The GRE PSR-500/600 Multi-Site Advantage No Other Scanner Can Compete Against?

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ScannerSK

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With the PSR-500/600 scanners a multi-site setting of "STAT" with a set to scan all CCs setting of "No" forces the scanner to scan a different control channel for that specific system with each scan cycle.

Am I correct in saying that ONLY the PSR-500/600 type scanners have this capability?

I ordered a Uniden BCD996P2 only to find out that all enabled sites have to be scanned with each scan cycle. I ordered a TRX-2 only to find out that Whistler has removed the STAT setting from their new line of scanners so again all control channels have to be scanned with each scan cycle.

The reason this is important to me is that 95% of the channels I monitor are on a county system which only requires 1 control channel to monitor everything on the system while on the other hand 5% of the channels I monitor are on a state system which requires upwards of 13 control channels to capture all the channels on the system I monitor (which towers are carrying which talkgroups vary from day to day so 13 control channels are required).

With the PSR-500/600 series of scanners, my scanner spends an equal amount of time scanning the county system as it does the state system. With all other scanners, it takes around 13 times longer to scan the state system which only contains about 5% of my desired channels to monitor. Maybe if 95% of the channels I monitor were on the state system this would not be an issue however they are not and I would prefer spending most of my time checking the county system which contains 95% of the channels I monitor.

Am I missing something here or does the PSR-500/600 type scanners really have an advantage no other scanner offers?

To try and do the same to any other scanner (from what I understand) requires jimmy rigging things which introduce whole new sets of issues that have to be dealt with.

Will any scanner manufacturer make another scanner that has the capability of scanning a different site/control channel (out of a list of sites/control channels) with each scan cycle?

Shawn
 
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jonwienke

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It's marketing hype BS.

If the system is programmed properly, the scanner is NOT going to scan every site in a statewide system, just the one or two sites within range. Uniden scanners do this with Location Control--every system site is tagged with GPS coordinates, so if the scanner knows where it is (either via GPS or the user entering a ZIP code) it automatically disables all sites out of range. So a statewide system and a county system will take 1-2 seconds to scan, depending on whether one or two sites are in range.

If your 996P2 is scanning every site in the system, it's user error. Either you've created a Favorites List with Location Control turned OFF, you've entered incorrect coordinates for system site locations or service range, or you have Range in your location set to something stupidly large. Unless you're on a mountaintop in the middle of a flat plain, don't set it above 10.

Also each site only has one or possibly two control channels active, not 13. Your problem is that you are unnecessarily scanning too many sites, most of which are out of range.
 

Eng74

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The multi site that GRE and Whistler use can be better on some systems than the way Unidens works. Unidens has gotten better than when the 330, 15, 396, and 996 came out. The XT's and P2's you do not have to input all the TG's in for each site like the earlier radios. I think a lot of it is just which scanner you are used to using. I use both GRE/Whistler and Uniden, one brand may work better on one radio system than the other or it might not make any difference. The Uniden I can control more of which sites I want on or off while the GRE/Whistler they are all on or all off.
 

jonwienke

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With the BCDx36HP scanners, you can enable or disable sites individually. This is a big deal when monitoring a statewide system that can have several dozen sites.
 

ScannerSK

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It's marketing hype BS.
No other person has pointed this out that I am aware of; I believe the PSR-500/600 scanner can actually do something that no other scanner on the market that I am aware of is capable of doing (scan a different site/control channel from a list of sites/control channels with each scan cycle).

If the system is programmed properly, the scanner is NOT going to scan every site in a statewide system, just the one or two sites within range.
I am attempting to monitor traffic from only 13 of the 221 sites in the Colorado statewide DTRS system so that is definitely not the issue.

