This is a requried training video for all police now?

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Scandxer

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Mikey hasn't had his rights or freedoms revoked, we are all potentially subject to pat downs by TSA. That is the price you pay to fly these days. I know, you would have rather none of these liberty-robbing policies be instituted in the first place. Had they not, how many of us would be dead now and not even discussing this? You say none, I say we've thwarted many an attack. It doesn't take an expert in national security to make that observation based on what we already know about those that brought about 9/11.

And how many brand new terrorists were created after our mass slaughtering of innocent Iraq's and Afghani's?

Surely enough to perpetually keep the "War On Terrorism" going forever and keep the profit rolling in.

Todays Wars are for profit. But I'm sure you already know that because it doesn't take an expert.
 

mdulrich

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1. Innocent until proven guilty.
What American citizen has been thrown in prison without a trial? How many of the people in the video were recommended to be taken to prison? The answer is none, zip, nada. No rights raped.

2. Are you serious? You do know about WTC7 ?!?!
Yep I know about it and there are plenty of architects and engineers who have stated the opposite of what you choose to believe.

Steel and concrete buildings don't fall at free fall speed, which means ABSOLUTELY NO RESISTANCE WHATSOEVER, with out the use of explosives. It is impossible. Can't happen.[/QUOTE}

Your opinion. Show us video evidence.

How many multi story wooden structure fires you seen collapse at free fall speed after only 50 minutes of fire? I'm not saying that they don't collapse but think about how much fire it would take to twist steel and pulverize concrete.
I didn't realize the WTC buildings were wooden structures. I've seen lots of fire in steel buildings and every one of them had twisted steel when they collapsed. Hint, that is why they collapsed. Fire doesn't pulverize concrete, 110 stories collapsing does.

Look at the steel beams in the background.. notice the perfect angle cuts from a cutter charge?
When were these pictures taken? Lots of cutting with torches was done during the rescue and recovery efforts.

WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise NOT HIT BY AN AIRPLANE, exhibits all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives: (and some non-standard characteristics)
Hmmm, non-standard characteristics of a controlled demolition with explosives. How does that fit into your theory.

Controlled demolition requires that structural members get cut/removed before the demolition. Where did they put all the wiring that would be required to bring down buildings of this size. Remember WTC 1 & 2 floor areas were an acre in size. Lots of wiring would need to be run, hidden, to a control panel well away from the buildings. How was all that done days before 9/11 with nobody noticing? I've been around a couple of controlled demolitions and it is amazing all the work that goes into one of these things and it wasn't even close to a building with a floor area of an acre, not to mention 110 stories.

Maybe at WTC 7 they did all this work after 1 & 2 collapsed while the building was on fire. Yeah, right.

With all the news coverage there isn't a single recording that captures these explosions. But I guess the news is part of the conspiracy.

It doesn't take a huge amount of fire to bend/twist structural steel involved in fire especially with the stresses involved with a building this size and weight.

The area most damaged by fire was was in the center of WTC 1 & 2, hence the pancake collapse which brings down one floor after another thru the center of a building.

Sorry but Terrorists don't scare me, but then again neither does the boogie man.
I bet you would have been had you been on the 4 airliners on 9/11, at Ft. Hood, on the Tokyo subway, the Spanish train station, the airliner at Christmas, etc.

Lets keep in mind All steel from the WTC was hauled off to China/India Immediantly to be meteled down and recyled.
Not all of it and what was wasn't hauled away immediately.

Also The BIGGEST CRIME SCENE IN U.S. HISTORY didn't have a criminal investigation??!! Are you ******* kidding me?
Are you sure of that?


If the Government has nothing to hide why are they so scared of a New Independent 9/11 Investigation.
With the dems extreme hatred toward GWB don't you think if there was a shred of evidence of this crap that he and Cheney would have been on trial by now?

Why are they turning their backs when so many first responders, Our Brothers and Sisters, are dieing?
They aren't turning their backs. The government didn't do it. They are holding some of the people responsible at Gitmo, but now Obama has decided for political reasons to try them in civilian courts.

Mike
 
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cfr301

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Oh Brother.. the NUT cases just can't accept fact. What the HECK kind of structural damage do you suppose was done by those jet airliners crashing into those buildings and the fumes from leaking jet fuel that exploded after impact with the building? Both Crashes were recorded on video in New York and the one at the Pentagon was caught partially on a security Cam. The brave folks in Pennsylvania saved the Whitehouse or the Capitol building. Anyone who tries to imply this is something other than what it was is JUST as nuts as the idiots who plan this stuff!
 
