayneH]

You're still going to have cellular affecting the noise floor. I spend my days around radio sites and cellular is no different than being near an iDEN site. At least desense won't be as bad as before with the in/out of band carriers.

I used Sprint's PTT service a lot about five years ago and it was frustrating all to hell. Group calling would drop members and not let them back in, great service but no PTT and poor hand-offs. Guess that's not been fixed.

 

[greenthumb]

You consider 50 to 70W high power?

It is all relative - but scanners can't handle the low height, high ERP sites all over town. Remember, multiply the number of transmitters by the ERP of each and it doesn't take long to get some numbers approaching 1 KW in a sector that's only 75' off of the ground pointed at an intersection...

 

[Drachen_Fire]

I don't know what everyone hates about Sprint PTT. I have it, and it works great around Pittsburgh here. A lot better than Verizon PTT, IMHO.

 

[MTS2000des]

Sprint's LTE is super fast in Atlanta and built out further than at&turd. They also have the only truly unlimited data plan at an affordable price. Their network works in some places the almighty overpriced "big red" does not in this market- that being said:

the complaints I have heard from one local beverage company who migrated from iDEN to Sprint Direct Connect (the new name for their PTT over cellular product) says it SUCKS. The handsets are total garbage, freeze up, and eat batteries. They are looking at switching to a local MotoTRBO ESMR or NXDN trunked SMR operator in the Atlanta area.

Nextel was once revered for the way they treated business customers, had some of the highest ARPU's in the industry in the "pre smartphone" days of wireless. Once the fad of the "Nextel chirp" wore off from the general public when the smartphone caught their eye, iDEN was on the chopping block in 2004/2005. even with WiDEN the max throughput you could ever get was equivalent to EDGE, and only in ideal conditions.

The "Power Source" hybrid phones was the classic example of an epic Sprint F A I L.

Sprint destroyed Nextel, and they intended to- they wanted- no CRAVED- that valuable 800MHz SMR spectrum. They aren't as dumb as we think. The fact that SoftBank is after them like a stalker pursuing the hottest girl in Hollywood is proof of this.

iDEN is doomed in the USA. Once Southern LINC moves to TETRA, it will only be a matter of time before Motorola ends support for iDEN the way they have ended support for all other "legacy" RPG networks like Smartnet analog, Privacy Plus, etc. AirPeak won't be far behind.

Hytera already has contracts to build out new TETRA networks for two large EMC's in my state. TETRA is here, and it is the new iDEN.

 

[rescue161]

I don't know what everyone hates about Sprint PTT. I have it, and it works great around Pittsburgh here. A lot better than Verizon PTT, IMHO.

I keep telling myself that I'm going to make a video of the failures that I'm experiencing. Daily failure to connects to phone lock-ups. Both require powering down the phone to re-establish DC service. I just find it rediculous that everything on the phone works except DC, forcing me to shut the phone off and back on again. Then DC works like it should.

 

[radioman2001]

With the demise of NextHell there are a lot of private digital networks popping up all over. Large area Mototrbo and probably a few IDAS/NextEdge systems are being built which in my opinion is good for competition, and the last stronghold of 2-way radio shops. A number of radio dealers have gotten together in the NYC area to build a large system to compete with NextHell basically why do you need to have a radio that talks from New York to California, most customers talk within 50-100 miles so it's not needed, and if it is use a cell phone. We got switched and the service is terrible and frustrating, we are working on placing more IDAS transmitters up and go back to our own private system for all comms not related to train movement. We have the infrastructure (our own fiber) no cost there, transmitters are cheap about $500.00 ea. and the sites we own.
Sprint I believe is only keeping 2-way available so as not to lose too many customers at once.

 

[ecps92]

a.) It says you are not in a DC Zone (downtown Boston)
b.) Numerous Reboots / Profile Updates to Reconnect to DC
c.) Phone reboots by itself 3-4 times daily
d.) Lack of Coverage altho 1/4 mile from 4 towers
e.) Too fast to send out Airave Access Points, than fix tower sites
f.) D/C's that go thru, but the other party is told it didn't
g.) D/C attempt that locks up phone, requiring complete battery removal
h.)

I don't know what everyone hates about Sprint PTT. I have it, and it works great around Pittsburgh here. A lot better than Verizon PTT, IMHO.

 

[jpryor]

With the demise of NextHell there are a lot of private digital networks popping up all over. Large area Mototrbo and probably a few IDAS/NextEdge systems are being built which in my opinion is good for competition, and the last stronghold of 2-way radio shops. A number of radio dealers have gotten together in the NYC area to build a large system to compete with NextHell basically why do you need to have a radio that talks from New York to California, most customers talk within 50-100 miles so it's not needed, and if it is use a cell phone. We got switched and the service is terrible and frustrating, we are working on placing more IDAS transmitters up and go back to our own private system for all comms not related to train movement. We have the infrastructure (our own fiber) no cost there, transmitters are cheap about $500.00 ea. and the sites we own.
Sprint I believe is only keeping 2-way available so as not to lose too many customers at once.

