The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!

[kayn1n32008]

Google search....



Police departments encrypting radio traffic as scanner technology proliferates | Dallas Morning News

Will the Boston Bombings Kill the Public Police Scanner? | Mother Jones

The District's Police Scanners Go Quiet: DCist

Nothing but static | Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Should Your Organization Encrypt Its Radio Signals? | Today's Wireless World

Cops Encrypt Radio to Stop Cell Phone Eavesdropping | PCWorld

Antioch police turn off radio traffic to public - ContraCostaTimes.com



Miami Dade City Council meeting. 00:42:55

Public Safety and Animal Services Committee - May 14th, 2014

I am guessing this is just the tip of the iceberg...


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[hitechRadio]

Tip of the iceberg indeed!!!

There have been Chief conferences, with part of the subject matter being online streaming and encryption. Basic CHEAP! Even Free ADP would lock out the streaming, although not that secure. But still, would make it illegal to decrypt and stream.

Not every story of an agency going encrypted is deemed news worthy by the media.

I would venture a guess (actually no guess) that 90% of agencies that have went encrypted, streaming was discussed.

 

[MTS2000des]

You seem fixated with the term "profit." In fact, it seems to be your over arching theme throughout your rants. Do you not believe in capitalism?

Again, here you go making this all about me. It's a nice non-sequitur but as usual, you are dancing around the FACT that your streaming and assisting others with the mass divulging of public safety radio traffic is accelerating the rollout of encryption.

I didn't ask you to leave, and I didn't say you aren't welcome here. Everyone one of your technical support posts only serves to further line my pockets with more profits and mo' money. Keep up the good work.

Good, then write me a check. Seriously, my free technical support is to help those who need it. The fact that it provides you content is a side effect. I am a vetted member of other forums and my presence here is not all that vital to me. I do it because I want to.

Dude, you are a "communications coordinator" for a hospital group in the Atlanta area. I don't think there is a need for you to strap on the tactical gear and deploy an APX8000 on both hips and go on patrol protecting the "systems" that you maintain and manage. Come on man, you procure radios, and replace batteries.

It was a fun job for the past 7 years. I've moved on to something else. And those who actually know me know who I work for now. I'll say this, I am doing quite a bit more these days than handing out batteries there pal.

But whatever, again, your personal assumptions and attacks on me are just indicative of the childish mentality you have displayed before over the years. Some of us have grown up, moved on and matured. I see you still have yet to do that. Keep it coming, Lindsay, at least you're cheap entertainment is mildly amusing to many reading this.

You know Erik, there is this company, called Uniden, and they make scanners. You've heard of them, right? You know how a scanner works, correct? Well, here in San Antonio and Bexar County we can monitor every single solitary public safety agency just fine with a Uniden Scanner.

Here, give it a listen:

San Antonio Police Dispatch
San Antonio Fire and EMS
San Antonio and Windcrest Police, Bexar County Sheriff

Yeah, Uniden- still can't build a P25 receiver worth a flip. Still same old, same old tired discriminator tap crap from 2001. Have two of them. Both were free to me. Wouldn't pay a dime for one. I know they write you checks, but for how long once everything goes dark?

I wonder how Bexar county and San Antonio officially feel about all their traffic being re-broadcasted for profit. Anyone want to venture a guess or dare officially ask them?

 

[blantonl]

It was a fun job for the past 7 years. I've moved on to something else. And those who actually know me know who I work for now. I'll say this, I am doing quite a bit more these days than handing out batteries there pal.

My fault here - I had forgotten that you graduated to the big time and are now a radio systems technician for Fulton County 911.

But whatever, again, your personal assumptions and attacks on me are just indicative of the childish mentality you have displayed before over the years. Some of us have grown up, moved on and matured. I see you still have yet to do that. Keep it coming, Lindsay, at least you're cheap entertainment is mildly amusing to many reading this.

If this is entertaining to you, then great, I'll be here all day. If you want to continually come into my place of business and trash talk and bad mouth what we do, then expect to get smacked around a little.

But let's be clear here - you are a radio technician that probably spends most of your day dropping programming templates into radios. While that might be the holy grail position for someone here on the RadioReference forums, some of us are out here running multi-million dollar businesses (you know, the stuff you seem to have a problem with). You aren't a policy maker, you don't have the view into the industry and the public safety and public sector market like I do, yet you act like an authority on all subjects related to policy and procedure around here.