N

N_Jay

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Given the near total insanity you two are showing this will be my last post in this thread.
N_jay You are like an automated answering service running interference for crappy businesses, same old song and dance, too set in your ways.
This is too laughable. In the PM you said I was two-faced because I not consistent (in your mind) in my answers in various threads. Here you say the opposite. The truth is you have shown an inability to understand what is written, other than if it was not in total agreement with your brainwashed position, it was all wrong.
Because you attack those peoples answers with, the usual, do the math, or look at the facts, or some other subtly insulting comment cutting that person down, it just can't be left alone without escalating it to some kind of argument or war or what have you.
Again, a laughable statement. You have said that “Sometimes you have to look beyond the facts”, but your standard response is not to answer any question that requires any rational thought. Maybe sometimes you do have to look beyond the facts, but in this (and just about every other thread) you ALWAYS ignore the facts for your own twisted beliefs.
Well we are all waiting... Enlighten us please.
You are the one proposing you KNOW what I think, so I will leave it to you to read my posts.
Go ahead and Call me "shallow and crazy" but I think the U.S. Government calling its own citizens possible Terrorists and then putting them in a secret database, regardless if they are Terrorists or not, is wrong.
You call me crazy, I call you stupid is the dance we seem to be doing Lol :)
Another misdirected answer. Please reread my statement.
I take it you are referring to the 9/11 Truther's conspiracy?.
That is one, but it applies to almost all conspiracy theories.
Ever notice how the same people tend to believe in that all.
Although I'd have to agree with the truthers, architects, physicists, pilots, and scholars on that one.
The problem is you (and most of the gullible gang) have not looked at the other side. What supports your preconceived (Brainwashed) position must be fact and nothing else has to be considered.
Let me ask you, how many structural engineers have you talked to about what happened? Have you dared challenged your beliefs to test the rational?
Terrorists from far away caves, with plastic knives, strategically making 3 skyscrapers fall down oh so perfectly at free-falling speed with only 2 airplanes.
Here we go again with the irrational twisting of facts to fit your beliefs.
I am sure they had no idea they would be so ‘successful’, they just wants to do damage and kill people.
First time in history a steel building has collapsed due to fire.
Not true, and does not become true no matter how many time the lying ‘truthers’ repeat it.
3 in the same day.. now theres a coincidence if I've ever heard one.
More of your silly rationalizations. It was one complex.
Are you denying that the TSC exists? If it does exist wouldn't the police need training on how to use it?
Let me understand your (so called) “LOGIC”?
Because the TSC exists, that is your proof that this is a mandatory training film for every LEO in the United States? (Ouch, that hurt)
Of course they need to get training out, some may use this video, some will do their own training, and some will set their own policies.
Of course that has nothing to do with the many irrational objections you and your cohort have posted throughout this thread.
What I posted is the original training video. You posted some Alex Jones commentary video because you are trying to associate me with him to somehow prove you arguments.
No, you posted a clipping of the video assembled from the clippings of the video shown on the Alex Johns show.
I posted the missing pieces of the Alex Johns show to help others see the context your clippings came from.
You, in posting that video associated yourself with Alex Johns by using him as your source and not even knowing where it came from or what it was part of.
You Fail.
No! You have failed repeatedly!
Why the heck would I be against NCIC checks? .
I don’t know, most of your other positions are not rational. I was just expanding on that line of thinking.
What I am against is the possible labeling of innocent American citizens as terrorists.
Congratulations, and I am sure we will get there. But until then, I am satisfied with the system we have (and trust it is getting better)
It's funny both these guys agree the government is totally "inept to coordinate everyday actions" but yet still trust them enough to Protect them from something as serious as Terrorism.
More of your twisted reading of each and every post to fit your thinking.
No one said “totally”, you added that to make your illogic fit.
And no one said we trust then completely, as you do in your continued twisting.
However, we just don’t TOTALLY DISTRUST the “government as you say you do.
(I know, you guys cannot comprehend the possibility of a middle ground. In your minds, a person has to either believe all the crap you believe, or must be a “government boy”.)
Do I laugh at or cry for the naive?
Both: We laugh at you and cry for those who have to deal with you in real life.
 

Scandxer

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Joined
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Messages
77
Oh Brother.. the NUT cases just can't accept fact. What the HECK kind of structural damage do you suppose was done by those jet airliners crashing into those buildings and the fumes from leaking jet fuel that exploded after impact with the building? Both Crashes were recorded on video in New York and the one at the Pentagon was caught partially on a security Cam. The brave folks in Pennsylvania saved the Whitehouse or the Capitol building. Anyone who tries to imply this is something other than what it was is JUST as nuts as the idiots who plan this stuff!

Hey cfr301, JoeyC, mdulrich, and N_Jay.. (N_jay you're just a troll)

Why are you guys so blind ?

Does it feel good to pat each other on the back?

Does it make you feel Patriotic or something when you battle those mean 'ole 9/11 Truthers on the internet. Lol

Listen to yourselves! Seriously.

Trust me, I was just like you guys. I used to ignore, laugh at or ridicule the "Truthers".

I know first hand how hard imagining your own Government killing 3000 Americans is.

But people are just asking questions about 9/11. Whats wrong with that?

Why is it that if anyone questions 9/11 we are just called conspiracy theorists or crazy?



TIME TO WAKE UP !!



AND ADD 60 MORE "NUTCASES" TO THE LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



60 Aerospace Engineers Call for a New 9/11 Investigation

21 January 2010 | Filed Under: AE911Truth.org, Dwain Deets

By Dwain Deets, AE911Truth.org

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60 Aerospace Engineers Call for a New 9/11 Investigation | World for 9/11 Truth | W9T.org


As the number of verified architect and engineer petitioners at AE911Truth passes 1,000, the number describing themselves as aerospace engineers, or as engineers who have contributed professionally to the aerospace field, exceed sixty. These sixty-plus engineers were motivated to place their names on the public record as a matter of professional and social responsibility. While the skills necessary to conduct professional forensic analysis of destroyed buildings is largely distinct from those experienced in aerospace engineering, the basic physical laws involved in an analysis of the speed, symmetry, and energy input/output balance of the World Trade Center’s destruction involve only high school physics and chemistry, some lookups regarding the energy necessary to crush concrete, and basic arithmetic.

Here is a listing of these sixty-plus aerospace engineers, together with brief bios and their statements made at the time they signed: The engineers are listed alphabetically, grouped with those having full careers in aerospace listed first, and those with less than 30 years in aerospace listed second.


Engineers with Full Careers in Aerospace

Phil R. Bales, Aerospace Reliability and Life-Cycle Engineer. Employers have included major commercial engine companies, Teledyne CAE, Raytheon, and US Navy Civil Service.

“I was acutely aware of Engineering Cost Analysis and Life Cycle Cost Analysis, with many post graduate courses in these disciplines. My career was heavily biased toward statistical analysis and Warranty Cost Forecasting, requiring me to consider all possibilities, emphasizing the likelihood that the less likely events should be considered less heavily.

“Perhaps, this is why I was extremely reluctant to even consider the possibility that 9/11 could have been a staged event. ‘What is the chance that our own government could pull that off and get away with it?’ I pondered. When I was confronted with the facts, and I considered the reality that the temperatures of jet fuel combustion do not support the suggested failure modes posed by the government’s official report, I was forced into a paradigm shift. This reality has changed my entire perspective on the groups that I had previously dismissed as emotional, uneducated fools. I was wrong and I am grateful to the 9/11 Truthers for holding me accountable for the Truth! Now, I too am a 9/11 Truther.

“The facts about the collapse of three WTC buildings on 9/11/2001 just do not support the theory posed by the PBS Report, or the US Government’s publication. There must be further explanation to satisfy my hunger for the truth about the horrible realities of the WTC and Pentagon murders.

