The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!

[Citywide173]

That's a great tin foil hat conspiracy theory, but baseless and without fact. Cite a specific example where encrypted government radios system were used to facilitate the commission of a crime by those authorized users. Waiting...

I had overlooked this one. While there are the isolated occurrences where scanners have been used in the commission of a crime (a fraction of a percent when compared to the number of scanners sold,) please provide any department statistics that show an appreciable decline in crime or an appreciable increase in officer safety (injuries,) which are the largest reasons given by departments for going encrypted, after throwing the encryption switch. Unlike the needle in the haystack you described above, crime stats and officer injury rates are publicly available. I'll give you a hint, both have stayed consistent with the national average.

For the record, the only police I listen to from a hobby basis are the ones in the city I live in, the Massachusetts State Police and Rhode Island State Police. I don't have a big stake in the PD argument, but if the police departments start doing it, the fire departments, which I do follow closely, probably won't be far behind. When I'm in work, however, I actively monitor the police districts I'm working in, and I know they would not allow other radios to have the key if they were to encrypt, which I feel would put me at risk. I've been on more than one call where the police dispatch supervisor has told the EMS dispatch supervisor that a scene is safe, where the radio traffic clearly indicated otherwise and that has kept me from entering active shooting scenes. While I respect your desire to keep officers safe, you apparently are shortsighted to the safety and need to know of other public safety officials.

 

[MTS2000des]

While I respect your desire to keep officers safe, you apparently are shortsighted to the safety and need to know of other public safety officials.

How so? You assume that agencies don't share encryption and system keys. The bottom line is in many places this is true, but this is also changing. I hear you re: fire communications. However, thanks to recent incidents where firefighters have become the target, they too have a right to secure communications to complete their tasks.

There is no easy answer, but one thing remains on the of many of my fellow "radio template droppers" is the security of our systems, and the widespread ability of third parties who are recording and divulging what they hear on our systems. While most of it may be benign, the one or times it is misused can be too many. Our bosses and citizens demand that we create a safe work environment for the users, they also are reminded how open the air is everytime someone chooses to play clips recorded off scanners and that does not sit well with those who make decisions, nor elected officials. One can spend all day speaking of conspiracy theories of shadow governments, unfounded corruption accusations, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to giving public safety reliable and secure voice communications networks.

Encryption is here. It's available. It's cheap (ADP/RC4), it doesn't degrade voice quality like it did in the old days,

I'd love for it to be the 1980s again, but it isn't the same way I miss going down to my local Tower Records to buy a new LP.

"All Things Must Pass"- George Harrison

It is what it is.

 

[SCPD]

I had overlooked this one. While there are the isolated occurrences where scanners have been used in the commission of a crime (a fraction of a percent when compared to the number of scanners sold,) please provide any department statistics that show an appreciable decline in crime or an appreciable increase in officer safety (injuries,) which are the largest reasons given by departments for going encrypted, after throwing the encryption switch. Unlike the needle in the haystack you described above, crime stats and officer injury rates are publicly available. I'll give you a hint, both have stayed consistent with the national average.

Here's what's really cool about this whole discussion... A department doesn't have to look at national statistics. A department doesn't care what scanner-land thinks. All they need to do is decide that turning off the bottom-feeder streaming scanner apps makes good sense for their department.

You can post up all the statistical "evidence" you like, but when Chief PoPo figures out that his radio traffic streaming on cell phones is a bad idea, he will simply shut that nonsense down and there is nothing anyone can say or do about it.

Anyone with half a brain knows that online streaming is a factor in the decision to encrypt. Anyone who says otherwise is stupid or delusional. End of story.

 

[JoeyC]

I've been on more than one call where the police dispatch supervisor has told the EMS dispatch supervisor that a scene is safe, where the radio traffic clearly indicated otherwise and that has kept me from entering active shooting scenes. While I respect your desire to keep officers safe, you apparently are shortsighted to the safety and need to know of other public safety officials.

Sounds like your departments have internal communications issues far beyond the reaches encryption can satisfy. I'd be much more concerned with that, than the inability to hear the cops on their radios, which is something that most EMS and fire personnel do not routinely monitor in the first place.

 

[blantonl]

It's difficult enough getting users to change talkgroups for a planned system upgrade. Adding more workload to already taxed dispatchers just so it makes it easier for someone to tune it with a scanner or for streamers to blabber what they hear on anti-social media somehow doesn't make sense to me.

But what do I know. According to the so-called industry expert here, all I do is "drop templates into radios all day"...

Come on dude, get back to work . It was a busy weekend in Atlanta - you've got 14 portables waiting for you in your cubicle that need new batteries. And there is an alarm down at one of the sites that needs you to show up on site and reset it. Better get all that done before your lunch meeting with the local Motorola sales reps who want to show you some of the new features of the APX-8000.