Here are a few more details on why 13 sites/control channels are required in my particular situation. I monitor traffic from some unique talkgroups which can only be received from specific sites (mostly mountain top repeaters) at my location. For example, I monitor NAWAS (National Warning System) traffic. Traffic from NAWAS is received on six sites at my location and which site the traffic is originating from varies over time (even from day to day) so all six sites are required to receive traffic from this one talkgroup/channel. I also like to monitor Denver's MetroNet which is best received at my location (40 miles away from Denver) from six sites (two of which are the same sites used to receive NAWAS). And, to always receive State Patrol and the remainder of the DTRS traffic I monitor requires six sites (three of which overlap sites used to monitor NAWAS). I end up with 13 unique sites required to monitor all the unique channels/talkgroups I monitor on the state system. There really is no way around this especially considering the traffic I desire to monitor originates from different sites on different days.

Uniden scanners do this with Location Control--every system site is tagged with GPS coordinates, so if the scanner knows where it is (either via GPS or the user entering a ZIP code) it automatically disables all sites out of range. So a statewide system and a county system will take 1-2 seconds to scan, depending on whether one or two sites are in range. If your 996P2 is scanning every site in the system, it's user error. Either you've created a Favorites List with Location Control turned OFF, you've entered incorrect coordinates for system site locations or service range, or you have Range in your location set to something stupidly large. Unless you're on a mountaintop in the middle of a flat plain, don't set it above 10.
GPS based scanning is a wonderful feature and works great when unique channels/talkgroups are not always being monitored (when just the regular police, fire, EMS, etc. are being monitored). However, once unique channels/talkgroups are added to the picture (which only originate from specific sites) then we are talking about a different animal and is the issue I am dealing with.

Also each site only has one or possibly two control channels active, not 13. Your problem is that you are unnecessarily scanning too many sites, most of which are out of range.
After the additional details provided above, I believe you will understand why all 13 sites are required. Out of range is a relative term. To monitor a site that is too weak to be decoded is out of range. To monitor a site that carries only distant uninteresting traffic is out of range. However, to monitor a site which is the only site carrying specific traffic desired of being monitored is not out of range. Add to this that the traffic only originates from a set of specific sites and that the site carrying the desired traffic varies from day to day and suddenly you have my situation.

Some might say just stop monitoring the unique talkgroups you enjoy monitoring or simply put up with having to wait for all the sites/control channels to be processed before circling back around to my main county system which contains 95% of my desired channels. But I say, why not have the option the PSR-500/600 scanners have to scan only one site/control channel out of list of sites/control channels with each scan cycle? Then I do not miss important traffic on my main system while waiting for the 13 sites/control channels to be processed on the state system? I would prefer just one state system site to be processed with each scan cycle out of the 13 enabled. The PSR-500/600 type of scanners can do this. I am not aware of any other scanners that can.

Shawn
 
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ScannerSK

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The Uniden I can control more of which sites I want on or off while the GRE/Whistler they are all on or all off.
Not to get off topic but as a quick FYI:

In the new Whistler TRX-2 (and most likely also the TRX-1) individual control channels can now be locked out per system. They no longer have to all be either on or off. Also, each control channel can now be given a specific site name. These are definitely improvements over the earlier models. Plus, the TRX-2 is touted to have a tighter front-end and no longer experience the interference issues notorious of earlier models.

I really enjoy the ability to assign every individual conventional frequency and every individual digital talkgroup to specific scan lists without the requirement to first group channels together as required in Uniden scanners. The differences between the two types of programming are quite fascinating.

Shawn
 
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jonwienke

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The following assumes you can receive and decode transmissions from all 13 sites at your location:

If monitoring your 13 sites is necessary to hear all traffic of interest, then all 13 sites will need to be scanned. If you do not scan all 13 sites, you WILL miss traffic on that system. If your scanner is only looking at one of the 13 control channels, you aren't helping yourself, you're just randomly choosing 1 of the 13 sites to scan when the scanner goes through the system.

If you want the county system to be scanned before plowing through all 13 state system sites, then set the Priority Channel flag on the county talkgroup(s) of interest and enable Priority Scan DND. The scanner will periodically interrupt scanning the state system to check the county system.
 

ScannerSK

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The following assumes you can receive and decode transmissions from all 13 sites at your location:
All 13 sites can be decoded at my location.