“As an engineer, as a patriot, as citizen of the United States of America, I demand that the government which is accountable to its citizens appoint an independent commission to investigate and report on the Truth of 9/11/2001.”

Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret; Exec VP, Millennium III Corp; Vice-Pres, Space Communications Co; Director of Advanced Space Programs Development, US Space Division (USAF); 101 combat missions F4, Vietnam; Head of Aero. Eng. Dept & Asst Dean, AF Inst of Tech, WPAFB.

“The official explanation in the NIST report violates the laws of physics. It is physically impossible for a building (or anything else) to fall at near-free-fall speed and do work (smashing steel and concrete) on the way down. An external energy input (like explosives) is absolutely essential. In addition, for the top of one of the towers to tip about 30 degrees and NOT continue tipping and falling off violates the law of conservation of angular momentum. The symmetrical collapse of building 7 due to highly asymmetrical damage is also unbelievable. We have not yet been told the truth. If the government has nothing to hide, why continue to hide everything? Why not a new and truly independent investigation?”

Dr. Alvin M. Bloom, Engineering consultant. BS, MS, PhD in Aerospace Engineering from University of Texas at Austin 1967

“Building collapses (straight down) at free fall speed could only be caused by a controlled demolition.”

Paul Browning, M.S. 35 years engineering experience with a NASA contractor, Bell Labs, Bellcore, AT&T Labs and Cingular/AT&T Mobility (12 years Engineering Management)

“The only steel framed skyscrapers to have ever collapsed as a result of a fire were WTC 1, 2, and 7. These buildings were built to withstand the impact of a fully loaded Boeing 707, an aircraft about the same size and weight as the aircraft that hit them on 9/11.

“Temperatures produced by the fires simply did not reach those required to have a significant impact on the building’s structural integrity. Firemen 2 floors beneath the impact area in one building radioed out that the fire was controllable. Obviously he was not confronting a temperature of 2000 degrees only two stories above him. Pictures showed survivors of the impact standing in the hole made by the aircraft. These people wouldn’t have been there under the kind of conditions assumed by the official story.

“Fireman recalled hearing a series of secondary explosions exactly like those that would have been used to cause a controlled demolition and that the collapses looked exactly like that’s what happened.

“WTC 7 was hit by nothing and yet collapsed in the same way as the towers. Molten metal containing sulfur, indicating thermate, remained underneath all three buildings for weeks after 9/11. The structural steel debris was carted away as soon as possible without inspection. Taking pictures of ground zero or even stopping to look at it was made a criminal offense.

“The impact of the aircraft and the resulting fires could not possibly have caused the twin towers to collapse and saying that the collapse of WTC 7 was due to the impacts is simply absurd.”

Dr. David Chen, PhD in EE from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Worked at various aerospace companies doing artificial intelligence work, networked, real-time systems, and network security. Currently an Associate Technical Fellow at the Boeing Anaheim, California site.

“NIST & the US Congress should be ashamed of the poor investigation.

“Thanks to the architects & engineers of this site for carrying the torch for truth.”

Malcolm Davis, Degree in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Texas (Austin) in 1961.

“It is absurd to think that WTC 7 collapsed as a result of the events, as generally promoted, surrounding September 11.

“It is indeed depressing to observe that a large number of United States citizens didn’t even know that WTC 7 even existed.”

Joseph L. DeClue, Graduate MIT Class 1951, Retired Pres. Database Multitech, Designed analog and digital circuits. Eventually managed as Chief Engineer and V.P. Engineering of several companies and founded Database Multitech as a design and service company.

“The Government’s politically-correct explanation is not credible. It seems highly likely that our government must have had some part or at least been aware of the pending attack. Also the lack of response by the Air Force was not credible.”

Dwain A. Deets, Former Aerospace Research Engineer. While at NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, held positions of Chief, Research Engineering Division, Director for Aeronautical Projects, and Flight Research Program Manager.

“The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved.”

Thomas James Dolan, 45 years as mechanical/project engineer on Apollo manned lunar landing program, X-15, B-70, T-39, aircraft accident investigator (USC & FAA certified), Boeing 767, Space Shuttle, Navstar Global Positioning System and the Space Station.

“I have seen on TV commercial buildings collapse under controlled demolition prior to 911. I have been told that no certified US demolition companies will comment officially on 911. I personally saw and heard in real time 2 firemen (one dirty and exhausted, seated outside on a low brick garden wall) and another just reporting for action – nice and clean. Both were looking at Building 7 in the near background (1 block?) away and to the question for the exhausted one by the fresh one regarding its status the exhausted one looked at his watch and said as clearly as I can remember, ‘Its going down about 4:30! I didn’t think too much about it at the time but now I think about it a lot whenever 911 comes up!’”

Larry Erickson, Retired NASA engineer (33 years). Performed research in the fields of structural dynamics, aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter.
 
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Scandxer

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“Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations.”

Edmond (Monty) John Forbes, In 1981 joined MITRE Corp, Bedford MA as Lead Sys Engineer for airborne Wide Body Presidential assets. This extended to Special Service classified systems in both fixed wing & rotary wing platforms until retirement in 2004.

“True, both WTC 1 & 2, North & South structures were impacted by commercial “767’s” killing innocent passengers, crew & hijackers along with occupants in the building floors at point of impact. The devastation and human loss beyond the impact site was due to other influences because of the proven design and features of the Towers.

“The temperatures in the impact areas due to burning Jet-A fuel and the office furnishings and business tools could NOT rise to the level of 3000-4000 deg. F necessary to deform and fail structural steel joints and the total collapse of the structures.

“Such ‘failure’ could only be caused by man-made features of pyro-technical assets pre-placed by ‘outsiders.’ Look at the destruction of WTC 7. No aircraft or heavy debris collateral from the Towers struck that building.

“All destruction was in the classical method of building REMOVAL to make way for new assets.”

Marc Graziani, Engineer and engineering manager for Sperry Utah and Univac for many years, primarily in the aerospace industry.

