The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!
- Thread starter blantonl
- Start date
cpetraglia
Member
I have a question for Com501. If you took a CB radio and re-broadcast the PD in your area, you would be found and shut down with likely some legal problems. How is a feed any different? To all the feed providers: Do you get a thrill out of doing this? I cant figure it out. You have a scanner that obviously works for you. You spent good money on your system. Why add to the demise of this hobby? I will repeat a comment from a previous post.
Take down all the feeds. I for one used to love listening to the DC PD. A pure comedy show on a Friday night.
I would not give anyone the option to listen in on my system which I spent dollars and hours of fine tuning a P25 system.
Just wondering????
Chuck
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I think it's 50/50. Some do it for a thrill, because they likely have political sway or have political leverage and they mock us messily peasants in order to get the source encrypted. Some likely perform a service, as in rural areas this you're only chance for 911 services. Other civilians are also usually in a need to know arena. There are likely some other useful uses for providing a public scanner feed.
Personally, I would just rather invest in the hardware as well.
I (too) would not let anybody else listen in on my system, and would only distribute the feed within my house or on my own wired network, but have rarely (if ever) done so. There are usually laws (depending on State) concerning distributing the feeds.
Although I'm entirely against encryption, I wouldn't mind presenting my drivers license for access to the feeds if they were encrypted. However, I'm sure there's a lot of people who would be against this thought.
As I recently thought, this scanner stuff is similar to the political fight for the right to own or carry a gun. Anything a politician can get their hands on to make us messily servants suffer, they'll likely do what they can!
Personally, I would just rather invest in the hardware as well.
I (too) would not let anybody else listen in on my system, and would only distribute the feed within my house or on my own wired network, but have rarely (if ever) done so. There are usually laws (depending on State) concerning distributing the feeds.
Although I'm entirely against encryption, I wouldn't mind presenting my drivers license for access to the feeds if they were encrypted. However, I'm sure there's a lot of people who would be against this thought.
As I recently thought, this scanner stuff is similar to the political fight for the right to own or carry a gun. Anything a politician can get their hands on to make us messily servants suffer, they'll likely do what they can!
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mainetrunk
Member
My troop G which patrols rte 95 from NH line on up. ( not sure the boundary up north )
The Tg they are on, was encrypted til lately.
Now, troop G is using it in the clear,
and just today, 1 of those wonderful officers was using the encryption.
In a freaking snow storm, talking about crashes..
Gimme a break!
The only crash I ever heard of that might deserve encryption is a UFO crash.
Cripe--go back to analog!!
The Tg they are on, was encrypted til lately.
Now, troop G is using it in the clear,
and just today, 1 of those wonderful officers was using the encryption.
In a freaking snow storm, talking about crashes..
Gimme a break!
The only crash I ever heard of that might deserve encryption is a UFO crash.
Cripe--go back to analog!!
Do you honestly think the officer who is likely completely unaware they have toggled their encryption switch/button on/off, actually gives two craps about you and how you feel about the situation?
You sir, are THE reason why encryption exists. You just can't keep your annoying trap shut. You feel the need to comment on and post about every last detail you overhear on your radio. Same with the other members who post everything they hear to the regional forums within this website.
You are NOT entitled to monitor your local police/fire/ems/federal agency. It's a privilege -- one for which we are all slowly losing because of the behavior such as persons like yourself.
I personally go to the trouble of encrypting every single talkgroup/system I put on the air with AES-256, just to keep people like you from reposting the contents of communications on this website. I also take it a step further and ensure encrypted access-control mechanisms are enabled, so the people who feel the need to program unauthorized, cloned radios onto my system have no chance of ever using them to receive even the most mundane types of communications, such as a technician saying "test 1, 2 3" into the mic. You have no business monitoring what others are discussing.
25-years ago when 99.9999999% of systems were analog and in the clear, this steaming problem did not exist. Neither did a massive database with frequencies, talkgroups, connect tones, system IDs, etc. Why publish all of this? If a person wants it bad enough, they can find it themselves. RR administration's mentality is "but it's out in the open". Yes, it is. But there's no need to publish it to make it stupid-simple for mouth breathers to have instant access it. Let them learn a thing or two first, if they want it so badly.
ENCRYPT IT ALL!
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RayAir
Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
- Messages
- 1,938
As a privacy advocate I support the use of strong encryption to thwart snoops (big brother included).
I use it for radio, text, and for some cellular calls.
I did programming for a Hytera DMR system a couple months ago and set it up for AES 128 across the board.
Encryption plays an important role in all of our lives.
I use it for radio, text, and for some cellular calls.
I did programming for a Hytera DMR system a couple months ago and set it up for AES 128 across the board.
Encryption plays an important role in all of our lives.
The Internet did not exist, as such. It was much lower bandwidth, and mostly government and university usage. (I think Gopherspace was developed around that time.)
Trying to compare the online resources of 25 years ago to today is along the lines of comparing Blu Ray to U-Matic.
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I wasn't arguing the lack-of-Internet. My point is the "hobbyists" of today are incredible idiots, when it comes to knowing how to be low-profile and discrete with their hobby.