Ya, our city of Toledo services, utilities and such all went Nextel when the public safety analog 800 went to p25 a number of years back. Now with Nextel out, all are back on the cities new UHF DMR mototrbo system, so can actually hear again. Just need the local electric utility that went Nextel back to something we can hear again.

 

[szron]

Large area Mototrbo and probably a few IDAS/NextEdge systems are being built which in my opinion is good for competition, and the last stronghold of 2-way radio shops.

It's true that wide-area TRBO and IDAS/NxtEdg systems are popping out and providing good communication for bussineses that won't go buying own freqs and hardware but Nextel had an advantage. It was more than wide-area. It was all over. And much more affordable for "regular" people. If Nextel was still around lots of people I know would still be using it and they aren't necessarily doing it for business purposes.

While it's true that for local utilities DMR systems will be enough there will be a market that it wouldn't work for. Contractors that were a big chunk of users of Nextel go all over the country. Unless somebody will try to create a nation-wide DMR system (not impossible, rather impractical and expensive) they will have to rely on IP based PTT...

 

[TinMan61]

Interesting. I think TELUS in Canada is continuing its iDEN network for a while yet (if not, there are some very surprised ambulance services in my area as of today!).

It's too bad the chunk hasn't been returned to PS use/"ownership". It'd be nice to have 764 straight through to 869 (less "cellular" of course) for our use.

800 mHz was reconfigured for commercial/Sprint-Nextel in 2004 - the costs for reconfiguration were born by Sprint-Nextel...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[DrachenFire]

It sounds incredibly dumb, but.........

Try upgrading the firmware, then get the software updates, then reboot the phone. The Kyocera brand phones have not failed me yet, and I've been on Sprint DC since it was released. We've had the DuraPlus and the DuraCore. We will likely be switching to the Kyocera Torque, still on DC.

Also, it seems that some Metros are better than others with Sprint, and always have been.

My last iDen phone was a Motorola i1, and it was good at some things. The DC was fast, the music player was loud, and the voice phone was clear. It just sucked at being a smartphone.

 

[jim202]

I was a Nextel customer for a long time. After Sprint took over, the coverage went down hill. You couldn't drive from the Washington DC area to Richmond VA without dropping coverage. Again if you went north on the interstate to Baltimore, the coverage had holes. Sprint just plain didn't care. They even laid off a number of their good RF engineers not too long after picking up Nextel. You can't have a good system without good RF engineering talent. It sure has shown in their operation after they let the engineers go.

When Katrina went through New Orleans, all long distance telephone circuits with the outside ceased to exist. After about 3 days, Nextel did get some long distance service to work and you could make DC or PTT service connections outside the region.

But in general, the management at Sprint does not have a clue how to make their customers happy, provide good coverage or even retain their customers. All the other cellular carriers are enjoying the churn from Sprint to them.

My guess is that you won't even see Sprint around in about 2 or 3 years from now unless there is a major shift in upper management. Time will tell just how this turns out. But if the past is any indicator, I could make a killing on this bet.

 

[kayn1n32008]

The death of 800 MHz Nextel iDEN network (in pictures-spectrum view before and

Interesting. I think TELUS in Canada is continuing its iDEN network for a while yet (if not, there are some very surprised ambulance services in my area as of today!).

It's too bad the chunk hasn't been returned to PS use/"ownership". It'd be nice to have 764 straight through to 869 (less "cellular" of course) for our use.

I can not see Telus operating iDEN for too much longer. Or if they do it will only be in Calgary and Edmonton, for companies like EPCOR/Calgary Transit. Telus is currently operating 4 unique technologies across 3, probably in the near future 4 bands, (800MHz iDEN, 800MHz CDMA, 800MHz UMTS, 1900MHz UMTS and 2100MHz LTE) as a side note I do not see Bell or Telus operating CDMA for much longer either and I will miss my M800...

As for PS use/"ownership", do not forget all of the commercial use of 800MHz for rental/company radio systems.


Sent from an unknown place...

 

[HM1529]

I don't know what everyone hates about Sprint PTT. I have it, and it works great around Pittsburgh here. A lot better than Verizon PTT, IMHO.

My office has had Nextel for years. Obviously, in the last year+, coverage dropped like a rock as sites were decommissioned. I explained to the people in charge of our phone contracts why this was happening, so they weighed various options and ended up staying with Sprint, just on the Sprint side of the network. The Sprint version of PTT has been terrible. While the overall coverage is better than it had been in recent memory, what's the point if the new direct connect is not working much of the time. And, we have experienced a lot of dropped calls since getting the new phones at the beginning of the year. Frustrating. Luckily, we have ruggedized phones that I can toss in frustration now and then.

And, we're not operating in the sticks. Our office covers the five county southeastern PA metro area around Philly.

 

[ajeffri]

As a scanner owner and *taxpayer* who has gone through the re-banding on 800 MHz..GOOD RIDDANCE!

 

[ecps92]

Considering SPRINT payed for the rebanding, it was well worth it.

As a scanner owner and *taxpayer* who has gone through the re-banding on 800 MHz..GOOD RIDDANCE!