I have lots of radio shop technicians that are personal friends, and you know what - they are smart, humble folks who don't act like big swinging dicks lecturing me on how I should be running my business. So I'm going to call a spade a spade.

Yeah, Uniden- still can't build a P25 receiver worth a flip. Still same old, same old tired discriminator tap crap from 2001. Have two of them. Both were free to me. Wouldn't pay a dime for one. I know they write you checks, but for how long once everything goes dark?

uh.. what? Was this a demure from the original assertion that we in San Antonio can't monitor our local agencies, or is it a typical "I'm a big swinging dick because I carry an APX-7000 instead of those measly hobbyist radios you peons carry" ummm.. cool?

So, "pal", go load an AES-256 key into one of your radios if you want to boost your ego and feel important, but leave policy and industry stuff up to the leaders. I think we know what we're doing around here.

 

[MTS2000des]

If this is entertaining to you, then great, I'll be here all day. If you want to continually come into my place of business and trash talk and bad mouth what we do, then expect to get smacked around a little.

What you do is killing the hobby. You can paint it anyway you want, call names and act like a child. It only further reveals your immaturity and lack of professionalism.

You'd much rather spend time personally attacking me on your forum than actually running that "multi-million dollar business" you claim to operate. If you don't like me or what I say- do what we do on other more professional forums, ban a user and call it a day. I won't be butthurt about it and I would have greater respect for you as a man than to get on here and start taking shots and belittling me personally.

Your personal attacks on me speaks volumes about you and your "business" and lack of ethics. YOU ARE THE CEO of RADIO REFERENCE and BROADCASTIFY LLC. Prospective clients, advertisers and supporters, take note!

But let's be clear here - you are a radio technician that probably spends most of your day dropping programming templates into radios.

Another non-sequitur personal stab (which really isn't much of one), I actually like my career, thanks. It's called hard work and skill that pays off.
Astro 25 7.xx is a great platform. So is AES-256 encryption. I am glad to be able to be a spoke in the wheel.

your view of my workday proves you know very little about what I actually do. Not that it should matter, because the discussion is about how unauthorized third party streaming contributes to public safety agencies' decision to encrypt radio communications.

I'll say it again Mr. Blanton: your streaming of public safety radio traffic is caustic to the future of scanning. Let's revisit this thread in 5 years and see who is right and who is wrong on this.

some of us are out here running multi-million dollar businesses (you know, the stuff you seem to have a problem with).

so how do you plan to address the fact that at least some of this "multi-million dollar" business is eroding the very source of the content it provides? Oh never mind, you'll just hurl more personal attacks because I would not expect anything intelligent or on topic to come from you at this point. Always great to see a CEO of a "multi-million" dollar business spout off like a 12 year old child when asked legitimate questions about his business model.

but leave policy and industry stuff up to the leaders. I think we know what we're doing around here.

Yep, and what you're doing is fast tracking scanning into history of has-been technologies like VCRs and 8-track tapes.

One things for sure, the only "multi-million" dollar companies that will benefit from this in the future will be Motorola Solutions, Harris, JVCKenwood/EF Johnson, and Tait.

You aren't a policy maker, you don't have the view into the industry and the public safety and public sector market like I do,

What view is that Lindsay? What product have you developed that has done anything for the public safety industry exactly?

I have lots of radio shop technicians that are personal friends, and you know what - they are smart, humble folks who don't act like big swinging dicks lecturing me on how I should be running my business. So I'm going to call a spade a spade.

golly, gee, I guess I hit a nerve with you. So speaking of swinging dicks, when are you going to quit stepping on yours and admit that online streaming of public safety radio traffic is a key factor in many departments' decision to encrypt radio communications?

uh.. what? Was this a demure from the original assertion that we in San Antonio can't monitor our local agencies

Nope, simple question that is on topic, I would be curious to know if they approve or disapprove of your recording and re-broadcasting of their radio traffic.

It would be interesting to see you actually ask them that question and post the answer. That would be a viable discussion and something for you to wear as a badge of honor "officially sanctioned feeds".

but I know better, you'd much rather single me out and attack me than discuss the issue at hand.

You've done a swell job showing the world your childish, narrow mindedness and refusal to have an honest factual discussion.

Oh well, back to "dropping templates into radios".

Enjoy streaming other people's stuff while you still can. Meanwhile, let me go load another key into my APXs....Good day.

 

[krokus]

You seem fixated with the term "profit." In fact, it seems to be your over arching theme throughout your rants. Do you not believe in capitalism?

I think most of the users do not begrudge you the profit for setting up this community, as you put forth the effort.

