The Old "will this splitter work" question....

[UTE-GE]

For all you more Technically inclined folks.

I am looking for a splitter to use with a loop for a, yet to be in my possession, RSP-R2. I would like to add back into the equation my trusty (and recently "tuned up") Icom R71 that got me started in this adventure years ago. Can't bare to see it just sit there while the newer generation is getting all the attention. And I miss spinning and pushing things. lol

Anyway, after doing some "window" shopping I found the Elad ASA-15 at a hefty price, but if it works.....
Then I found a more reasonably priced Mini Circuits ZSC -2-2+ and confusion set in.
Sweat running down my forehead, cold clammy feeling and this is where I decided for more knowledgeable brains to step in and hold my hand.

My main form of listening is Utilities and lately Pirate radio. So, keeping the signal strong is key, obviously.

I try to remember all that I read on here about Db loss and such and am willing to a DEGREE to accept some.
IF, I have to, I guess I would just buy another W6LVP loop. I like Larry anyway, so that would be OK.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

​

 

[K4EET]

<snip>
I try to remember all that I read on here about Db loss and such and am willing to a DEGREE to accept some.
<snip>

How much of a dB loss is “some”? Would you accept 3dB on each receive leg which will give you half of the signal going into the splitter?

 

[UTE-GE]

How much of a dB loss is “some”? Would you accept 3dB on each receive leg which will give you half of the signal going into the splitter?

Well, that is my question. I read on the Mini's site, that's where it's at approximately for a given Khz.
Putting as you did, "HALF" is a lot! Not dealing with or hearing the difference is where I am struggling to grasp this whole thing.
Simpleton terms "HALF of a Dollar is .50".

Now to inflict more. The ASA has amplifiers to make up for the loss(?), if I am understanding it right. Would this be correct?

Look like I even put this in the wrong locations too. Sorry

 

[K4EET]

Well, if the received signal is “strong”, then half (3dB) of that signal would probably not make much of a difference to the human ear. However, if the received signal is “weak”, then half (3dB) of that signal would probably be pure noise/static to the human ear. There are other factors that make matters worse in a hurry. One is your “noise floor” at the receiver from surrounding conditions. If the noise floor is high enough, that strong signal cut in half could also turn in to pure noise/static. This is the situation that you are up against with the Mini Circuits 50 ohm splitter.

The W6LVP magnetic loop receive antenna apparently has a pre-amp for the received signal. That could also work against you. It’s a garbage in equals amplified garbage out situation. Not knowing anything about W6LVP’s design, I can’t really comment about the pre-amp. But it will amplify much that goes in since it is a broadband antenna/pre-amp.

Now the Elad unit may be overkill since it can handle 5 receivers for 1 antenna. Since each port has its own gain adjustment and there are 5 ports, that is driving up the price. Unless you plan to use all 5 ports in the future, I would consider a smaller unit. Finally, yes the gain feature is there to help overcome losses.

With your Icom R71 connected directly to your magnetic loop receive antenna, what is your noise floor level on your bands of interest with no received signal from known transmitters?

I hope that all makes sense. I tried to keep it all in simple language while still trying to paint a picture in your mind as to what the received signal might sound like.

 

[prcguy]

HF reception is ruled by signal to noise ratio and not necessarily signal level. If all of the stuff you listen to has good or great SNR then you can probably afford to use a splitter and loose 50% to each receiver. In that case the signal level on your S meter will go down 1/2 S unit but reception may sound the same.

 

[UTE-GE]

Well, if the received signal is “strong”, then half (3dB) of that signal would probably not make much of a difference to the human ear. However, if the received signal is “weak”, then half (3dB) of that signal would probably be pure noise/static to the human ear. There are other factors that make matters worse in a hurry. One is your “noise floor” at the receiver from surrounding conditions. If the noise floor is high enough, that strong signal cut in half could also turn in to pure noise/static. This is the situation that you are up against with the Mini Circuits 50 ohm splitter.

The W6LVP magnetic loop receive antenna apparently has a pre-amp for the received signal. That could also work against you. It’s a garbage in equals amplified garbage out situation. Not knowing anything about W6LVP’s design, I can’t really comment about the pre-amp. But it will amplify much that goes in since it is a broadband antenna/pre-amp.

Now the Elad unit may be overkill since it can handle 5 receivers for 1 antenna. Since each port has its own gain adjustment and there are 5 ports, that is driving up the price. Unless you plan to use all 5 ports in the future, I would consider a smaller unit. Finally, yes the gain feature is there to help overcome losses.

With your Icom R71 connected directly to your magnetic loop receive antenna, what is your noise floor level on your bands of interest with no received signal from known transmitters?

I hope that all makes sense. I tried to keep it all in simple language while still trying to paint a picture in your mind as to what the received signal might sound like.

Now I'm picking up what your saying! Right now I have the 71 tucked away. Currently using a SDRPLAY 2, noise level generally sitting around -115dBm. Have a RSPdx-R2 on the way that is supposed to be quieter. Although, when I had the 71 hooked to a Par EF-SWL, I was hearing morning prayers from somewhere in the Mideast. That was 15+ yrs ago, before I found all the different websites and such.

I agree that the ASA is way over kill. Only really need/want 2 out ports.

I am really happy with the W6LVP, on good nights I am pulling in some contacts with low power according to Short-Wave.info from East Asia, Mideast etc.

Also, I chase around the folks at HF Underground when they post up catches.

I am working on getting my Par EF-SWL back in the air to see what turns up.

I really need to hunker down and learn more of the technicalities of the wallet killer. lol

Thanks!

 

[UTE-GE]

HF reception is ruled by signal to noise ratio and not necessarily signal level. If all of the stuff you listen to has good or great SNR then you can probably afford to use a splitter and loose 50% to each receiver. In that case the signal level on your S meter will go down 1/2 S unit but reception may sound the same.

More good info! That's my conundrum, knowing what I have compared to someone else and there setup and RX capabilities.

I thoroughly enjoy digging out the hard stuff that's barely there, so to speak.
Between you and K4EET, I'm either keeping it "clean" or going the cheaper route IF I decide to use one.

Back on the fence, but leaning to the no split side.

Thanks guys!

 

[prcguy]

An active antenna like the W6LVP loop should have plenty of amplification to loose 3dB through a splitter.

 

[UTE-GE]

An active antenna like the W6LVP loop should have plenty of amplification to loose 3dB through a splitter.

Let me see now.
Cost of Mini Circuits splitter is $82.79 + $6.99 shipping = $89.78
cost of a average drive through lunch is $13.50
$89.78/$13.50=6.65 days lunch, rounded up to 7
5 day in a work week
Great Value baked beans are $1.17 per can +.08 tax = $1.25
$8.75 for 7 days lunch

Hmmm.... I think this is do-able
Ya know, beans aren't to bad.

 

[pro92b]

Would this meet your needs?

Mini-Circuits ZSC-2-1 Coaxial 2-Way Power Splitter Combiner, 0.1 to 400 MHz | eBay

Sold as-is, as pictured. About: We are NES Sales, Northeast's industrial source. Model: ZSC-2-1.

www.ebay.com

 

[UTE-GE]

I'm going with the bean diet and a ZSC -2-2+. Will be using it for HF, 2 kHz - 60 MHz

Thanks though