The "Encryption" Elephant in the room....

[WILSON43]

While I was not an overwhelming fan of the SDS100, I am somewhat confident the SDS200 may be much better in many ways.

Just like my 436 went back, but I still have a 536, which for MY purposes performs much better than the 436.

with the above in mind, should early adopter reports match the performance I've seen in SDS200 videos, I was considering purchasing this unit. Until I found out that a few of our major systems here in NJ< favorites of many, have gone partial, or totally encrypted. A poster in another thread openly pondered why people in NJ, and I guess other states for that matter, would plop down $700 plus for what is rapidly becoming high tech paperweights.

It is certainly the Elephant in the room for me, and something to seriously consider when considering future high ticket scanner radios.

 

[K7MFC]

Elephant in the room

Not sure if you understand this idiom - it means a large problem that nobody wants to discuss. Encryption is discussed non-stop on these forums, almost ad nauseum, such that sometimes threads get locked at the mention of encryption. The topic couldn't be farther from an "elephant in the room." And, yes - any scanner, regardless of price, is useless on a system that is 100% encrypted.

 

[mciupa]

If you notice, most threads are involving encryption and on-line scanning broadcasting that get locked. Encryption discussion is permitted, what gets the thread locked is people making personal attacks or vulgar language. Thread locking is collateral damage due to personal attacks on members.

Almost all law enforcement in Canada is encrypted. I've learned to broaden my monitoring and focus on discovery of unpublished systems. Keeps me busy.

 

[Giddyuptd]

It is ideal to monitor a system to see if there is any radios xmitting out of secure. Seen them used for that purpose by techs but mainly it's easier to have a radio without the key and use that to monitor the system raw without key and wait to hear a user in clear. There is more modern ways but I've seen scanners used by smaller in house techs for that purpose.

 

[WILSON43]

Further defined the "idiom" is something a select few do not want to discuss or acknowledge, thus the "Elephant" in the room.
This is the Uniden "Tavern", and as such discussions of this type should be welcomed, not locked or closed as long as everyone is respectful.

Yes, there are other things to monitor on other bands, but there are dozens of older, used scanners that work fine on those areas for a lot less money. While Txing out of secure may exist in systems, the question remains as to whether many can justify 700 or more for a scanner , facing it's possible demise as a paperweight.

Don't misunderstand, am seriously considering an SDS200, but I grapple with this issue.

 

[K7MFC]

there are dozens of older, used scanners that work fine on those areas for a lot less money.

The SDS200 is the Lamborghini of scanners - it's a luxury, if you want it and you can afford it, buy it! When oil runs dry, the Lamborghini will be obsolete, but it sure was fun while you had it... You could also buy a used Honda Civic that will get you from point A to B just like the Lambo, albeit with less power and fewer features. So if you're happy with your older scanners and can still hear everything you want to hear, keep using them!

 

[Peerlessk]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around full encryption . That I don’t get . I’ve seen agencies shut off encryption. “ use when needed “ should be the standard . Each state/counties that suffers full encryption should keep fighting it . Transparency needs a voice . What the hell do we pay taxes for?

 

[allend]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around full encryption . That I don’t get . I’ve seen agencies shut off encryption. “ use when needed “ should be the standard . Each state/counties that suffers full encryption should keep fighting it . Transparency needs a voice . What the hell do we pay taxes for?

You can fight all you want and agree or dis-agree but this is the new normal and more agency are on board with locking more and more down and that's it. You can breathe down their necks all you want and what you feel is right or wrong but it does not matter to them at this point. Keep in mind some agencies and there was only a handful at the time have been encrypted for almost 20 yrs now.

Like I said before if can't beat em join them. Or figure out other means to get what you want. This subject has been beaten by a dead horse after a dead horse back and forth until the next horse has been beaten. Our hobby has no fighting chance at all at this point. They do not care about us. Even if we pay for them to support these systems with tax payer dollars. Until technology can work in our favor down the road we pretty much are screwed. Hopefully down the road the tables can turn somehow or someway.