The thing I have not seen, is a reasonable answer to why delays are not allowed on the feeds. Giving "Because that is the rules." as an answer is not giving an explanation.

Saying that the server resources would be taxed could be valid, except when the provider is willing to delay the audio, causing no additional overhead to the site. (Which could be made the norm.)

I believe that allowing a standardized delay, of at least five minutes, would appease agencies who are concerned about crooks using phone apps. (To be clear, that would allow for units to arrive on scene before the crooks could react to the dispatch.) That could preserve the resource that many of us enjoy.

Official feeds could be given the option of a "no delay" feed, in case they are counting on that feed to notify members of unfolding events.

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[hitechRadio]

After thinking about it, I think streaming is a good thing!

It can only help push agencies towards encryption. The more agencies that go encrypted the better, IMO.

 

[hitechRadio]

I think most of the users do not begrudge you the profit for setting up this community, as you put forth the effort.

The thing I have not seen, is a reasonable answer to why delays are not allowed on the feeds. Giving "Because that is the rules." as an answer is not giving an explanation.

Saying that the server resources would be taxed could be valid, except when the provider is willing to delay the audio, causing no additional overhead to the site. (Which could be made the norm.)


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I agree!
Because as you had mentioned delay would tax the servers, so....why not do it on the client/provider side. This would have no effect on the servers. But nope on that.


At this point IMO the damage has been done, not even a thirty minute delay would keep some agencies from going encrypted when they go digital.

And need it be repeated,,,,,,any encryption will shut the feed down! ADP is a standard feature of a lot of digital radio's on the market. Heck it may reach a point were you wont even be able to listen to a simple tow truck company.

 

[Citywide173]

Mr Ed, what makes your situation relevant to the topic of encryption? I've posted an example of a stream that was broadcasted and misused due to lack of descretion... a situation that won't be repeated once encryption is implemented.

At least one agency that was operating on scene had on duty members that were under the impression it was Tripathi when it started. Feed or no feed, people that were involved thought he was involved. It could have been leaked from any number of places. To blame it all on the scanner is bad journalism by the author.

 

[MTS2000des]

At this point IMO the damage has been done, not even a thirty minute delay would keep some agencies from going encrypted when they go digital.

And need it be repeated,,,,,,any encryption will shut the feed down! ADP is a standard feature of a lot of digital radio's on the market. Heck it may reach a point were you wont even be able to listen to a simple tow truck company.

Speaking as a hobbyist, I am saddened about that. Really. As a professional, I totally get it. (I know, I am not a CEO of a "multi-million dollar" corporation) But I do see enough concern around me and it is legitimate. This concern is based on the desire, responsibility and obligation to provide secure communication networks for their employees and to protect the public.

It is what it is. I cut my teeth on scanning public safety and ham radio back in 1982-1983 as a young kid. Spawned a lifelong love of radio. Led me to my current career. Radio is the foundation of everything we use today that is modern communications: cellular, broadcast, WiFi, all run on RF.

Time and technology marches on. Communications security is something the public gets a solid grasp on. Technology has evolved to make encryption robust, affordable and reliable, and compatible across vendors and networks.

 

[blantonl]

What you do is killing the hobby.

No it’s not.

You can paint it anyway you want, call names and act like a child. It only further reveals your immaturity and lack of professionalism.

Again, you are wrong. Professionalism and maturity has grown the business year over year, every year, since inception 17 years ago.

You'd much rather spend time personally attacking me on your forum than actually running that "multi-million dollar business" you claim to operate. If you don't like me or what I say- do what we do on other more professional forums, ban a user and call it a day. I won't be butthurt about it and I would have greater respect for you as a man than to get on here and start taking shots and belittling me personally.

I see no reason to ban you.

Your personal attacks on me speaks volumes about you and your "business" and lack of ethics. YOU ARE THE CEO of RADIO REFERENCE and BROADCASTIFY LLC. Prospective clients, advertisers and supporters, take note!

Take note folks! When you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

I actually like my career, thanks. It's called hard work and skill that pays off.

Thats great - I’m super proud of you Erik.

I'll say it again Mr. Blanton: your streaming of public safety radio traffic is caustic to the future of scanning.

No it’s not.

Let's revisit this thread in 5 years and see who is right and who is wrong on this.

Let’s do that.

so how do you plan to address the fact that at least some of this "multi-million dollar" business is eroding the very source of the content it provides?

There is nothing to address, because it’s not eroding the overall business. We’ve only grown stronger every year.

