Tinker system

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HogDriver

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Does anyone have the capability of monitoring the actual voice channels for the Tinker system with "special" software? I have a suspicion the ACW MAINT is on this system but are using something similar to ProVoice for encryption.

When I monitor these freqs, it sometimes stops on one but I hear nothing. ACW disappeared when the trunked system came online and the tower for the new system is located where the old system was set up.
 
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screamin72

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DSDPlus can do P-25 Phase 1 but there is no trunking system information in RR database. So I cannot help you on that aspect.Can you provide me TAFB's frequencies?

United States Air Force (BEE00-157) Trunked Radio System does P25

This link shows no trunking info but UHF duplex and base to mobile, and AM military aviation.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=1767

Tinker Air Force Base Oklahoma County (OK) - The RadioReference Wiki

United States Air Force (BEE00-157) Unknown Talkgroups by Site - The RadioReference Wiki
That link says TAFB is on Site 011.

Another point is we must not confuse encryption with digital voice because encryption sounds way diferent and nothing out there that we know of has encryption capability even with a key. Let alone decoding encrypted signals can land a person in Oklahoma County Detention Center if caught (in Oklahoma County). I've heard it on Provoice and its aweful I had to lock it out.
 
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HogDriver

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This is what I am asking...if you program the 5 voice channel freqs and scan them, and it happens to stop on one that is being used, but there is no audio, is there something out there that can at least determine if there is voice traffic going on. It is similar to listening to a system that has been rebranded but the trunking table is not correct.

When scanning the system normally, I pick up everything, though it is encrypted. But it never stops on a "dead" channel like it does when you scan the VC's themselves. So unless you do that, you would never know that there are other talk groups using it because it doesn't stop on it.

My radio is digital so that is not an issue.
 

nd5y

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What kind of scanner are you using? Does the display show ENC or DAT when you aren't hearing anything?

Do you have a discriminator tapped scanner or one that puts out data so that you can run Unitrunker or Pro96Com? That will show you all activity on a P25 trunked system. You would be able to tell if what you were "not hearing" was encrypted voice or some type of non-voice data.

I have not had the opportunity to run DSD on an encrypted P25 trunked voice channel so I don't know what it would show.
 
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screamin72

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do you have 407.7625 plugged in? Do you know it's LCN? Unitrunker picked up on the trunking system correctly but it missed 407.7625. It is listed https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3593
Now that I found it and some talk groups not all are known. I did notice unitrunker wasn't recieveing the full conversation. probably because of the missing frequency and no lcn for it. Maybe I should restart the signal radio and se if it is found and better decodes. I really want to help but I am new to trunking.

Edit. Well hmmm as I listen in and watch DSDPlus decode the P25 Phase 1 voice It mutes the other party because it is encrypted. Might be why you're not hearing it is your equipment may be muting the encrypted message as well. Don't know how your scanner works but I am guessing encryption gets muted. Probably need to recheck the manual on it?
 
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screamin72

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No scanner can decode EDACS Provoice or Aegis used in selected areas such as San Antonio and some others.

Tinker comms use half digital voice (ProVoice) and AEGIS encryption. If two people are on the radio one is transmitting on ProVoice digital and the other replies on AEGIS encryption. I noticed the same symptoms you have but I use UniTrunker. I am sorry unless someone has found a way to decode encryption like that, you won't be able to pick up much out of Tinker. That's the military for you. You could try to buy a radio they use and get the whole thing but I highly think they'll sell them to the public and if they do you won't get tinker's encryption key to. Those radios log into the radio system if rejected by the system you get diddly.
 

plaws

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screamin72

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screamin72

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This particular system at Tinker AFB is hard to monitor because only half of it is encrypted and the other half is digital voice.

For example:
Radio A calls Radio B on digital voice
Radio B replies to Radio A encrypted

Exclusive being the word to watch for. Meaning it has it's own method.

Not sure if the base commander at Tinker AFB made that decision.

The trunking part APCO P25 works the same except how voice is modulated.
 
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nd5y

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From what you are describing it sounds likely that either the radios have user selectable encryption and the users have not been instructed keep the switch either on O or Ø at all times unless they are told to change it, or there is a dispatch console that has encryption set to the opposite of all other users on the talkgroup. I have seen both situations on other systems.

"APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive" only means it is a pure P25 system with no analog capability. It doesn't make it hard to monitor and has nothing to do with talkgroups or individual radios being encrypted or clear.
 

HogDriver

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I can hear the encrypted "garble" when monitoring. I just noticed that when I listen to the actual VC freqs, it sometimes stops on one but I hear nothing, so I figured it was a different dorm of encryption, like ProVoice, that was being used.
 
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screamin72

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Tinker AFB has it's own configuration Yes its APCO P25 but not the same configuration as all of them. They may be mixed as well. some departments use P25 some use ProVoice Some encrypted. Tibnker AFB's encryption is why it's hard to monitor. Noone can make any sense out of garble.

HogDiver, yes I experience the same stop on some talkgroups and unitrunker has no clue what service it is. doesn't say "ana" "digi" nor "enc" it just has a dash. It must be some sort of something new the military has.
 

mam1081

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Sorry - there is no ProVoice on a P25 CAI system...

I have seen "data channels" (not the control channel) have grants on the Tinker P25 system - perhaps that's what you are finding and trying to decode (without success). In P25 trunked (or conventional) systems, you can send SMS messages, GPS positions, status messages, etc - all in the P25 standard.
 
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screamin72

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That's right because I used DSD+ on it in automatic mode and it says P-25 with a NAC code. Makes sense other types of services use it we can't decode. At least I think we can't decode.
 
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screamin72

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UPDATE

I have come to the conclusion of we don't have the right band plan. Unitrunker will show on a talk group but not tune to a frequency (yes both radios are running and listen is enabled all protocols have a X in in the box by them). RR SID 3593. This is normal behavior for Unitrunker. It will tune to a frerquency only if it is in the band plan.

Will someone look at it and help figure out the right band plan?
 

nd5y

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Last week I was able to run Unitrunker on that system for a while during a band opening. I did not see anything unusual about it. I noticed several encrypted talkgroups and several i-calls. The i-calls may have been non-voice data. If there is a lot of that going on then you will see activity but not hear anything.

You don't need to enter a custom band plan for Unitrunker to track P25 trunked systems. The band plan is transmitted over the control channel. You can even delete all the band plans and Unitrunker will repopulate them.
 

SCPD

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Tom is right. Under the SVC column you will see a single digit number for the call priority. Calls prefixed by the letter "P" are "protected" - P25 speak for encryption.

If you see a "-" under the SVC column, you missed the call grant due to poor decoding.

DSD will tell you what kind of encryption they run by displaying the ALGID (encryption algorithm) and KEYID (current key).
 
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screamin72

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Then that solves why the OP and myself get partial transmissions. To me that's hard to monitor. It is interesting to find out what can be heard. I'll just leave Tinker AFB alone. Just to think it was one of my dad's first TDY bases back in the 70's. Man this bites.
 
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