Nah! Long ways to go. Still lots of scanning left. It's not all doom and gloom.
The end of scanner development and mfg.
- Thread starter frazpo
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Even if they lift the ban on monitoring encryption there is no scanner available to the public that can do so. All they need to do is turn encryption off. Public safety did not switch to other bands to get away from scanners as you say. Radio Shack is not gone, and what do they have to do with Radio Reference? They had/have nothing in common. Your post is very confusing.
That might be a serious consideration depending on where you live.
sfb88
Member
While we are talking about markets and monitoring, how is VHF marine doing? Could be loss of scanner sensitivity but I heal a lot less non-commercial marine traffic lately. I suspect it has transferred to cell phones. I have even heard the Coast Guard ask for and offer cell numbers.
Cell phones are so much clear than marine VHF, plus they give GPS coordinates, transmit pictures etc.
Same can be said for CB, amateur radio, business band and the list goes on and on. Cell phones have been a game changer for many types of communication. As the baby boomers retire, the next generation up has all they need (and want) in the palm of their hand. And I see it creeping into public safety - "Unit xyz, call communications", EMS using cell phones to communicate with hospitals, police detectives using cell phones instead of radios, MDTs. Nothing stays the same - a new era in communications is coming or is here and it ain't heard on a scanner and never will be. Watch an episode of 'Cops' or 'Live Rescue' and see how much time the officer/EMT/fire truck officer spends looking at the MDT vs talking on the radio.
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Even if they lift the ban on monitoring encryption there is no scanner available to the public that can do so. All they need to do is turn encryption off. Public safety did not switch to other bands to get away from scanners as you say. Radio Shack is not gone, and what do they have to do with Radio Reference? They had/have nothing in common. Your post is very confusing.
Back in the 70's, I remember reading an article from a newspaper (long before internet..lol), and the police chief from a south suburban Chicago department switched to 800 mhz. because , "they knew no scanners could monitor them". That turned out later on to be a non-issue. In today's world, replace encryption with 800 mhz. Many departments claim "officer safety" when they justify encryption because scanners can't monitor them.
Before their was a need for UHF-T/800 mhz/trunking..the list goes on, their weren't any scanners available to monitor those bands either. If their is a market, they will figure it out.
Radio Shack has closed it's doors all around by me, and the only way we could find anything out was to buy a Police Call directory to get frequency information. Now you can get immediate updates at Radio Reference....so it's the only game in town.
Public Safety monitoring is the driving force behind the scanner market. While their might be a smaller market for marine or railroad monitoring, public safety is what most of us purchase them for. Uniden has resolved the simulcast issue for may of us, and unless something changes legally, I also think it's heading into obscurity down the road.
The same thing can be said (unfortunately) about anything that does NOT involve staring at a cell 'phone like an enraptured zombie...
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Maybe, but that's a lot of work and a lot of money for hobbyists.
Law enforcement already has an established need for encryption, so fighting that is likely not going to go too far.
As for accountability, the argument will be that recordings are already available via freedom of information requests.
Real time monitoring for hobbyists might be a "nice to have" thing, but there's little in the way of valid justification on why law enforcement needs to change the way they do their job to benefit scanner hobbyists. With internet, cell phones, location based SMS messaging, etc. if the PD wants the publics help, they have ways of getting it, and it doesn't rely on a hobbyist having a scanner. Cell phones are ubiquitous, and it's easy enough to send out alerts. The town I live in does it frequently, including "we're looking for this guy" type messages.
I understand what you are saying, but the appeasing the monitoring hobbyists isn't a big enough reason to ban encryption.
Nothing to stop you from trying, though. It'll be a long uphill battle that'll require a load of money.
If those are all the "real" reasons why public safety began to encrypt how do you explain Live PD TV? As I said before, not only do they let you hear everything, they let you see everything. You even hear the officers express their personal feelings, their fears and strategies, tricks, deceptions. Even in heat of a barricaded gunman they let you hear and see in every detail how and where they surround the subject, what weapons they're using, where they're hiding, how many there are. They discuss in advance who they're going to believe or trust and whom they're going to arrest. In numerous episodes the suspects themselves are watching them on TV, listening and seeing their every move! So how do law abiding scanner listeners endanger officer's safety? But PD have no problem exposing everything for money! Lots of money!
As others have said, encryption is going to slowly kill the hobby it seems. If there's a way to fight encryption, it has a chance to continue. Manufacturers can always develop the technology to monitor more complex radio modes/systems, but nothing can be done about the E. There likely will be radios for many purposes for years to come, but public safety monitoring is only going to get more restricted it seems, unless someone can legally mount a challenge to it.
Everything I've read about LivePD indicates agencies receive no monetary compensation for their participation in the show.
Someone is getting paid I'm quite certain. Maybe the counties or state, then maybe departments are compensated with funds for addition gear. There would be nothing wrong with that. But why is ok to agree to do the show when they don't even want us listening to very limited audio?
I am sure Sticks Larkin is not doing the show for free and he is still a active member of the gang squad.
Yes especially when he's doing the LIVE PD CAM program!
I understand why law enforcement would want to adopt encryption but the question is how common or how many cases are there across the country where police operations were negatively affected by scanners assisting bad guys?
Also why would fire departments need encryption security? Is it a rare trend for FDs to adopt encryption or it’s happening often?
Also why would fire departments need encryption security? Is it a rare trend for FDs to adopt encryption or it’s happening often?
I think the biggest concern is liability rather than officer safety. Think of the numerous news stories when dispatch mishandles a real emergency and someone dies. With FD & EMS there may be HIPPA concerns.
HIPPA
Then again they have the newer TV show called LIVE RESCUE, that exposes everything. I'm fairly certain victims have to sign a release before those stories air.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Not really. For emergency care, it is not required. And usually they are not sending out the patients name.
No real need for EMS or FD encryption, with a few exceptions. Hobbyists not being on of them.
As for PD, there's many points of view, such as leaving dispatch channels in the clear and putting tac channels under encryption.
scanmanmi
Member
Actually I'm amazed all dispatching isn't done through MDT. The info could go out over MDT and then keep comm in the clear.
FD needs encryption to kill off the retards that come to do fake newscasts and only post negative things, get in the way, and yell insults etc. FD needs encryption to kill off rubbernecking retards. FD needs encryption so they can roll up on a mass shooting and not be targeted. And the biggest one that is the main one: FD needs encryption because the Legal Team of Takinyomoney & Gettinfat Wallet say its needed. That one also applies to all ER/ED, and EMS comms. If you still have questions, then you need to reread this over and over til it sinks in.
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