If monitoring your 13 sites is necessary to hear all traffic of interest, then all 13 sites will need to be scanned. If you do not scan all 13 sites, you WILL miss traffic on that system
Correct

If your scanner is only looking at one of the 13 control channels, you aren't helping yourself, you're just randomly choosing 1 of the 13 sites to scan when the scanner goes through the system.
It's actually not random; the PSR-500/600 type scanners alone appear to have the capability to scan a separate control channel each scan cycle in the precise order the frequencies are listed in the P25 system frequencies list. A person can even place duplicates of a specific control channel as well into the list to give it more attention.

This feature is a tremendous help to me as it allows what I consider to be the most important system/channels to receive the greatest attention while the state channels receive a lower priority of attention however all still function. I just cannot stand having to scan through every one of the required 13 state sites with each scan cycle to monitor slightly less important traffic.

If you want the county system to be scanned before plowing through all 13 state system sites, then set the Priority Channel flag on the county talkgroup(s) of interest and enable Priority Scan DND. The scanner will periodically interrupt scanning the state system to check the county system.
Uniden has advised that "DND Priority is only for conventional (not trunked) priority channels" so this will not help in my situation where trunked priority channels would need to be checked across systems to be of any assistance.

See also this great post regarding DND scanning by Uniden and the explanation as to why it was not made to apply to digital talkgroups: http://forums.radioreference.com/2414046-post5.html

Shawn
 
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jonwienke

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I've read those. You can set the priority interval to something other than 2 seconds. If you left the priority scan interval at 2 seconds, the scanner would check 2 sites from the state system, then scan the priority TGs from the county system, then 2 more state system sites, etc. It's not what most users would want, but would work for your unusual situation. You have to set Priority ID Scan on the county system.
 

phask

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996 do NOT use favorite lists - most users go not use location control on them either , though not saying you can't. You can't enter a Zipcode either.


It's marketing hype BS.

If the system is programmed properly, the scanner is NOT going to scan every site in a statewide system, just the one or two sites within range. Uniden scanners do this with Location Control--every system site is tagged with GPS coordinates, so if the scanner knows where it is (either via GPS or the user entering a ZIP code) it automatically disables all sites out of range. So a statewide system and a county system will take 1-2 seconds to scan, depending on whether one or two sites are in range.

If your 996P2 is scanning every site in the system, it's user error. Either you've created a Favorites List with Location Control turned OFF, you've entered incorrect coordinates for system site locations or service range, or you have Range in your location set to something stupidly large. Unless you're on a mountaintop in the middle of a flat plain, don't set it above 10.

Also each site only has one or possibly two control channels active, not 13. Your problem is that you are unnecessarily scanning too many sites, most of which are out of range.
 

ScannerSK

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I've read those. You can set the priority interval to something other than 2 seconds. If you left the priority scan interval at 2 seconds, the scanner would check 2 sites from the state system, then scan the priority TGs from the county system, then 2 more state system sites, etc. It's not what most users would want, but would work for your unusual situation. You have to set Priority ID Scan on the county system.
As DND priority only checks for "conventional" priority channels per Uniden this feature will not be of any assistance. I don't have any problem with my conventional channels.

And as for Priority ID Scan, the BCD996P2 manual on page 67 states, "The scanner can only look for priority IDs in the trunked system it is currently scanning." So, this will not help either as I would need something to check for priority IDs in a different system (county system) than the one being scanned (state system).

The facts are that neither DND Priority or Priority ID Scan will check for talkgroup priorities in a separate digital system according to the Uniden representative and their manuals.

So far, there are no other good options other than to use a PSR-500/600 type scanner in my specific situation that I am aware of. I have tried to find one and am still looking. I welcome additional suggestions.

The best possible solution that I have come up with to date is on the TRX-2 with multi-site roam settings set to 99/99 which should force the scanner to move on to a different site every three or four scan cycles from my experience with the PSR-500/600 scanners (when 13 control channels are programmed into a single site).