“There is no degree required for simple common sense, if all structures fell as these structures did then why do we spend millions of dollars each year paying demolition experts to demolish structures for minimal collateral damage? This is not a perfect world, no structure of this magnitude could weaken perfectly and collapse in on themselves.”

Dr. Jay Kappraff, Assoc. Professor of Mathematics. Chemical engineer with Dupont 1960-1961, Aerospace Engineer with NADA 1963-1965, Ph.D. in mathematics from NYU Courant Inst. specializing in Plasma Physics, Assoc. Prof of Math. at New Jersey Inst. of Technology 1974-present.

“The analysis of the 3 collapses of the WTC as narrated by Richard Gage is very convincing. That the building collapsed near the speed of gravity has no other explanation other than controlled demolition. The symmetric collapse reinforces this hypothesis.”

Kathleen McGrade, B.S. Materials Engineering at NMIMT, class of ‘78. Joined a start up named Starstruck formed to launch a rocket for delivering satellites into near earth orbit. Was with two other start ups, Metcal and Crystallume. Now owns a “regular” company that inspects and tests fire trucks throughout CA & CO.

“After reading everything I could find for four months on the subject to where my head was spinning, I realized that all the evidence you need to see the truth is in the 10-second video of the Bldg. 7 collapse. You don’t need an engineering degree to see it.”

David Wayne Nicholson, Windhunter Corporation President. Worked in the nuclear, automotive, aerospace and pharmaceutical industries concentrating on the design of machinery. Some equipment contained 3,000 degree F gases that were used to test gas turbine components.

“My professional experience with metals in high temperature environments convinced me that the three buildings could not have been demolished with jet fuel fires.”.

Keith Emanuel Noren, Senior Systems Engineer. 35 years engineering mostly in Missile Defense (IR Sensors, Discrimination, Flight Test Planning).

“Way too many questions unanswered – 3 Towers apparently destroyed (pulverization of concrete, melting temp not reached, free fall speed, upward steel beams, chem analysis showing explosives, molten steel in basement, rapid removal of debris), too many advance intel notices to be pure incompetence, insider trading, virtual Air Defense shutdown, Norm Mineta/Richard Clarke vs Dick Cheney testimonies, Pentagon withholding of surveillance cameras, black hole/no aircraft debris at Shanksville, …”

Robert W. Poltz, President and CEO of Design Analytx International, world leader in high tech systems reliability design analysis. Published 19 articles on Reliability Engineering 2000-01. Member of the Society of Reliability Engineering, IEEE, and ASQ (American Society for Quality).

“I became keenly aware that something wasn’t right about the whole scenario surrounding the collapse of two skyscrapers. Having grown up in the shadow of the Empire State Building in New York City in my youth and young adult life, I remember hearing in school that lower Manhattan was ‘Ground Zero’ in the event of nuclear attack. Living and working in skyscrapers is the norm in NYC. They are virtually indestructible given the amount of steel used and a history of over-building these structures. Then I saw the Loose Change video and that opened my eyes in disbelief that our government could do something like this and hope to get away with it. Let’s start with independent hearings to determine the cause of failure of these buildings from a scientific analysis. Let the evidence lead us from there towards criminal prosecution of the guilty.”

Attila M. Revesz, Senior Member of IEEE and Senior Member of AIAA, Worked as a research engineer and taught college level physics and math in Hungary. Worked as a design engineer in aerospace industry and business manager in California.

“Watching the rapid and symmetrical collapse of the building to its own footprint contradicts the official story. The sound of explosion at ground level shortly prior to collapse suggests controlled demolition.”

Eddy Shalom, Over 30 years of experience working in NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in flight electronics and other areas, as an engineer and as a technical manager.

“As a physics major, it has been clear to me for some time that the ‘Official Conspiracy Theory’ is totally absurd.

“It is not clear to me why so many intelligent people with the same education and training refuse to even review the evidence with an open mind.

“This is our greatest challenge and underutilized resource.”


Engineers with less than 30 years in Aerospace

Melissa Allin, P.E., B.S. Aerospace Engineering, University of Oklahoma. Over 15 years in mechanical design, pumping systems and fluid systems design and testing.

“I have spent five years researching and discussing the events of 9/11. The reason I would like to sign this petition for a new investigation is due to the unanswered questions, informational gaps, inconsistencies and discrepancies of the 9/11 Commission Report in general, and because of the unacceptable work of the NIST in investigating the collapse of the towers specifically.

“The tragedy of 9/11 and the mass of civilian deaths that occurred that day demand a proper investigation, unbiased fact-seeking, and full-disclosure. The American people have been charged $16 million by the NIST and received nothing of value in return for that price. I would lose my engineering license if I pulled that stunt.”

William J. Blanch, Aerospace Controls Engineer, formerly with NASA Ames and Lockheed Martin.

“As a Controls Engineer I worked with angular momentum and I just couldn’t understand how the vector of the collapse was perpendicular to the ground and straight down the center of the buildings. The expansion of the trusses would need to be ‘linear’ for this collapse vector to be possible.”

Raymond William Blohm, Aerospace Engineer, formerly with Boeing Vertol, Air Force Flight Dynamics Laboratory, and Warner Robins Air Logistics Center.

“Since the ‘attack’, I have been perusing the credible books and documentaries concerning either the actual event or the greater political — intelligence agency — corporatocracy — financial setting. Books like James Bamford’s The Shadow Factory & Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine and documentaries like Zeitgeist, The Movie: World Trade Center and Core Of Corruption have caused me to doubt the official story (including the building collapses). We need to know what kind of world we live in.”

Arthur L. Carran, P.E., Commercial Pilot Certificate with Instrument Flight Rating; B.S., Aerospace Engineering Technology, Kent State University; Professional Engineer, State of Ohio; Employed in Aerospace Engineering field since 1983.

“WTC 1, 2, and 7 show that the official story is false because of the symmetrical collapse, the free-fall speed of the collapse, the pulverization of the concrete to dust, the cutting of the columns to convenient lengths, and the persistent molten pools of steel. The Pentagon event shows that the official story is false because of the improbable flight path flown by the 757. The Shanksville event shows that the official story is false because of the characteristics of the aircraft debris field.”