 

[tkowalik]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around full encryption . That I don’t get.

Me neither but I'm starting to figure it out. 'Back in the day,' it was old retirees and farmers who listened to scanners. The farmers would hear of a grass fire in a rural area and show up driving a tractor with a disk harrow or fertilizer trucks with water to help the volunteer fire department. Some retirees learned CPR and would show up to help a neighbor having a heart attack. Others would hear an officer in need of help and show up, knowing that backup was across the county. Yes, I've seen or heard of all of these situations and it used to work beautifully.

Then came a society where police start to fear that 'dem druggies and criminals are listening' without ever personally witnessing it. Firefighters and EMTs begin to lament the fact they have to train, often times wear over-the-top PPE, follow a command structure while the situation has been largely controlled by amateurs. County leaders start to fear lawsuits if a scanner listener shows up to help and is injured.

Radio manufacturers delightfully throw away the concept of interoperability and play on these fears and complaints for their own monetary benefit. A rural county on VHF wants to communicate with a metro county on EDACS Provoice? Buy two radios! Enter ESD's and all the money that comes with them. New trucks! Paid Personnel! New equipment! But most of all, New RADIOS! And you wont have to worry about those 'hillbilly scanner wackos' showing up because everything we learn in LODD reports about the ability to communicate, we throw out the window and ENCRYPT!

The concept that criminals are purchasing high end scanners, are able to program them, and understand what is being communicated is a concept I vehemently disagree with. Are there some? Possibly. But I don't think the problem is as widespread as sometimes advertised. Streaming apps could be a bit more of a problem but it also works two ways. A scanner scanning a busy system's dispatch channels could miss a dispatch leading to a criminal believing the cops haven't been called when in fact, they missed the transmission.

I see the public safety industry coming full circle eventually and more and more will drop encryption except for a very select few TAC channels (which I totally support).

(By the way, I write 'hillbilly scanner wacko' as tounge-in-cheek. I listen, so I guess I am one).

 

[Peerlessk]

Having a friend that is a State trooper . I’ve asked how many time he has pulled someone over that they had a scanner or made an arrest by responding to a call that anyone had one . His reply ? In my 23 years three times I’ve seen a scanner twice in a vehicle , the other ? A demonstration of a cell phone app, scanner app . So that card the agencies are playing making it sound like all criminals carry scanners is absurd .

 

[Hans13]

You can fight all you want and agree or dis-agree but this is the new normal and more agency are on board with locking more and more down and that's it. You can breathe down their necks all you want and what you feel is right or wrong but it does not matter to them at this point

That depends on if you are a citizen or a subject. If only I had a dollar for every time someone said that about an issue we later prevailed upon...

 

[teknishun]

While I was not an overwhelming fan of the SDS100, I am somewhat confident the SDS200 may be much better in many ways.

Just like my 436 went back, but I still have a 536, which for MY purposes performs much better than the 436.

with the above in mind, should early adopter reports match the performance I've seen in SDS200 videos, I was considering purchasing this unit. Until I found out that a few of our major systems here in NJ< favorites of many, have gone partial, or totally encrypted. A poster in another thread openly pondered why people in NJ, and I guess other states for that matter, would plop down $700 plus for what is rapidly becoming high tech paperweights.

It is certainly the Elephant in the room for me, and something to seriously consider when considering future high ticket scanner radios.

They are NOT hi tech paperweights. Just because they are called police scanners does not mean you must use them just
for police, fire, EMS. There is a lot of stuff to listen to besides first responders. There is aircraft and airports, school buses,
public buses, ham radio, plants or refineries using DMR systems, and railroads, and auto races and Nascar, certain wireless microphones, the
older type baby monitors (there are still lots of them out there), utility companies, taxi cabs, the news media and their remote
trucks, National Weather Service using the SAME warnings, even people ordering lunch at the local Jack in the Box or McDonald's.
That should be enough entertainment for practically anyone. Plus you can "find" new things by doing search.