I may have a solution in the Uniden BCD996P2 scanner. Quick keys are scanned in order from lowest to highest number so a person could set up 1 county site to scan and then four state sites to scan and then the county site to scan again and then a different four state sites to scan and so forth. Let me think this idea through to see if it would actually work.

I did submit a request for Whistler to add back the multi-site STAT (stationary) feature on their TX series scanners with the check all CCs yes/no option.

Shawn
 
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ScannerSK

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I may have a solution in the Uniden BCD996P2 scanner. Quick keys are scanned in order from lowest to highest number so a person could set up 1 county site to scan and then four state sites to scan and then the county site to scan again and then a different four state sites to scan and so forth. Let me think this idea through to see if it would actually work....

Shawn
The above idea in a Uniden scanner will be too jimmy rigged. It would go something like as follows:

Quick Key 1 - Scans the county site
Quick Key 2 - Scans the first 5 of the 13 state sites
Quick Key 3 - Scans the conventional frequencies (system 1)
Quick Key 4 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 5 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 6 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 7 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 8 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)

Quick Key 21 - Scans the county site (same as in quick key 1)
Quick Key 22 - Scans the next 4 of the 13 state sites
Quick Key 23 - Scans the conventional channels (system 2)
Quick Key 24 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 25 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 26 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 27 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 28 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)

Quick Key 41 - Scans the county site (same as in quick key 1)
Quick Key 42 - Scans the last 4 of the 13 state sites
Quick Key 43 - Scans the conventional channels (system 3)
Quick Key 44 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 45 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 46 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 47 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)
Quick Key 48 - Scans another system not mentioned (if enabled)

The main issue I see with the above scenario in a Uniden scanner is that the same conventional system cannot be assigned to multiple quick keys to be scanned in each scan cycle so I would have to create a duplicate conventional system for each scan cycle. This poses multiple issues: 1.) Any changes made to one conventional system would have to be duplicated within each of the duplicate conventional systems being scanned and, 2.) the channel groups would have to be duplicated as well within each conventional system and the channel groups would have to be turned on/off in all these duplicate conventional systems.

That is what I call jimmy rigged however it is the only way I can think of to get a Uniden scanner to work anything like the PSR-500/600 in my scenario. The PSR-500/600 is so much easier with its ability to just scan a different control channel each scan cycle.

So far, it is either keep my PSR-500/600 and suffer from the interference it is so easily prone to around the Denver area or try the TRX-2 and hope a multi-site roam setting of 99/99 allows it to jump to the next control frequency stored in a single site every four or five scan cycles. I have a TRX-2 on order that should arrive this week and will advise if this works should anyone be interested.

Possibly Whistler will put out an update that adds the STAT multi-site option with the check all CCs yes/no option to the new TRX series of scanners (as exists in the PSR-500/600 type of scanners). I can hope for this update however most likely this will not happen so I continue in my attempt to find the best solution to my saga.

Shawn
 
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k1xd

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I ran into the same issue with the TRX2 and control channel selection. There is a fix. Setup a separate (duplicate) system for each control channel under it's own ScanList. Problem is that you then have to edit the duplicate talk groups in each instance of the system rather than doing it in a global fashion.

See my previous post (and thread ):
http://forums.radioreference.com/wh...re-talkgroups-large-system-2.html#post2722420

What say we get together and put in feature requests for the return of
STAT and associated options in the TRX2 (and TRX1)? Whistler seems very responsive to customer input!

Whistler feature request thread:
http://forums.radioreference.com/wh...ture-requests-suggestions-see-email-link.html

I sent in a feature request today!


Dave
k1xd
 
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ScannerSK

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I ran into the same issue with the TRX2 and control channel selection. There is a fix. Setup a separate (duplicate) system for each control channel under it's own ScanList. Problem is that you then have to edit the duplicate talk groups in each instance of the system rather than doing it in a global fashion.

See my previous post (and thread ):
http://forums.radioreference.com/wh...re-talkgroups-large-system-2.html#post2722420

What say we get together and put in feature requests for the return of
STAT and associated options in the TRX2 (and TRX1)? Whistler seems very responsive to customer input!