Thomas Edward Carter, Optical Engineer for over 14 years. Have worked in the defense industry, semiconductor industry, biological industry, R&D and aerospace industries.

“The Tower 7 collapse needs to be investigated more thoroughly. Physics is a tough competitor.”

David M. Clifford, Aerospace engineering graduate from Cal Poly SLO with emphasis on mechanics of composite materials.

“It is a sad day for humanity when institutions are killing their own for conquest/monetary gain. The evidence clearly shows demolition was behind the collapse of all THREE towers.”
 
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Scandxer

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
77
Erwin DeJong, MS (Mechanical and Structural Engineering). Currently occupied in offshore (steel structure) and aerospace engineering.

“From a technical point of view it is not explainable that a steel structure sinks down into its own footprint with obviously no resistance after intense fires or even a plane crash.”

Paul Dewey, Mechanical Engineer. Over 25 years experience developing products and systems, and analyzing failures in the aerospace, electronics and medical fields.

“The official report describing the cause of the collapse of the three structures at the World Trade Center seems to reach conclusions not based on the evidence presented and does not address evidence that does not support the conclusion. It is not credible.

“Many actions costing many lives and billions of taxpayers’ money have been initiated based on the story repeated in that report. The American people, and the people of the world, deserve a thorough review of all the relevant data and facts and an open analysis and conclusion from a reputable and diverse professional group. Please find the courage to support revisiting the facts surrounding the collapse of the buildings on 9/11. Thank you.”

Maurizio Di Pierro, Graduated in Aerospace Engineering at Politecnico di Torino, Italy.

“I am convinced that a steel frame building has a very small probability of collapse in an event of fire. The WTC 7 collapse is not explainable without resorting to controlled demolition. The symmetry and velocity of collapse, the dynamics of collapse in general point toward the controlled demolition as a cause of collapse.

“Also, certain footage fully qualifies as forensic evidence.

“As for the airplane hitting the Pentagon, I support PilotsFor911Truth.org, and find it implausible that the airplane ‘vaporized’ upon impact scattering so few debris and showing a narrow and deep penetration into the building.”

Robert G. Doniacour, E.E., Trained as an Electrical Engineer. I’ve worked for NASA and other companies designing control systems for mechanical motion control systems.

“We must perform publicly and with peer review an extensive analysis of the WTC collapse. The official explanation stops at the onset of collapse. To even explain the start of the collapse without explosives requires some far-fetched ideas. There are lots of energy analyses to do that I have not seen done.

“How can multi-ton steel beams be ejected with enough force to embed themselves in buildings far away?

“What explains the symmetry of the collapse? Uncontrolled phenomena are seldom symmetrical.”

Benjamin Erwin, B.S. in Aerospace Engineering from M.I.T. with specialization in structural engineering. M.A.T. in Physics Education.

“The lack of any core columns still standing even though the fall was straight down is certainly puzzling.”

Jean Evrard, Univ of Brussels (1963, engineering), Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago (1967, aerospace), von Karman Institute for Fluid Dynamics in Brussels (1968, fluid mechanics). After having worked as a researcher for NASA, moved from science to business.

“Compare the WTC steel beams with the Madrid tower steel beams … Madrid fire photos

“Unlike the twin trade towers (and WTC 7), this 32 story steel beamed building remains standing after burning for 17 hours straight.

“Does steel act differently in Spain and the USA?

“When and how will we legally sue the Bush Administration?”

Christopher Thomas ***an, Project engineer for NASA battery backup unit on mobile launcher. Worked for 5 years before company went off shore.

“3 buildings coming down with 2 planes doesn’t work out. The new stories of superthermite in the dust at four locations shows that the demolitions were planned. As an engineer with statics and dynamics classes as well as properties of materials, I want to see the equations. Smarter people I trust will analyze these with a fine-toothed comb. It is hard to hide from a complete set of questions.”

Dr. Edwin L. Force, Experience includes 20 years Oil & Chemical Industries, 10 years NASA, now retired.

“Information available suggests thorough, unbiased, complete investigation is warranted. Credentials of critics are impressive.”

T. Mark Hightower, Worked initially in the chemical industry. For the last nearly 20 years, worked in aerospace. Member of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, as well as a member of the American Institute of Chemical Engineers.

“I woke up to the problems with the building collapses in January 2004 when I stumbled upon a web site that showed evidence that they were brought down with controlled demolition. It is clear that the buildings had help to bring them down. The collapses of WTC towers 1 and 2 were obviously far more energetic events than can be explained by some sort of progressive gravitational collapse initiated by a simple weakening of the structure by hydrocarbon fire. Here I am thinking of the tremendous dust clouds (pyroclastic flows) and the nearly free-fall speed. Building 7, not hit by a plane, appears to have been a classic controlled demolition, and perfectly symmetrically executed.”

Brett M. Hoffstadt, Advanced degree and nearly 20 years experience in engineering and aerospace.

“WTC 7 had no logical or physical reason to collapse as it did. That event deserves an honest investigation and explanation.”

William T. Holmes, Degree in aeronautical engineering, but with interest in architecture and structural engineering. This continued even with aeronautical engineering career.

“No question of demolition. See voluntary society, where you’ll find a chronology of U.S. false flag events and Tower profitability information. Also there is documentation of Tower bi-metallic corrosion, and a demand by the EPA that Towers 1 and 2 be disassembled by 2007 rather than demolished. Disassembly was prohibitively expensive. Corroborating evidence of this is needed.

“Is it possible that every tall building is wired for demolition to avoid toppling due to an earthquake or bomb, and in the case of the Towers, the buildings were demolished to avoid collateral property damage the moment they started to topple, despite being occupied? Building 7 would argue against that.”

Scott Nigel Hudson, Aeronautical Stress Engineer for three years in Bristol, England. Helped design primary flight control actuators for helicopter & U.A.V. applications. Worked on aircraft landing gear also.

“Theoretical impossibility for a steel-framed skyscraper to collapse symmetrically virtually into its own footprint at near-free-fall speed due to office fires, while looking like a controlled demolition.”

Bruce C. Jenkins, Design Engineer on several upper stage and satellite structures including satellite boosters and aircraft fuselage, with Lockheed Missiles & Space Corp and Aerospace Corp.

