The official "I want LSM to work properly in my scanner" thread

[KevinC]

We have never advertised nor have I ever claimed that any of our scanners could get a Close Call hit on the input side of a DMR or P25 transmission, where the transmit is discontinuous (referencing the text you quoted).

Haven't heard anyone use this term since my days in iDEN.

DTX=Discontinuous transmit

Carry on...

 

[Jimco]

Do you honestly think manufactures just delay things to irritate customers. I think a lot of people do not show Paul and Wendy the respect they deserve. Yet at the same time they try to push them harder and harder for a fix. If they had a fix, you'd have it.

I don’t have an issue with individuals, but I have a huge issue with Uniden as a company. They sell a unit that they know won’t work for many people, but they don’t say a word about it. I’m certain that they could solve this problem. They just don’t do it. They have more money and resources than the tiny Unication. At the very least, they should disclose the issue.


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[kb7gjy]

Unication unication unication.

Yes, they are a great pager for some. Here in the stick of the northwest, we have been begging for a dual band VHF/UHF pager from them. It falls on silent ears. Talk to our rep, says he has sent in the request more times then he can count. Nothing. I went to IWCE and talked to the Unication people at the booth. They said they have heard of the requests and have asked the powers that be for a VHF/UHF pager. "They have the boards, they have the knowledge, but they just won't do it" per the Unication Rep. So while they do great on LSM, they are leaving many of us left out to dry.

They are great pagers, don't get me wrong. It is just shocking they wont listen to the people that use their equipment in a professional environment.

/Rant off

 

[slicerwizard]

Called it...

When Paul finally loosens up and tells us how difficult something (like DMR decoding, for example) is, it means most of the bugs have been stomped on and the product release date has firmed up.

 

[WX4JCW]

Lol


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[Skypilot007]

I don’t have an issue with individuals, but I have a huge issue with Uniden as a company. They sell a unit that they know won’t work for many people, but they don’t say a word about it. I’m certain that they could solve this problem. They just don’t do it. They have more money and resources than the tiny Unication. At the very least, they should disclose the issue.


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The issue with all these new scanners that are advertised to work on Phase II LSM systems has already been exposed, but not by Uniden or Whistler. The scanner manufacturers refuse to implement proper I/Q DSP demodulation in their receiver designs and continue to take the cheap/lazy route with internal discriminator taps. This was exposed by consumers who purchased these scanners and dissected them to determine why there was such a problem with LSM reception.

Until the scanner manufactures step up to the plate and use the proper hardware in their receiver designs such as unication has done the problem will never go away and this thread will go on to infinity.

 

[jonwienke]

The issue with all these new scanners that are advertised to work on Phase II LSM systems has already been exposed, but not by Uniden or Whistler. The scanner manufacturers refuse to implement proper I/Q DSP demodulation in their receiver designs and continue to take the cheap/lazy route with internal discriminator taps.

You appear to have missed this:
https://www.uniden.com/newsroom/press-releases/sds100-coming-soon/

Uniden creates another first with the SDS100 True I/Q Scanner, the first scanner to incorporate Software Defined Radio technology to provide incredible digital performance in even the most challenging RF environments. The SDS100’s digital performance is better than any other scanner in both simulcast and weak-signal environments.

Upman has videos posted on his YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJrk0URkNo

 

[UPMan]

Also missed were multiple posts by me agreeing that LSM reception is challenging using existing scanners.

 

[bob550]

I don’t have an issue with individuals, but I have a huge issue with Uniden as a company. They sell a unit that they know won’t work for many people, but they don’t say a word about it. I’m certain that they could solve this problem. They just don’t do it. They have more money and resources than the tiny Unication. At the very least, they should disclose the issue.


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Are you saying that you would expect Uniden to highlight their products' drawbacks along with their features? If they did, they'd be the first company to do so outside of the pharmaceutical industry.

 

[WX4JCW]

This thread may be obsolete soon


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[MattSR]

This has to be one of the better threads on here. Nice to see UPMan join the conversation around LSM!

 

[kinglou0]

You appear to have missed this:
https://www.uniden.com/newsroom/press-releases/sds100-coming-soon/

Uniden creates another first with the SDS100 True I/Q Scanner, the first scanner to incorporate Software Defined Radio technology to provide incredible digital performance in even the most challenging RF environments. The SDS100’s digital performance is better than any other scanner in both simulcast and weak-signal environments.

Upman has videos posted on his YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJrk0URkNo

Yet, all of that doesn't really say anything about their implementation of SDR. It's all marketing smoke & mirrors. "SDR" is the latest of a long string of poorly understood buzzwords that gets your average guy to open his wallet. There are plenty of examples of really poor SDR receivers on the market that turned out to be real turds.

Notice how the copy mentions that the SDS100 will perform better than any other scanner? Well, no kidding. I'd hope it would perform better given the flexibility using SDR architecture allows if properly implemented.

I'd really like to see some specs and a block diagram but I'm sure we'll hear that Uniden needs to embargo the information for any number of reasons.

 

[WX4JCW]

IQ will definitely improve the LSM situation, he’s stated all other reception won’t see dramatic improvement


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[jonwienke]

IQ will definitely improve the LSM situation, he’s stated all other reception won’t see dramatic improvement

Not quite:
https://forums.radioreference.com/u...100-prerelease-discussion-14.html#post2902810

 

[WX4JCW]

"Strictly digital recovery. Analog performance is not expected to have dramatic improvements."
how is that not quite?

 

[jonwienke]

Improvement of non-simulcast digital reception, not just simulcast.

 

[WX4JCW]

Improvement of non-simulcast digital reception, not just simulcast.

Ok , but non simulcast isn’t really an issue in most areas


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[jonwienke]

If the SDS100 can decode digital from a weaker RF signal than the x36, and thereby extend the usable reception range of digital transmissions (e,g. being able to decode voice at <10% BER 15 miles away from a tower vs 10 miles away), that's a useful improvement, especially given that the x36 is better than average already.

 

[WX4JCW]

Ok that now makes sense and is what I thought


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[prc117f]

I caught that this was mostly tongue in cheek. Others might not. Not quite that drastic, but still substantial. Coupled with that is the challenge that some very basic radio things are done completely differently when using an I/Q type receiver (things like AGC, Squelch, FM and AM demodulation, and more). It would be a bigger technological change than the move from crystals to PLL, affecting many more functions and systems.

Not saying that it would never be done, but, it would be a very big undertaking.

Now Unication was able to do it somehow. They work great, the reason why we bought 6 G5s and not 6 Uniden 536HPs

You are pretty much going to SDR technology and that does require more software design people vs HW design people working on traditional superhet reciever design.