Oh never mind, you'll just hurl more personal attacks because I would not expect anything intelligent or on topic to come from you at this point. Always great to see a CEO of a "multi-million" dollar business spout off like a 12 year old child when asked legitimate questions about his business model.

nanny nah nah boo boo

Yep, and what you're doing is fast tracking scanning into history of has-been technologies like VCRs and 8-track tapes.

No we’re not.

What product have you developed that has done anything for the public safety industry exactly?

If you only knew…

So speaking of swinging dicks, when are you going to quit stepping on yours and admit that online streaming of public safety radio traffic is a key factor in many departments' decision to encrypt radio communications?

Citation needed.

 

[com501]

I KNEW it. Broadcastify is providing feeds for all those 911 PSAPS for their primary recording archives!

 

[Citywide173]

You seem fixated with the term "profit." In fact, it seems to be your over arching theme throughout your rants. Do you not believe in capitalism?

Although not the party being replied to, I must say that I do believe in capitalism. While I know that you disagree, I find the particular business model you employ to be the issue. It is analogous to a clothing manufacturer using child labor-the profits you are generating are coming from volunteers who see nothing more than a token benefit from you for their dedication, and in my opinion, that's just wrong.

While I do not deny you the right to make a profit, feed providers should have a remuneration formula based on longevity and feed popularity (not just the "if you get more than x amount of listeners at any given time") which would help to offset their costs. Just like you, they paid for the equipment, and foot an internet bill. While I'm sure some are happy with the arrangement, there has to be a line where it's obvious that you're taking advantage of others' good will. I think you crossed it some time ago, but that's just my opinion-and we know what those are like.

 

[Citywide173]

I KNEW it. Broadcastify is providing feeds for all those 911 PSAPS for their primary recording archives!

Actually, there is a company that is doing that, using Broadcastify. I'll see if I can find the thread.

EDIT:

Here it is: http://forums.radioreference.com/br...tion/285458-audio-feed-commercialization.html it appears that they aren't using Broadcastify, but I know I saw a similar service that did.

 

[SCPD]

Citation needed.

There is no way even you can deny the increasing number of articles which all say basically this:

“As I stated during the most recent Antioch Crime Prevention Commission meeting, I have made the decision to encrypt most of the channels assigned to Antioch Police, including the primary and secondary channels,” said Cantando. “This is a trend that has been taking place for several years in policing throughout the nation. This was not something I took lightly, and there are several factors that played a role in my decision.”

Catando stated first and foremost, officer safety was the priority.

“The number one reason was officer safety. With growing technology, criminals are now able to monitor our movements better than before. Smart phone scanner apps have enabled anyone, anywhere, to listen in on police communications. This includes those who are about to, who are in the act of, or who just committed a crime,” explained Cantando. “These criminals use this technology to determine when to commit a crime, learn the locations and activities of responding officers, gather intelligence, etc. By encrypting our channels, criminals will no longer be able to listen in on police radio transmissions, which means we’re eliminating a significant risk to officer safety.”

Police Radio to go Silent as Antioch Cops Move Toward Encrypted Communications | East County Today

There are many, many more just like it. It's undeniable.

Or are you saying you know better than Chief Catando, Mr. Blanton?

 

[blantonl]

Although not the party being replied to, I must say that I do believe in capitalism. While I know that you disagree, I find the particular business model you employ to be the issue. It is analogous to a clothing manufacturer using child labor-the profits you are generating are coming from volunteers who see nothing more than a token benefit from you for their dedication, and in my opinion, that's just wrong.

Terrible analogy to equate volunteer broadcasters who make a conscious decision to provide their resources to our platform to child labor. Seriously?

I'm not twisting anyone's arm to provide a feed. I simply provide the platform for them to do so.

By the way, we reached a new record two days ago for the number feeds online - 5,738 feeds. We're doing something right.

Additionally, we continue to see record traffic and participation here on RadioReference.com.

I probably know more about the scanner industry than anyone else - I'm intimately plugged in with every manufacturer, dealer, and any other player in this business. The vast majority of all the information that I know is either under NDA, or is proprietary information that I just cannot divulge. But I can assure you that things are fine in this business, and broadcastify hasn't made any measurable impact on this hobby other than positive.

Or are you saying you know better than Chief Catando, Mr. Blanton?