“It is beyond engineering comprehension that the WTC buildings could have collapsed the way they did by any other means than a controlled demolition.”

David C. Lasich, B.S. in Aerospace Engineering in 1990. Worked in the field of engineering for over 15 years. Also earned a secondary teaching credential and have taught math up to the high school level.

“The few videos I have seen and interviews I have heard were taken with much skepticism. However there are many troubling questions that I feel the 9/11 Commission did not answer. The most troubling to me is that the investigation was obviously not done in a completely objective and scientific way. Much evidence was neglected, and those on the panel most likely had prejudices to the findings.”

Eli Aaron Meyer, Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical Engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in 1998.

“I tend to view “conspiracy theory” material as a skeptic, and this is how I approached this issue. After reading peer-reviewed studies done at Brigham Young University, I began taking the issue seriously. The fact that many other high-rise structures have sustained fires for long durations without structural failure really makes me question how Jet A fuel burned at atmospheric conditions (sustained fires, post-explosion) could possibly generate the heat necessary to compromise the structural integrity of the steel to result in structural failure. The near free-fall collapse speeds (documented on video) of the buildings doesn’t seem possible from a localized structural failure. If there was structural failure as a result of fire and impact, I would expect an asymmetrical failure of the buildings; however the buildings almost entirely [came straight down] upon themselves. I would like to see some more research done upon this subject.”

Terry Petersen, E.E., Served six years in the Army. Got my degree and went straight into an aerospace company and have been there for 12 years.

“My main problem is the amount of rubble that went over the sides combined with rapid collapse.

“My opinion is that contrasting the South Tower core standing after the collapse to what Bazant presents may be the best way to get “skeptical” engineers on board.”

Gregory A. Prinz, Mechanical Engineer. I graduated in 1986, worked in the aerospace/telecommunications industry as a production engineer, building countermeasures defense systems for the military until 1990.

“I originally (immediately after the attacks) thought that the official story of collapse made sense from an engineering standpoint. However, after spending countless hours reading reports, looking through comprehensive engineering analyses, studying the tower’s design aspects, and seeing what a poor, non-technical report/explanation was produced by our government, there is no doubt that there needs to be a more thorough investigation into what happened. It does not add up.”

Samuel Lowndes Ready, Received MSEE from University of Southern California with an emphasis on computers in 1958. Then worked in Aerospace for 26 years for several different companies in So. Cal.

“From all the different videos I have seen it seems very clear that the collapse of the 3 WTC buildings was due to controlled demolition.”

David Roark Redick, 5 yrs rocket engineer and 30 years telecom sales, eng., and management; CEO and co-founder Silicon Valley startup Fiberstreet in 2000.

“No way except controlled demolition do all parts of a floor collapse at once; plus sequence of floor collapses top to bottom on WTC 1&2.

“The Twin Towers were built with an exterior structure of large vertical I-beams. No way do these disintegrate into short pieces…”

Michael Remington, Composite Design Engineer. B.S. Aerospace Engineering, UCLA. Structural Composite and Material Design, Aerojet

“I do agree that the implosions of each WTC building appear to have many more characteristics of a controlled demolition, than not. Significant quantities of thermite present in the rubble is sufficient evidence, alone, to warrant a thorough investigation.”
 
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Scandxer

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John C. Rice, P.E. (ret.) Retired Transportation Engineer. Worked in aerospace defense for Martin Marietta on the Gemini and Prime projects. As a transportation engineer, specialized in traffic signal systems.

“Since September 11 I have collected hundreds of photos and articles that point to 9/11 being an inside job. I want to see the criminals brought to justice.”

Daniel W. Richard, P.E., LS (retired). Graduated from University of Arizona 1950 and worked for various companies (Fluor Corporation, Fisher Contracting, Pan American World Airways Guided Missile Range Department) and also the U.S. government (Federal Aviation Agency, U.S. Forest Service).

“I accepted the government’s conspiracy story as given out by the mainstream media and did not give much, if any, thought to it until a neighbor on March 1, 2006 brought me a story from the Desert Morning News in SLC, Utah.

“It was dated 1-28-06. I contacted the journalist and asked if there were any other stories and she sent me two others. After reading them and finally thinking about it and based on my engineering education and experience, I realized that we have been lied to and that there was a coverup. For instance if the floors pancaked and fell one on the other from the fires, which could not possibly melt and cut the steel, the 47 massive columns over a quarter mile high would still be standing!

“There was no forensic investigation and the steel fell in lengths that could be loaded and trucked to the west coast and shipped to Asia. Also the 9/11 Commission Report did not mention the 47-story WTC 7, which fell the afternoon that the two towers fell in the morning! A sure sign of a false report.

“My opinion is that the 3 WTC buildings fell as a result of planted cutting charges — an inside job. …”

Roland R. Rodriguez, Worked in the aerospace and defense industry for almost 25 years developing, integrating, troubleshooting, and testing complex electronic and software systems.

“It is inconceivable that the World Trade Center buildings collapsed as they did because of fires as the public has been led to believe. This is not just an opinion, but a very well educated guess. Although I studied electrical engineering, Georgia Tech–as most engineering universities–required that I take courses in physics, statics, dynamics, thermodynamics.”

Marc Salesse-Lavergne, Graduated as an Engineer from the Institut Superieur d’Electronique de Paris in 1987 (major in solid state physics and micro-electronics). Electronics engineering for Aerospatiale, then aeronautics engineering for Eurocopter company from 1990 to today.

“From the elements presented so far, I understand the 2 main hypotheses are:

1) WTC towers’ structural damage by the initial impact, followed by softening of this steel and concrete structure from fire exposure, until the upper building weight crashed the lower weakened structure. Since no other case is known of such equivalent buildings being destroyed by fire, then this explanation only holds if the initial damage was large enough. Are you aware of any evaluation of the energy dissipated by the initial impact, and simulations or computations of how much damage it could have caused?

2) Controlled destruction by coordinated explosions all along the fall path. Although most of what is left of the towers have disappeared, explosives traces are no doubt to be found in what remains.”

