Hear Hear ....
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!
- Thread starter blantonl
- Start date
Hear Hear ....
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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zz0468 said:
That is a childish statement. It also assumes that people were begging your sympathy to begin with.
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams
zz0468 said:
I assume that you haven't firsthand knowledge or examined credible evidence of government corruption. If you had, I would hope that you would realize just how crooked government agencies can be and how fragile individual freedom is under a government.
12dbsinad
Member
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In my area, practically nobody has enc dispatch channels. Having them in the clear helps the LEO's and the general public more than trying to hide everything. You know the daily (rural areas) "police log" that was (or maybe still is in some areas) printed in the newspaper? That BOLO of a drunk idiot just got called in by a scanner listener on the whereabouts, leading to his/her apprehension, before he/she crashed head on into your loved one(s).
Day to day clear comms helps both LE AND the public more than it harms.
Day to day clear comms helps both LE AND the public more than it harms.
jparks29
John McClane
I used to live in a fairly rural area where almost every car had a scanner. Not kidding when I say maybe 5 deputies on duty, FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY....It was common place to hear 'Unit 123, citizen is behind the stolen vehicle we just called out, currently on rt. 239 heading south, passing mayberry rd. '
You could still talk to them on CB too, lol.
They switched to a P1 system, which at the time, required a $600 scanner... which few could afford.... and the help from citizens all but disappeared. Deputies were outright complaining that they had no citizen help anymore...
You could still talk to them on CB too, lol.
They switched to a P1 system, which at the time, required a $600 scanner... which few could afford.... and the help from citizens all but disappeared. Deputies were outright complaining that they had no citizen help anymore...
My question is why did a county with 5 deputies need a Phase 1 trunking system? A better question is why did taxpayers allow such a system to be purchased?
Our system is completely encrypted, end to end. We have no problem communicating with other agencies, even if they use encryption or not.
Good questions.
I spent the better part of 22 years in a county that usually had 1 sheriff's road patrol at night; every now and then 2. They had the fancy digital system. It rarely seemed to work right so we almost always heard them on the analog VHF system still in daily use. By accident, I met the man responsible for the county digital system. He was an arrogant moron. Seriously, I think he was right on the cusp of being legally deemed differently-abled.
jparks29
John McClane
Peer pressure... Looking cool.. Went from VHF analog which covered 99% of the county on portable to an 800 sys with more dead spots than a cemetery. I'm guessing /\/\ lied to them about narrowband requirements/cost. As usual with /\/\ systems, towers had to be added later to fill substantial gaps in the system footprint.
You know you effed up when a 35w mobile with a 3dbi antenna can't communicate, but a 5W portable on the hip, with a dummy load for an antenna, with -20db in losses between the antenna, body, etc could hit it without issue.
And... the public?
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WOW!!! ok... well it seems like we opened up a huge can of worms here..
but it's better to let it out than keep it in.. but i thank all of you folks here because you all certainly are a wealth of great information and education i have been around "Radios" two way and otherwise since
i was 9 years old and although i learn a great deal about old and new equipment and coming of age so to speak equipment it never seems to get old in any way... i believe in securing your radios if your a private company (ie) business to keep you and your employees and your property safe.. but i am not convinced that "ALL" public safety radios should be secured. certain " Groups" we will call them should be i mean personnel safety is a huge deal, but not every single thing needs to deserves to be that is just asking for issues, because regardless of your or the encryption there will always be someone or even a group that will crack it, hell, if they can hack satellite TV encryption, stuff on the ground is like a play thing and all it really does is add $$$$$$ to the taxpayers bill..
just my opinion i hate not being able to hear about things that could effect my family, my neighbors, and my community..
Tony P.
but it's better to let it out than keep it in.. but i thank all of you folks here because you all certainly are a wealth of great information and education i have been around "Radios" two way and otherwise since
i was 9 years old and although i learn a great deal about old and new equipment and coming of age so to speak equipment it never seems to get old in any way... i believe in securing your radios if your a private company (ie) business to keep you and your employees and your property safe.. but i am not convinced that "ALL" public safety radios should be secured. certain " Groups" we will call them should be i mean personnel safety is a huge deal, but not every single thing needs to deserves to be that is just asking for issues, because regardless of your or the encryption there will always be someone or even a group that will crack it, hell, if they can hack satellite TV encryption, stuff on the ground is like a play thing and all it really does is add $$$$$$ to the taxpayers bill..
just my opinion i hate not being able to hear about things that could effect my family, my neighbors, and my community..