It's easy for you armchair quarterbacks to sit back and just proclaim that we're killing the hobby because you read some police chief mention us as a decision to encrypt. Well, guess what folks, police chiefs have been doing that for 50 years, first it was an AM radio that could hear them, then it was a scanner, then a programmable scanner, then a scanner that could receive 800 MHz, then a trunktracker, then P25, then broadcastify. Same old worn out arguments that they can be heard.

I occasionally hear from senior leadership in agencies that don't like what we are doing. I occasionally hear from senior leadership in agencies that love what we are doing.

Go ahead and cherry pick what you want - I can do the same. But also know that I know a lot more than many of you on what is happening in this industry. This industry butters my bread, puts food on the table for my wife and children, so I guarantee you I'm not involved in any conspiracy or process to "kill the golden goose."

As outside observers into the inner-workings of this business, you simply can't armchair quarterback what we're doing here. If you do, you're just going to be factually wrong.

 

[SCPD]

First it was an AM radio that could hear them, then it was a scanner, then a programmable scanner, then a scanner that could receive 800 MHz, then a trunktracker, then P25, then broadcastify..

...and finally, AES. That's where that history lesson ends.

Ø

 

[Citywide173]

I'm not twisting anyone's arm to provide a feed. I simply provide the platform for them to do so.

I'm sure if many of those volunteers saw the disparity between what you make from the feeds and what they get, those record numbers would drop. There is a very palpable apathy in the above response. If, and I admit that it is a VERY big if, a feed is ever tied to an injury to an officer, it is very obvious that this will be your response, and the feed provider will be on their own.

 

[blantonl]

I'm sure if many of those volunteers saw the disparity between what you make from the feeds and what they get, those record numbers would drop. There is a very palpable apathy in the above response. If, and I admit that it is a VERY big if, a feed is ever tied to an injury to an officer, it is very obvious that this will be your response, and the feed provider will be on their own.

That's like arguing that if Facebook users saw the disparity between what Facebook earns in revenue on their participation on their platform vs what they get in return ($0), they would suddenly abandon Facebook because "OMG!! they are making too much money off my posts!!" ..and their financials are publically available for all to see.

Sorry Ed, but you are way off base. This is again typical arm-chair quarterbacking a business.

 

[kayn1n32008]

The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPT...

Additionally, we continue to see record traffic and participation here on RadioReference.com.

Yes yes you do. I am one of those that participates here too.

Sadly a lot of the traffic is the "me me me me" crowd whining that a feed does not carry what they want, or carries stuff they don't want to hear, or demands a provider have 100% up time, or that to 'fix' the feed, in a demanding childish way. The other end of that spectrum is those that refuse to do the slightest bit of research and even make a feeble attempt to find info that is at their finger tip. Or even better is the newest user, that can't even answer simple questions, because scanners have been so dumbed down they can't even give more than 'I want to listen too XYZ-P25 system. Not even tell you what band it operates on.

But I can assure you that things are fine in this business, and broadcastify hasn't made any measurable impact on this hobby other than positive.

You are delusional. Tell that to Cst. Styles family. YOUR company made it possible to have his dying words spread all over the media, regardless that the media made the decision to actually air it, it was ONLY possible because of YOUR live streaming services and its archive. Only Positive? I think not. Now, the P25/phase 2 system police and fire moved to, a quick count shows 61 identified talkgroups. Only 6 show to be unencrypted. 90.2% of the identified talkgroups are encrypted. Coincidence? I doubt it. Likely the York region did not like thier comms streamed and effectively put an end to the stream that was the DIRECT CAUSE of Cst Styles dying words to be heard all over the media.

It's easy for you armchair quarterbacks to sit back and just proclaim that we're killing the hobby because you read some police chief mention us as a decision to encrypt.

Are you blind? We are not talking about one or two departments citing YOUR company BY NAME as the reason to encrypt. We are talking about DOZENS of agencies without even employing Google-fu.

Well, guess what folks, police chiefs have been doing that for 50 years, first it was an AM radio that could hear them, then it was a scanner, then a programmable scanner, then a scanner that could receive 800 MHz, then a trunktracker, then P25, then broadcastify.

All those listed were technology changes. NOT encryption to keep people from listening.

Same old worn out arguments that they can be heard.

No, not the same at all.

This industry butters my bread, puts food on the table for my wife and children, so I guarantee you I'm not involved in any conspiracy or process to "kill the golden goose."

You are a funny guy. Broadcastify is driving public safety to encryption at a faster rate than if Broadcastify was not there.

As outside observers

blah blah blah

If you do, you're...

going to see that we are actually not living with our heads in the sand.



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