Dick W. Scar, Experimental Test Engineer, Pratt & Whiney Aircraft ‘65-’68; Powerplant engineer, United Air Lines ‘68-72. Owned and operated family retail business ‘72-04. Now Retired

“Of all the astounding events on Sept. 11, ‘01, I was most started by how the WTC buildings collapsed. I would never have expected that to happen.”

James Edwin Seymour, Mechanical Engineer. In-depth, widely varied technical experience in both aerospace and commercial areas with major accomplishments on many top high-tech projects for Fortune 500 companies. Heavy MIL-STD experience.

“I think 9/11 was an inside job. I’m less certain about the bombs in the buildings. I saw a video on the web showing controlled demolitions. The explosions were huge concussions and louder than the sound the fall made.

“I’m signing this petition because a real investigation needs to be done.”

Mike Strasser, Product Design Consultant. Have worked at NASA Ames. Founded and manage a product design firm in San Francisco.

“There seems to be some very compelling facts that lead me to believe that it’s not a simple terrorist attack that destroyed all three buildings.”

Dr. William F. Stubbeman, 1987 BSE in Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering, Princeton; 1992 medical degree from Columbia University in New York; 2000 began private practice in psychiatry; 2009 2000-present private practice psychiatry in LA, CA

“The results of the peer-reviewed study published in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, 2009, 2, 7-31 contains clear scientific proof that unreacted nanothermite explosive fragments were found in the dust from the world trade center collapse. Methods used for analysis include optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy, spectroscopy, and calorimetry. They witnessed and photographed triggered micro-explosions from the nanothermite fragments. These micro-explosions produced the same heat and force output as laboratory nanothermite. The dust was sampled from four different locations soon after the collapses. One sample was collected about ten minutes after the collapses of WTC buildings 1 & 2. All dust samples produced essentially the same findings. The unreacted explosive fragments can clearly be seen under low-power magnification, as photographs from the paper illustrate. This type of explosive is apparently untraceable, unlike most kinds of demolition materials. Eight different authors from universities and organizations around the world including Denmark, Utah, Indiana, Australia, Berkeley, Dallas contributed to this paper. This kind of science cannot be fudged. After reading this I became convinced that the reason for the clear and undeniable presence of explosive residue in the dust should be thoroughly re-investigated, especially since the NIST & FEMA reports did not even look for or mention these findings.”

Anthony Szamboti, Mechanical Design Engineer with over 20 years experience in the Aerospace and communications industries, where I have designed a large variety of structures required to perform in dynamic environments.

“After watching the twin tower collapses live I wondered to myself where all of the energy came from to cause such rapid collapses. At the time I did not know how the buildings were designed and also heard a few days later about a civil engineering professor saying there was a 30g dynamic load. This was probably Dr. Bazant of Northwestern University. I somewhat accepted this but still wondered. After hearing about Dr. Steven Jones bringing up issues with molten metal in the rubble in early 2006 I decided I should read his paper. I found it on the Internet and after reading it started looking much harder at those collapses myself. Unfortunately, there is little doubt that the collapses were caused by controlled demolitions and it appears the aircraft impacts were causal ruses.”

George Vega, Quality/Manufacturing Engineer with experience in aerospace and defense, telecommunications, and computer chip manufacturing industries. Specialist in statistical quality control and computer aided design and manufacturing.

“The 9/11 building collapses have the appearance of a demolition. The Pentagon has the appearance of a missile strike. I would like to know the truth about why WTC Building 7 collapsed.”

James Vogt, Graduated from Univ of NH in 1979. Design engineer for Raytheon Missile Systems Division. Self-employed as programmer since 1985.

“After 5 semesters of physics in college it is clear to me that these buildings were brought down via controlled demolition.”

Robert R. Walker, 35 years experience in instrumentation supporting structural testing. I worked in aerospace for 28 years testing strength of spacecraft materials. I am still active in material testing and hold US patents for load sensors.

“After viewing the building 7 collapse, I have to say if somebody told me that a demolition expert was reducing building 7 to rubble I would agree. The thermite connection is strong evidence that somebody orchestrated cutting the under-pinnings of building 7 and probably had the twin towers prepared for demolition.”

Christopher Wilder, 30+ years of wide mechanical engineering experience; Consulted with internationally known entities Kaiser Aluminum, Bechtel, Lawrence National Labs, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC), Applied Materials, Intel, NASA, and BOC.

“I concluded early on that the ‘official explanation,’ even before the 9/11 Commission report, did not add up. The first couple of items that I found suspicious were 1) the pulverizing of the concrete and 2) the free fall of the Towers in less than 10 seconds. Since 2001 I have read many books on the subject starting with Painful Questions by Eric Hufschmid, The New Pearl Harbor by David Ray Griffin (I saw him speak in Berkeley a year ago with Peter Phillips) and Towers of Deception by Barrie Zwicker—the latter of which included the CD The Great Conspiracy. From the latter book I agreed with the author (and Richard Gage whom I heard on KPFA today) that there needs to be another, more thorough, investigation of the events of 9/11/2001.

“To add to my list of suspicious items, I saw a public showing of a CD, in 2004, where the focus was on experienced criminal investigators and how they were making the case about the rapid shipment of the steel from the Towers to India and China and that act was ‘destroying evidence at the scene of a crime.’

“I worked at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center from 2001-2005. I was amazed how otherwise very savvy physicists and engineers didn’t want to entertain the thought, or evidence, that the ‘official explanation’ did not add up. They willingly accept the official ‘pancake theory.’ I have my own theory about their willingness to accept the official explanation. Several years ago I came across a term called ‘cognitive dissonance.’ The psychological description goes like this: the term describes an uncomfortable mental tension that arises from results from having two (or more) conflicting thoughts at the same time i.e. ‘The Towers falling was a bad, terrible event’ and ‘My government is here to help me and they couldn’t have had anything to do with the destruction of the Towers.’”

Dr. Frank Wolstencroft, Research in metal deformation (and in particular machining). Industrial experience in the aerospace industry.

“There are too many unanswered questions about 9/11 in order to believe the official version of events. A more thorough investigation is needed to arrive at a more accurate assessment. There is not enough energy contained in jet fuel to explain the total collapse and destruction of the central core. The molten steel found in the basements of the towers needs to be explained scientifically. The collapse of WTC 7 is also very suspicious.”