Whistler feature request thread:
http://forums.radioreference.com/wh...ture-requests-suggestions-see-email-link.html

I sent in a feature request today!


Dave
k1xd
Wonderful! I submitted a request as well for the multi-site STAT option including the Check All CCs yes/no option on March 8th. In another RR thread a person stated not having this option was a deal breaker for them.

I hope they add it as it would likely be an easy add as predecessor models had these options. It appears the programming software may be set up to add this option. When adding a site it includes a SubType which is always set to Auto and does not appear to be capable of being changed currently. Possibly this is where the option for STAT/no and STAT/yes would be located?

I'm thinking setting the multi-site settings to 99/99 may work as well by forcing the scanner to move on to a different control channel every four or five scan cycles. I'll have to try this out once the TRX-2 arrives.

The idea of duplicate systems does work however complicates things for sure when it comes to enabling/disabling the systems or updating frequencies. From the sounds of it, the PSR-500/600 type units were the only scanners with the capability of scanning a different control channel (in a list of control channels) with each scan cycle.

I'm waiting for the TRX-2 to arrive. I'll have to experiment with it once it arrives. Possibly it will work out for my requirements or maybe I will end up staying with the PSR-600 with its front-end interference related issues. I would pay Whistler $100 to fix the front-end of my PSR-600 at this point. :)

Shawn
 
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scover5555

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OK you could try this. In the 996 create a system for your county and put in all the talk groups. Add multiple sites but enter in the control channels for the county in each site(duplicate each site) but give each site a different quick key. QK1 would have county site 1, QK2 could be your state sites 1-5, QK3 would be county site 2(duplicate of 1), QK4 would be state sites 6-9 and so on. Now if you turn off or change anything in the groups of your county site it would carry over to QK1, QK3 and so on. Much easier than your jimmy rigging but accomplishes the same thing.
 

ScannerSK

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OK you could try this. In the 996 create a system for your county and put in all the talk groups. Add multiple sites but enter in the control channels for the county in each site(duplicate each site) but give each site a different quick key. QK1 would have county site 1, QK2 could be your state sites 1-5, QK3 would be county site 2(duplicate of 1), QK4 would be state sites 6-9 and so on. Now if you turn off or change anything in the groups of your county site it would carry over to QK1, QK3 and so on. Much easier than your jimmy rigging but accomplishes the same thing.
Hello,

I tried out this idea in my above post #13. The reason this will not work out well is that for all my conventional channels to be given equal scan time will now suddenly require duplicate conventional systems. This is where the jimmy rigging begins. Under the above idea, if I want to make any change to any conventional channel it will require me to make the same change in all the duplicate conventional systems as well; a lot of extra work. But even more cumbersome is that if I want to enable/disable any conventional group now I have to enable the same group in many duplicate conventional systems. So, the conventional channels have to be jimmy rigged in the above scenario. There just does not appear to be any way around this in a Uniden scanner. It is either jimmy rig it in one way or another or wait a disproportional amount of time each scan cycle for the state system to scan all required sites.

In the PSR-500/600, I do not have to create duplicate sites or duplicate systems and each system gets the same amount of attention each scan cycle and all the sites eventually get scanned which works out perfect. I just wish other scanners offered this feature or had some good work around.

Shawn
 
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cherubim

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Multisite STAT is a great feature for monitoring large trunking systems however it only seems to work effectively if one limits the number of control channels that one is monitoring. This applies to the "Check all CC on each pass" setting. I found that monitoring six control channels with Multisite STAT check all cc seems to work quite well from a base station. Any more control channels than this and traffic will be missed.

This is only my experience monitoring a large P25 TRS (multicast) with a PSR-600 and PSR-500.

As for Multistite STAT being dropped in the PSR-800 and newer Whistler scanners - I suspect this is due to the fact that Multisite STAT introduces more latency when monitoring a number of control channels. With 32 control channels it becomes unweildy.

I think the Whistler scanners now default to a type of Multisite-ROAM mode when monitoring control channels. I could be wrong about this.
 
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