 

[com501]

Come on dude, get back to work . It was a busy weekend in Atlanta - you've got 14 portables waiting for you in your cubicle that need new batteries. And there is an alarm down at one of the sites that needs you to show up on site and reset it. Better get all that done before your lunch meeting with the local Motorola sales reps who want to show you some of the new features of the APX-8000.

Wow, just wow. You learn that in 'CEO School'? Embarrassing.

Another county in my state goes AES256, thanks to streaming.:roll:

 

[jmfirefighter]

Come on dude, get back to work . It was a busy weekend in Atlanta - you've got 14 portables waiting for you in your cubicle that need new batteries. And there is an alarm down at one of the sites that needs you to show up on site and reset it. Better get all that done before your lunch meeting with the local Motorola sales reps who want to show you some of the new features of the APX-8000.

Wow.....

Very professional coming from a CEO. As a system administrator, WHY would I want to do anything with you for an official stream of my system if this is how you treat people and act?

Being the system administrator and chief engineer of a large public safety dispatch system, I can attest to the fact the dispatch is BUSY. Asking them to hit one more button, when there are already five computer screens, multiple applications, people calling on the phones and radios, etc going on it's almost impossible. Do we need more staffing? Yes, we do, and yes, that is a "system problem." However, being a publicly funded system with a majority of conservatives as our tax base, increasing our budget is a fight despite the needs.

I absolutely detest the scanner apps and facebook whacker pages that are prevalent these days. We had a LOD with an officer and lo and behold, because we are not encrypted, scanner land heard the calls for assistance and that the specific officer was down....we use numbered call signs, and everyone knows who is who out there, it's not hard to decipher....and it popped up on Facebook and through all these scanner feeds almost instantly. The rash of crap that the posters got from the public safety community was the only reason the posts got taken down. Thankfully some people still have common sense. News media got a hold on the info before it was removed, and rebroadcasted the officer's name well before the family was notified. What a shame.

I am pushing HARD for the encryption of our law channels. The time has come to secure our system. We have a roving band of thugs with scanner apps on their phones that are using it to their advantage to commit B&E on homes, businesses, and parked vehicles. This is happening now. Because we don't have the infrastructure encrypt, we're at the mercy of these thugs. They know where the officers are. They know what towns are "one or two cop towns" at night based on the sign on and off periods. They can create a diversion, hear everyone responding to the fake call, and do what they want. Cell phones aren't a reliable option. They've figured out the code words (how hard it is to figure out when someone says "the coffee's on" right after you trip an alarm that it was the code word and the PD's on to you, really??). Spectrum is clogged, so another channel isn't an option, not that it wouldn't be streamed anyways as soon as we turn it up. Yes, they could go buy a P25 scanner for a couple hundred bucks, but they probably won't.....and why would they with cheap scanner apps and free feeds available so easily?

I would flip the switch today if I had the option to. There are LE interop channels that can be used if we need to talk to someone else, not that I wouldn't share my keys with all my surrounding agencies. Live streaming with no delay has made us system admins and engineers/technicians VERY uncomfortable. You won't take action and work with us to provide reasonable delays for safety and security unless we provide you an official feed, which we won't do. So what option does that leave us?

Yes, I understand you have a business to run, and that it's a successful business. Congratulations and I have no ill will toward you. However, you need to understand that I (and some of the others on here) have a public safety radio system to run, manage, and maintain that provides communications for a 1000 personnel and hundreds of thousands of members of the public. I need to make sure that my people are protected to the best of my ability and the privacy of the citizens we deal with are protected as well. Does the public have a right to know what's going on? Absolutely. We provide activity reports regularly to the press, social media, etc. They can always call or come in with a question. Do they need to know what's going on the minute it happens? I don't think it's such a good idea......if something is going on that can cause a public panic, that will probably only exacerbate the situation. Time to shut it down, and I hope my fellow system admins and engineers/technicians feel the same way, which I'm sure they do.

 

[Pezking]

I'm sure you would be angry and react the same way as LCBIII if you seen the writing on the wall that your cash cow was slowly dying.

LCBIII single handedly killed the scanning hobby by making it about profit and giving criminals access to something that required a brain before he came along.

 

[com501]

Four years, first post, succinct and to the point. Bravo.

 

[blantonl]

Wow.....

Very professional coming from a CEO. As a system administrator, WHY would I want to do anything with you for an official stream of my system if this is how you treat people and act?

:roll::roll:

It's the rants forum - the only people poking around here are those with axes to grind. In this business, I'm extremely well known as a professional, level-headed leader who knows how to manage and operate a successful business. I think some of you believe that I should be groveling at your feet when you venture in here to tell me how to run my business.

I'm not coming into the rants forum with a suit and tie on to kiss customer's butts. I'm here to thoroughly and completely debunk the assertions that are repeatability put forth by the same old people using the same old worn out arguments.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I'm not coming into the rants forum with a suit and tie on to kiss customer's butts.

No but you could try and act like an adult, not some little snot nosed kid.

I'm here to thoroughly and completely debunk the assertions that are repeatability put forth by the same old people using the same old worn out arguments.