No one cared a few guys had POS Radio Shack scanners and monitored the police. Now we have mentally challenged individuals posting all of the system data online, putting up streams for other technically-challenged people and posting sensitive information in real-time to social media.
Of course the answer is encryption. And I'm all for it. It's unfortunate people just can't learn to shut their mouths' and control themselves from posting information online -- which by the way, serves no educational purpose. People do not learn by being spoon-fed or getting their scanners' programmed electronically over the Internet (of which the information is usually wrong/inaccurate/outdated in the first place).
The sound of silence will soon become commonplace for the majority of public-safety monitoring enthusiasts in North America. Here's a list (and growing) of agencies who have decided to encrypt because of unauthorized streams and people parroting what they hear on social media:
http://communications.support/threads/11884
Exactly. Tossing the baby out with the bath water probably isn't a good idea. That baby could possibly grow-up to be a decent law-abiding 25 year old.
However, I've yet to see a decent honest 25-year old except myself.
What's great about this, it's the only thing that keeps must of us awake on long boring shifts and it's duty related. Yank the stuff, and everybody falls asleep. Some great General's plan I guess. ;-)
However, I've yet to see a decent honest 25-year old except myself.
What's great about this, it's the only thing that keeps must of us awake on long boring shifts and it's duty related. Yank the stuff, and everybody falls asleep. Some great General's plan I guess. ;-)
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kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
Well put Mars. Exactly on point. This site seems to attract... Well... Search the usernames "ambulance2014" or "bloodtribeems"
More reasons to encrypt with the best available encryption. Along with robust authentication measures to keep unauthorized radios out.
More reasons to encrypt with the best available encryption. Along with robust authentication measures to keep unauthorized radios out.
So if we don't agree with you, we're wrong?
Some of what you have typed in other posting above doesn't make much sense by the way. You are hard to follow and understand. Please communicate more effectively.
tylerdurden119
Member
Time to get to work...
(My appologies for grammatical errors, etc. I only have access to my smartphone for the next few hours) Im looking for individuals to help me address the issue of streaming public safety over the internet. The fact that profits are being made from this may be our easiest way to address it. If you are solely concerned with public safety encryption and putting a stop to it - your probably not going to be satisfied with what we are working on, although it may help your cause. I have gone through all of these threads and I have seen some willing to work on this, yet no one has organized this. I have a few ideas and have contacted a peer who is an attorney in regards to the situation. If you want to help, PM me. If you want to criticize and complain, post it on here - I won't bother to read it. Thanks in advance to those who want to work this. I'll tell you more about myself and my professional experience in private.
(My appologies for grammatical errors, etc. I only have access to my smartphone for the next few hours) Im looking for individuals to help me address the issue of streaming public safety over the internet. The fact that profits are being made from this may be our easiest way to address it. If you are solely concerned with public safety encryption and putting a stop to it - your probably not going to be satisfied with what we are working on, although it may help your cause. I have gone through all of these threads and I have seen some willing to work on this, yet no one has organized this. I have a few ideas and have contacted a peer who is an attorney in regards to the situation. If you want to help, PM me. If you want to criticize and complain, post it on here - I won't bother to read it. Thanks in advance to those who want to work this. I'll tell you more about myself and my professional experience in private.
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The premise of listening to your local popo is not even comparable to the RIGHT of owning a weapon for self defense as guaranteed in the Constitution. This is a specious argument.
I had more information about my entire state's radio systems (California) available to me thirty years ago than what is available online via any current resource. We even published a nationally available reference directory but we carefully redacted the most sensitive information from it. The information is out there, but PRUDENT people do not blabber everything they hear on the interwebz. When they do, things get changed or encrypted.
Call to Action
The Virginia Fusion Center is a multi-disciplinary unit that was established after 9/11 by law enforcement agencies to increase awareness and information sharing between agencies about threats to public safety. Yesterday they issued a release about the lack of encryption being used by public safety agencies in northern Virginia. They posted a list of agencies whose police and fire transmissions are being broadcasted on Broadcastify and those who aren't. They stated in their release that agencies should consider switching all radio traffic to encrypted channels. So my point to posting this is not to re-start another debate about encryption. Suffice it to say that public safety continues to make arrests and perform their duties without across the board encryption. After 40 years in law enforcement the fact that a person can hear my radio traffic hasn't put me in danger. I find it hypocritical that the fusion center and others like minded people and organizations don't advocate for the disarmament of citizens because firearms actually kill law enforcement officers. A chief once said the reason he wanted encrypted radio's was because an officer made a traffic stop and heard radio traffic coming from the stopped car. Yet imagine the hue and cry if that same chief said we should disarm citizens because the officer made a traffic stop and the driver had a handgun in the car. If I follow the logic then the Fusion Centers and others should be against ordinary citizens possessing firearms!
