Thunder Bay police help PLEASE !

[wrees]

Any help identifying tbay police system would be greatly appreciated.. I have identified 3 CC's that broadcast all the time and another 13 that i suspect are either P25 or provoice. I can't seem to get the LCN numbers down correct and don't know how many sites are in the system. 2 of the CC's come up on my BCD396T as SID:01 and it seems like 2 voice channels come active at the same time when they talk, however all i hear is digital noise and no luck tracking due to maybe the incorrect LCN's. The 3rd data channel seems to be a totally seperate and independant system. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Note I have been in radio for many years but have been away for about 10 yrs now since all these new developments in trunking.

 

[mciupa]

There is a method that would involve using another scanner (can be non-trunking but must have 800 MHz reception) in conjunction with your 396T

Start with the first channel in the Edacs bank of your 396 for LCN1, put a frequency in there, then hit 'SEARCH'.
Now make sure you have that same frequency keyed into the other scanner, and leave that scanner on that frequency.
If the 396 doesn't mirror the same audio as the other non-trunk scanner, then zero-out LCN1, and try that same frequency in LCN2. So-on and so-on, until you find its right place
After you find its correct LCN slot, zero-out that LCN, and move onto the next frequency, taking notes of the slot-assignments, as you progress. When you have all the slots, its time to put the data-channel in its correct slot.
If you have more than one LCN that isn't figured out, wait for the data channel to switch to another LCN, then put the former data-channel frequency into one of the unknown LCN slots. Sit your non-trunk 800Mhz scanner on to that frequency, and wait for it to come alive. If both scanners mirror the same audio, you've got it.

 

[wrees]

thanks, i will try that method. but 1 thing is still unclear, Does the data channel have to be LCN 1 or can it also have a random LCN assignment? The data channels, of which there are 3 never changes or goes away. I think I am dealing with 3 seperate systems here for some reason or maybe the 3 data channels have to be programmed into the same system for some reason.. If I start with 16 frequencies and just pick any one of them even if it is not a data channel and plug it into LCN 1 should i hear audio if it is the right slot and i have no data channel programmed ?

 

[wrees]

By tyhe way, i do sometimes get the AFS information come up on my display from random channels with all 16 programmed in there. It only seems to happen very randomly, maybe 1 out of every 100 calls.. Thanks again..

 

[mikewazowski]

It would appear that you've got 3 separate tower sites each broadcasting a control channel.

You'll have to figure out what frequencies go with each tower so you can separate them out into distinct systems. Each tower will have one control frequency and a bunch of frequencies.

The control channel can be on any LCN.

You'll have to run a utility such as etrunk to figure out the LCN order.

Unfortunately, I would guess that Thunder Bay PS is running AEGIS or Provoice digital modulation on their talkgroups so you won't be able to listen to them.

Do you hear any analog activity at all on the system? If not, then you would just be wasting your time trying to figure out the LCN's since you've probably got no chance of listening to them.

 

[wrees]

Thanks Mike.. I ran a bandscope utility from ARC396pro all afternoon and recorded the results. I seperated the systems in 3 seperate groups based on the signal strength and discovered that 1 tower is for SID:01, a second tower for SID:01 which seems to be a simulcast of the first and then a final system shows up as SID:02. No data for call ID's present at all. I discovered 1 data channel and 4 voice channels per system with 1 system having 5 voice channels. There is no analog activity on any of the 16 frequencies. I know the radios in use are M/A-Com P7150ip. I programmed the data channel as LCN 28 and then picked 1 frequency and started it as LCN1 right up to LCN27. No luck at all. I heard nothing with all attempts and then attempted both other systems, still no luck. I am beginning to suspect EDACS sk, i think that is what they call it and then provoice for the system.. Oh well I attempted. I will also try etrunk at some point but I think i am out of luck.. thanks again for your help. Here are the frequencies if somebody else in Thunder Bay is interested and wants to attempt.
System 01 - 866.1250 (cc), 866.3750, 866.6250, 866.8750, 867.1250.
System 02 - 866.0375 (cc), 866.2875, 866.5375, 866.7875, 867.0375.
System 01 (seems simulcast) - 866.2375 (cc), 866.4875, 866.7375, 866.9875, 867.2375.

There is a fifth frequency of 866.7000 that has the same signal strength as the others on system 01 simulcast but it does not seem to be mirrored with any other frequency. strange system.. good luck to all and hopefully somebody can have more luck than I did.

 

[mikewazowski]

I would suggest putting the control channel in as LCN1 and then each frequency after that as LCN2 through LCN 5 in ascending order.

Do that for each system making sure that you create a new system every time.

Make sure you have ID Search mode turned on.

Then start up scan and see what happens.

You should see the scanner stop on the control channel. If there's a talkgroup active, then you'll see the scanner switch to a voice channel. If nothing's there then the lcn order might be wrong.

Unfortunately, you'll need one of the newer scanners with control channel output or Unitrunker/Etrunk to figure things out easier.

If you want to verify whether the voice is P25, just program in the frequencies as conventional and see if you hear anything.