Brian Wright, Graduated Wayne State University, BSME 1975, several years working as a design engineer in aerospace, product engineer in automotive, and project engineer in biomechanical engineering.

“One does not need to be an engineer to understand that contradictions cannot exist. If the pancake theory is true then we should sure have seen some pancakes, not pulverized concrete and steel. Further, buildings such as WTC 7 do not spontaneously collapse from being hit by debris or from fire.”
 
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Scandxer

Member
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Wow!!!!! Look at those Aerospace Engineer's and their Crazy conspiracy theories!!!!! OMG!!
 

mdulrich

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Hey cfr301, JoeyC, mdulrich, and N_Jay.. (N_jay you're just a troll)

Why are you guys so blind ?

Does it feel good to pat each other on the back?

Does it make you feel Patriotic or something when you battle those mean 'ole 9/11 Truthers on the internet. Lol

Listen to yourselves! Seriously.

Trust me, I was just like you guys. I used to ignore, laugh at or ridicule the "Truthers".

I know first hand how hard imagining your own Government killing 3000 Americans is.

But people are just asking questions about 9/11. Whats wrong with that?

Why is it that if anyone questions 9/11 we are just called conspiracy theorists or crazy?



TIME TO WAKE UP !!



AND ADD 60 MORE "NUTCASES" TO THE LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The difference is I didn't blindly follow the truthers. I watched their videos and read the information and quite frankly I was bothered by what they were saying. However, I looked into the claims and found them to be without merit. They use a lot of half truths, inaccuracies, and bold faced lies to "prove" their theories. Everyone of their claims have been rebutted and shown to be incorrect.

Aerospace engineers would be relavent if we were talking about the planes falling out of the sky, but we are not. And just because you hold a degree doesn't mean you can't be duped. I could waste lots of message space here listing various engineers and their statements proving my side. It just ends up being he said, she said. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe the truth.

I still challenge you to provide a video or audio recording that captures the massive explosions that would have been required to initiate your controlled demolitions. Show me the massive amount of wiring required to control this demolition. This was probably one of, if not the most, covered news events in history. It shouldn't be hard for a truther to find it. We are now 8+ years since 9/11 and this recording has never surfaced. There have been many recordings that show the exact opposite. Until you bring this forward I am done discussing this lunacy.

Mike
 

idontknow82

Member
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Messages
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Location
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Given the near total insanity you two are showing this will be my last post in this thread.

This is too laughable. In the PM you said I was two-faced because I not consistent (in your mind) in my answers in various threads. Here you say the opposite. The truth is you have shown an inability to understand what is written, other than if it was not in total agreement with your brainwashed position, it was all wrong.

Again, a laughable statement. You have said that “Sometimes you have to look beyond the facts”, but your standard response is not to answer any question that requires any rational thought. Maybe sometimes you do have to look beyond the facts, but in this (and just about every other thread) you ALWAYS ignore the facts for your own twisted beliefs.

You are the one proposing you KNOW what I think, so I will leave it to you to read my posts.

Another misdirected answer. Please reread my statement.

That is one, but it applies to almost all conspiracy theories.
Ever notice how the same people tend to believe in that all.

The problem is you (and most of the gullible gang) have not looked at the other side. What supports your preconceived (Brainwashed) position must be fact and nothing else has to be considered.
Let me ask you, how many structural engineers have you talked to about what happened? Have you dared challenged your beliefs to test the rational?

Here we go again with the irrational twisting of facts to fit your beliefs.
I am sure they had no idea they would be so ‘successful’, they just wants to do damage and kill people.

Not true, and does not become true no matter how many time the lying ‘truthers’ repeat it.
More of your silly rationalizations. It was one complex.

Let me understand your (so called) “LOGIC”?
Because the TSC exists, that is your proof that this is a mandatory training film for every LEO in the United States? (Ouch, that hurt)
Of course they need to get training out, some may use this video, some will do their own training, and some will set their own policies.
Of course that has nothing to do with the many irrational objections you and your cohort have posted throughout this thread.

No, you posted a clipping of the video assembled from the clippings of the video shown on the Alex Johns show.
I posted the missing pieces of the Alex Johns show to help others see the context your clippings came from.
You, in posting that video associated yourself with Alex Johns by using him as your source and not even knowing where it came from or what it was part of.
No! You have failed repeatedly!

I don’t know, most of your other positions are not rational. I was just expanding on that line of thinking.
Congratulations, and I am sure we will get there. But until then, I am satisfied with the system we have (and trust it is getting better)

More of your twisted reading of each and every post to fit your thinking.
No one said “totally”, you added that to make your illogic fit.
And no one said we trust then completely, as you do in your continued twisting.
However, we just don’t TOTALLY DISTRUST the “government as you say you do.
(I know, you guys cannot comprehend the possibility of a middle ground. In your minds, a person has to either believe all the crap you believe, or must be a “government boy”.)

Both: We laugh at you and cry for those who have to deal with you in real life.
Couldn't leave it alone could you. Of course you couldn't. NO ONE WANTS YOUR RELIGIOUS " I AM ALWAYS RIGHT ATTITUDE HERE" STYLE CRAP SHOVED DOWN THERE THROAT!!!!!!!!!

IF YOU DON'T AGREE SAY IT AND BE ON YOUR WAY! THE CONSTANT TRYING TO GET A FIGHT AND OR ARGUMENT STARTED IS JUST PLAIN CHILDISH.

AND IF YOU POST A TOPIC ABOUT SOMETHING YOU NEVER TRYED, DON'T TELL EVERYONE THERE WRONG OR STUPID OR WHATEVER CHILDISH WAY TO START A WAR.

TAKE THOSE INSULTS AND OTHER PERSONAL ATTACKS OUTSIDE TOO.

I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING, IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU KNOW EVERYTHING.

LASTLY TAKE YOUR BIAS ATTITUDE OUTSIDE. GIVE THE COMPUTER A BREAK FOR ONCE.
 

greenthumb

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Okay guys, this one has strayed off of the original topic. Closing.....
 
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