So the call to action is this. When given an opportunity to interact with decision makers be they the Chief of Police, the Sheriff in county's where sheriff offices do law enforcement patrols and functions, mayors, or others, be proactive with regard to voicing your concern and support for law enforcement radio traffic to be left unencrypted for the good of the citizens that law enforcement serves. The ability of citizens to actually hear what law enforcement is doing on their behalf is always positive. Agencies can have encrypted channels for those situations that require them, but the day to day regular activity undertaken by officers in the community that they serve, that should always and forever be monitorable by the people. The reason that states universally have Freedom of Information Acts is so that the average citizen can get and at times even force the government to turn over information that at the end of the day any citizen has a right to obtain. The same thought process should be applied when it comes to law enforcement agencies encrypting all of their radio traffic. I will agree with those who state "there is no implied or constitutional right to listen to law enforcement radio traffic". However, law enforcement in this country is currently being scrutinized at a level unseen in my 40 years as a law enforcement officer. When agencies encrypt all of their radio traffic it just adds to the perception that something bad, or unethical or wrong is being committed by the very people who are entrusted to protect society. That is why I am encouraging everyone who reads this to write a letter to the editor for posting in your local newspaper, attend and speak to this issue at applicable meetings, and whatever you do, don't just sit back and say nothing as agency after agency makes the "march toward total encryption"! Because doing and saying nothing is not just an "end to a hobby", I submit it is a march toward an end to our democracy!
The Virginia Fusion Center is a multi-disciplinary unit that was established after 9/11 by law enforcement agencies to increase awareness and information sharing between agencies about threats to public safety. Yesterday they issued a release about the lack of encryption being used by public safety agencies in northern Virginia. They posted a list of agencies whose police and fire transmissions are being broadcasted on Broadcastify and those who aren't. They stated in their release that agencies should consider switching all radio traffic to encrypted channels. So my point to posting this is not to re-start another debate about encryption. Suffice it to say that public safety continues to make arrests and perform their duties without across the board encryption. After 40 years in law enforcement the fact that a person can hear my radio traffic hasn't put me in danger. I find it hypocritical that the fusion center and others like minded people and organizations don't advocate for the disarmament of citizens because firearms actually kill law enforcement officers. A chief once said the reason he wanted encrypted radio's was because an officer made a traffic stop and heard radio traffic coming from the stopped car. Yet imagine the hue and cry if that same chief said we should disarm citizens because the officer made a traffic stop and the driver had a handgun in the car. If I follow the logic then the Fusion Centers and others should be against ordinary citizens possessing firearms!
So the call to action is this. When given an opportunity to interact with decision makers be they the Chief of Police, the Sheriff in county's where sheriff offices do law enforcement patrols and functions, mayors, or others, be proactive with regard to voicing your concern and support for law enforcement radio traffic to be left unencrypted for the good of the citizens that law enforcement serves. The ability of citizens to actually hear what law enforcement is doing on their behalf is always positive. Agencies can have encrypted channels for those situations that require them, but the day to day regular activity undertaken by officers in the community that they serve, that should always and forever be monitorable by the people. The reason that states universally have Freedom of Information Acts is so that the average citizen can get and at times even force the government to turn over information that at the end of the day any citizen has a right to obtain. The same thought process should be applied when it comes to law enforcement agencies encrypting all of their radio traffic. I will agree with those who state "there is no implied or constitutional right to listen to law enforcement radio traffic". However, law enforcement in this country is currently being scrutinized at a level unseen in my 40 years as a law enforcement officer. When agencies encrypt all of their radio traffic it just adds to the perception that something bad, or unethical or wrong is being committed by the very people who are entrusted to protect society. That is why I am encouraging everyone who reads this to write a letter to the editor for posting in your local newspaper, attend and speak to this issue at applicable meetings, and whatever you do, don't just sit back and say nothing as agency after agency makes the "march toward total encryption"! Because doing and saying nothing is not just an "end to a hobby", I submit it is a march toward an end to our democracy!
cpetraglia
Member
I've been saying for two years that streaming was going to take down our hobby. I have been disciplined by RR for expressing myself a few years back. There was a thread a few weeks ago that was getting down and dirty complaining about Broadcastify. Imagine the owner of RR shutting down the thread. If someone could explain how streaming is helping anyone or furthering our cause, I will shut up.
I will be out thousands of dollars when my local system encrypts. I could care less about airplanes and trains or some other LE agency 30 miles from here.
PLEASE SHUT DOWN THE STREAMING AS ALL OF YOU ARE RUINING OUR HOBBY!
I will be out thousands of dollars when my local system encrypts. I could care less about airplanes and trains or some other LE agency 30 miles from here.
PLEASE SHUT DOWN THE STREAMING AS ALL OF YOU ARE RUINING OUR HOBBY!
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I'm really shocked that it appears no one has posted this news article yet....maybe they did in the Community Announcements forum, but it didn't clear moderation.
SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTING: Radio restrictions, armored vehicles discussed in terrorist attack hearing - Press Enterprise
SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTING: Radio restrictions, armored vehicles discussed in terrorist attack hearing - Press Enterprise
Why are you "shocked"? I don't get it.
People set up unauthorized streams on the Internet of law enforcement communications, and they demand privacy and encryption.
Seems quite logical to me. I hope more police follow the lead.
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