Thoughts on the 10 Codes being "phased" out

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dfndr13

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I know this topic is going on in the Scanning Forums, but thought I'd see what the local response is. I think it's a bad idea, personally. The main reason being officer safety. I know, I know, most frequent fliers know the system, however, it also helps cut down on Officer Longwinded's disseretation of the dog at large, while Officer Joe is trying to chase or fighting with someone. I understand why the FED's are choosing to do so, but I think there could be a different answer, such as a National or Universal system.

Here's a link

KSN in Wichita did a story the other night: http://www.ksn.com/news/stories/9051099.html

Matt
 

Buckskinner33

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It could be worse.... They could make you guys start using "Q" signals. Our problem is not so much 10 codes but schmucks using big .50 cent words for a .10 cent question!

Example:
Q: Do you think its going to rain?
A: Essentialy, there may be a shift in the paradigm.

What!? See my problem?
 

FFighter81

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The "10" codes used here and for the most part the entire western half of Kansas are the APCO "10" Codes. APCO (Associated Public Communications Officers) 10 codes are not used to confuse the public or be a big seceret. When I was a police officer and later a deputy, the only people they confused were the rookie officers. After all, Radio Shack hands out a copy of them with the purchase of a new scanner and they are everywhere on the internet.
The reason for the 10 codes is to simplify radio traffic. Instead of a long winded speech, you can rattle off a few 10 codes and have the same effect.
There is some "plain language" used here. Back in the early 90's, there was a very grave mistake issued by a veteran officer. He was on the scene of an injury accident and requested a 10-41, when he meant 10-49. For those of you not associated with the APCO codes used here, a 10-41 is a tow truck and a 10-49 is an Ambulance. Now when an ambulance is needed, you ask for an ambulance in plain language. So sometimes, plain language is for the best. I would sure hate to see the 10 codes go by the way side.

FFighter 81
 
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iamhere300

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Plain Language

For years progressive agencies have been supporting "plain language". It simply makes sense. My department is right on the border between two states, and we operate on each others radio system. Their 10-23 is different from ours, as are many of the codes.

Mutual aid, interoperability, all demand that we need to do anything we can to make a situation involving different departments go as smooth as possible, meaning we need to use plain language.

Some say that you can use plain language during such a situation, but use your 10 codes, q codes, 11 codes, etc during times when you are not using other agencies, but in reality,
anyone who uses 10 codes with any regularity knows that they slip into your conversation
regardless, and in a high stress situation, you are going to do with what you are familiar with.

For the past 6 years I have mandated plain language with my department.

Remember also, none of those codes were meant for secrecy, they were meant for
clarity and brevity, and started back in the day of simplex low band in the static comms.

Anyways, it is NIMS, the followup to ICS that is requiring the use of plain language.
 

dfndr13

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iamhere300 said:
My department is right on the border between two states, and we operate on each others radio system. Their 10-23 is different from ours, as are many of the codes.

I understand the dilema in this situation, howver, if the majority of agencies have and use some sort of 10 Codes, whether it be APCO or some locally adopted 10 code series, why not use a universal system? The brevity of the conversation will still be there and everyone, no matter where you go, will be on the same page. I know, I'm beating a dead horse as this is a MUST change, but just thought I'd see what others thought.

Matt
 

Buckskinner33

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jhooten said:
10 codes forever, no wait CW forever, nevermind SPARK forever!

It seems to me I have heard this argument before.

HE HE ... Old arguments never die... they just find sombody else who will listen to them!
 

jhooten

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Confusion, An officer who has been using the same set of codes for ten years is now expected to learn a new set and remeber them under the hectic conditions which rule the day in a "crisis". Without thinking he reverts to the set of codes he has known since the acadamy.

"I need and ambulance now" leaves no doubt.
Or "send me a ten fifty, oh crap hold one while I get out my 10 code list and flashlight so I can look it up, three."
Dispatch replies "Do you need some one to block the road?"
"hold on, (pulls out list and flashlight again) I looked at the wrong line, how about a ten fifty two?"
"ten four I'll notify EMS."

(the above is based on an actual incident. Minor details have been changed just incase the officer (Lt.) in question may be a member of the board) However in defence of said officer(Lt.) he had only been with us a couple months and the department he came frome used a different set of codes.
 

Buckskinner33

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dfndr13 said:
I understand the dilema in this situation, howver, if the majority of agencies have and use some sort of 10 Codes, whether it be APCO or some locally adopted 10 code series, why not use a universal system? The brevity of the conversation will still be there and everyone, no matter where you go, will be on the same page. I know, I'm beating a dead horse as this is a MUST change, but just thought I'd see what others thought.

Matt

Matt I see your point, but what I find unusal over the whole topic is, why is this now all of a sudden a big issue? Is it because most states are going to a state wide system?

Heres my point: When ever I listen to mutiple agencies working together they are not using 10 codes. well except the standard 10-4 and a few others but it just doesnt seem to me to be a big issue.

I guess if I worked in that same line as you do, then maybe I would feel different about it.
 

KAA951

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Last night a Topeka PD dispatcher described a pedestrian on the interstate as FUBAR... One of the officers asked if that was part of the new "Plain Language" they were going to switch to!
 

iamhere300

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Buckskinner33 said:
Matt I see your point, but what I find unusal over the whole topic is, why is this now all of a sudden a big issue? Is it because most states are going to a state wide system?

Heres my point: When ever I listen to mutiple agencies working together they are not using 10 codes. well except the standard 10-4 and a few others but it just doesnt seem to me to be a big issue.

I guess if I worked in that same line as you do, then maybe I would feel different about it.


The biggest reason is that NIMS (National Incident Management System) the replacement
for ICS, implementation is now being required for federal grants, and plain language
is a part of NIMS
 

Buckskinner33

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iamhere300 said:
The biggest reason is that NIMS (National Incident Management System) the replacement
for ICS, implementation is now being required for federal grants, and plain language
is a part of NIMS

Ah, I see. I was wondering if that may have been the case. The things we will do for money!
My next question is how much money is avaiable?
 

Buckskinner33

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TTFD238 said:
Last night a Topeka PD dispatcher described a pedestrian on the interstate as FUBAR... One of the officers asked if that was part of the new "Plain Language" they were going to switch to!
I'm just gald she wasn't describing a patiant from an accident. You as a Fire Fighter would have to respond with SNAFU
 

iamhere300

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Buckskinner33 said:
Ah, I see. I was wondering if that may have been the case. The things we will do for money!
My next question is how much money is avaiable?


Literally, hundreds of millions. Billions actually, or close.

Any of the federal public safety grants is now requiring this,
including the fire grants.
 

Buckskinner33

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iamhere300 said:
Literally, hundreds of millions. Billions actually, or close.

Any of the federal public safety grants is now requiring this,
including the fire grants.

And yet My Insurance rates still climb to an un-godly amount. This may be the ticket to get new radios for our department.
 
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