Tony P.
Huh?
There is no comparison to the Sat TV hacking that was done in the 80s and 90s, vs. current encryption done on P25 systems today. Unless an easily exploitable flaw is found, current encryption schemes will not be hackable at a hobbyist level.
The view that it merely adds to the taxpayers bill completely neglects the benefits it brings to the user agencies that feels they need it.
Everybody has their own opinion... but i appreciate everyone's input and ideas NOTHING is completely secure and yes anything is able to be cracked there are many many brilliant " hobbyist out there. do not sell them short.. . i know what i know and i will stand by it! the agencies involved are not footing the bill right? .and just an FYI. Satellite TV hacking "Dish network, Direct TV .Etc was going on well into 2008, i know of several folks that were involved... Enough said.
It's not assuming any such thing. It's simply internal feeling about the subject that I no longer hold.
You assume wrong.
I've actively participated in shutting down and assisted with the prosecution of several cases of corruption over the years. But I have also noted that government workers generally take their employment seriously and conscientiously try to give the taxpayers their money's worth. The radio between good and bad is probably 1000:1.
Unfortunately, that leaves a large raw number of bad ones, which gain all the attention.
It happens, but it's not limited to government. The driving mechanisms for corporate greed are no different than the driving mechanisms for government corruption.
I would submit that the real problem is human nature, not government. That makes the problem even more insidious than you think it is.
I've seen more rights trampled by right-wing conservative voters than any US government agency.
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
Do some research on hybrid algorithm and what is actually needed to brute force AES256. The key space is sufficient that it is resistant to all current known attacks to it. No ‘hobbiest’, now or in the near/far future is going to compromise/break it. The algorithm was peer reviewed by some of the best in the business before it was released.
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Sat systems are stll open, but the people doing it have gone far underground. Big Brother has put the kabosh on anyone not very discrete.
But never say never, as computers become more powerful, your assumption that AES is unbreakable perhaps will change.
But never say never, as computers become more powerful, your assumption that AES is unbreakable perhaps will change.
When the number if possible key combinations needing to be tried requires more time than the universe is old, I won't be holding MY breath. But suit yourself.
Not it saying never, but I am saying it's unlikely.
And if it does get cracked, it will get replaced with something that much more secure.
But we are not talking about corporate entities. We are discussing government entities. These are apples and oranges.
Government is comprised of humans. We agree that human nature is the problem. However, that does not change the statements. Governments are dangerous to individual liberty because of people or simply because they are governments. The point is that they are dangerous. You are splitting hairs but it doesn't change the fact that government is dangerous.
Why bring politics into it? The ultimate tool, voting or not, is government. The voters aren't taking to the streets violating rights; they are using government to do it! You already know that my philosophy is anarcho-capitalist, therefore, I am neither right nor left. Right leaning governments are dangerous; Nazi Germany for one example. Left leaning governments are dangerous; Khmer Rouge for one example. I'm not going to get into the weeds of politics in relation to encryption because going there is a smokescreen for an untenable position. Bottom line, all governments are dangerous to individual liberty. All governments grow in power. All governments become more dangerous over time. By keeping a tight leash on government, people have an opportunity to slow the growth of government, thereby slowing the increased danger inherent in government. It is absolutely NOT a right/left issue. By encrypting communications, government entities break one more shackle that its master (people governed) have over their slave (government). The political leanings of the voters, left or right, matters not.
I'm just trying to point out that, as terrified of government as you are, you should be equally as terrified of corporations and your fellow citizens.
Sweet dreams. =)
I won't be following up on this particular topic deviation in this thread, you can make the last comment.
Just because someone has knowledge that fire can be dangerous, doesn't necessarily mean that they are "terrified" of it.
History proves my point; governments are dangerous and must be vigilantly watched by the people governed. Please, prove my statement is incorrect.
Instead of bolstering your position or just agreeing that we would not agree, you made another childish post. I guess you will take your ball and go home.
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