 

[Peerlessk]

They are NOT hi tech paperweights. Just because they are called police scanners does not mean you must use them just
for police, fire, EMS. There is a lot of stuff to listen to besides first responders. There is aircraft and airports, school buses,
public buses, ham radio, plants or refineries using DMR systems, and railroads, and auto races and Nascar, certain wireless microphones, the
older type baby monitors (there are still lots of them out there), utility companies, taxi cabs, the news media and their remote
trucks, National Weather Service using the SAME warnings, even people ordering lunch at the local Jack in the Box or McDonald's.
That should be enough entertainment for practically anyone. Plus you can "find" new things by doing search.

Waste management is highly entertaining, road crews . Etc

 

[allend]

They are NOT hi tech paperweights. Just because they are called police scanners does not mean you must use them just
for police, fire, EMS. There is a lot of stuff to listen to besides first responders. There is aircraft and airports, school buses,
public buses, ham radio, plants or refineries using DMR systems, and railroads, and auto races and Nascar, certain wireless microphones, the
older type baby monitors (there are still lots of them out there), utility companies, taxi cabs, the news media and their remote
trucks, National Weather Service using the SAME warnings, even people ordering lunch at the local Jack in the Box or McDonald's.
That should be enough entertainment for practically anyone. Plus you can "find" new things by doing search.

Yeah cool lets buy a 700.00 dollar radio to listen to baby monitors.

 

[bearcatrp]

I remember when P25 was coming out and everyone was crying our scanning hobby is over. Then P25 scanners came out. Have no problem with police encryption on tac channels when needed. I hear encryption is coming slowly to my state. Sucks but beyond my control. Just bought a icom R30 instead of the new SDS200. My 436 will hold me over a bit until I decide on the SDS200. If your area is 100% encryption and that’s all you listen to, don’t buy it. Like others said, other things to listen to.

 

[iMONITOR]

While there is some encryption in my area it's not in wide use and not 100% of the time. However what's in the clear these days is very limited, brief and lacking in any details. I think MDT's and smart phones take over when it gets to the nitty gritty stuff.

One of the reasons I bought an AOR DV1 was to discover what's out there besides public safety communications.

 

[bearcatrp]

How are you liking your AOR? I looked at that before buying the R30. Had a 8200 1st gen many years ago. Was top receiver back then. Hard learning curve. Nice thing about receivers is plenty to listen to. Using any antennas besides what came with it? Am considering the icom 8600 down the road.

 

[darkness975]

Some people enjoy school buses, kids on family radio service, and baby monitors.

The rest of us prefer what we really bought scanners for. Police, fire, and EMS transmissions.

And if someone tells me I should just trust the news media to keep me informed fully, accurately, and unbiased, I will laugh them into the ground.

 

[allend]

Some people enjoy school buses, kids on family radio service, and baby monitors.

The rest of us prefer what we really bought scanners for. Police, fire, and EMS transmissions.

And if someone tells me I should just trust the news media to keep me informed fully, accurately, and unbiased, I will laugh them into the ground.

I am really not trying to get off topic but I am sure I can guarantee that scanner listeners do not buy radios to listen to baby monitors. This is absolutely absurd. No offense.

 

[iMONITOR]

How are you liking your AOR? I looked at that before buying the R30. Had a 8200 1st gen many years ago. Was top receiver back then. Hard learning curve. Nice thing about receivers is plenty to listen to. Using any antennas besides what came with it? Am considering the icom 8600 down the road.

I like it a lot! I had a little problem with the noisy switching wall-wart power supply. I'm running it off my Astron RS-12M power supply, problem solved. I'm finding a lot of VHF frequencies that supposedly have been out of service for some time that are still active, and some that were analog are now P25. Works very well on the air bands too! Much to explore.