Good luck with that... Most of us are not buying it.

The reality is very different that what you want to lead people to believe.

 

[blantonl]

No but you could try and act like an adult, not some little snot nosed kid.

Thanks for the behavior pointers... I'll do my best. You should drive down to Whitefish sometime this summer and have a beer with me - you might find I'm actually a pretty reasonable guy once you get past the "snot nosed kid" perception that you have.

Good luck with that... Most of us are not buying it.

The reality is very different that what you want to lead people to believe.

Suit yourself, however I'm on the end where I know the industry and financial facts - then theres you armchair quarterbacks who cherry pick little antidotes and use that to translate some belief that you have into factual assertions. Same old stuff we've heard since 2009 when ScanAmerica and Broadcastify first came into existence. By the way, that was 7 years ago.

Meanwhile, yesterday at 6:45pm we had FIVE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN live audio feeds online and broadcasting - a new record. That's quite a few thousand people that don't share your beliefs.

 

[JoeyC]

:roll::roll:

It's the rants forum...

Its the rants section because you have decided thats the only place the subject matter is allowed. :roll::roll:

In this business, I'm extremely well known as a professional, level-headed leader who knows how to manage and operate a successful business.

In this business? Radio streaming and frequency database management? Yeah there's a lot of competition there...

I'm here to thoroughly and completely debunk the assertions that are repeatability put forth by the same old people using the same old worn out arguments.

The truth hurts.

 

[SCPD]

I absolutely detest the scanner apps and facebook whacker pages that are prevalent these days. News media got a hold on the info before it was removed, and rebroadcasted the officer's name well before the family was notified. What a shame.

I am pushing HARD for the encryption of our law channels. The time has come to secure our system.

These scanner feed people are clueless as to the damage they are causing, and when combined with the mess called social media, I expect that most system administrators feel very much the same. They would likely instantly encrypt if they could. But you (and I and the non brain washed) know it is coming.

Meanwhile, yesterday at 6:45pm we had FIVE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN live audio feeds online and broadcasting - a new record. That's quite a few thousand people that don't share your beliefs.

That proves nothing other than you have a band of disciples that are destroying this hobby. After almost 40 years, this summer I am hanging up my scanner hat and moving on. Why .. cause virtually anything related to public services in Canada is going to be encrypted. There is nothing left .. when EMS services are even encrypting you know it is bad.

When a police officers dying words are on the national news due to one of your Broadcastify streams .. that is the time when it has gone too far. So thanks Lindsay for destroying the hobby we all love. Your self fulfilling fantasy and your facts impress no one .. we see the results.

I expect in the next 2 years there will not be a single law enforcement agency in any major city in Canada that is not encrypted.

 

[balibago]

TOR

Is it possible that that freeware utility to crack Motorola's and EF Johnsons ADP encryption will be available on the deep net soon?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Is it possible that that freeware utility to crack Motorola's and EF Johnsons ADP encryption will be available on the deep net soon?

Lol

That will speed to move to real encryption... cause some idiot will either stream an ADP encrypted system, or blabber about it on RR.

 

[balibago]

TOR

I doubt it most of these local gov'ts are really cash strapped. LOL

 

[jmfirefighter]

:roll::roll:

It's the rants forum - the only people poking around here are those with axes to grind. In this business, I'm extremely well known as a professional, level-headed leader who knows how to manage and operate a successful business. I think some of you believe that I should be groveling at your feet when you venture in here to tell me how to run my business.

I'm not coming into the rants forum with a suit and tie on to kiss customer's butts. I'm here to thoroughly and completely debunk the assertions that are repeatability put forth by the same old people using the same old worn out arguments.

It may be a so-called "rants" forum, however, your comments are still taken from the CEO of a company, regardless of the context they are placed in. Your comments are public, and view able by anyone on here. I for one, if I didn't know any better and ran into this thread, wouldn't think you were very professional, regardless if it's a "rants" forum or "kiss a customers butt" forum.

Think before you type.....everyone's on the internet, and your words can bite you in the behind someday.

 

[blantonl]

It may be a so-called "rants" forum, however, your comments are still taken from the CEO of a company, regardless of the context they are placed in. Your comments are public, and view able by anyone on here. I for one, if I didn't know any better and ran into this thread, wouldn't think you were very professional, regardless if it's a "rants" forum or "kiss a customers butt" forum.

I'm really not worried about what you think of my actions in the "rants" forum. Frankly, there are very few platforms in the country where the owner of the company chimes in to discuss and banter directly with detractors.

Think before you type.....everyone's on the internet, and your words can bite you in the behind someday.

Sounds like something I would tell my daughter. However, in this case I am well aware of what I am posting.

 

[SCPD]

When a police officers dying words are on the national news due to one of your Broadcastify streams .. that is the time when it has gone too far.

Don't worry. When tragedy befalls LCB3's family or loved ones, the first thing LCB3 will do is come to his forum and post links to the audio of their final cries for help.

You know... as a public service.