Toledo & Lucas County New Digital 800 System News

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WTFD10

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http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050223/NEWS33/502230343

Article published Wednesday, February 23, 2005

Safety officials press for new radio system


Lucas County law enforcement and fire chiefs are turning up the pressure on Toledo and county officials to commit to buying a countywide radio communications system expected to cost more than $30 million.
A panel of safety officials, including Sheriff James Telb, Toledo Safety Director Joe Walter, and Toledo fire Chief Michael Bell, yesterday told a Toledo City Council joint committee that a unified radio system is a high priority of county emergency response officials.

Mr. Walter said the county and city have accumulated $12.9 million toward the $15.4 million needed to set up the infrastructure for a new radio system. Most of that money is from federal grants. It was not clear where the remaining $2.5 million would come from.

A second phase, likely to cost $15 million more, would pay for the hand-held and vehicle radio units.

Mr. Walter said the grants will start to lapse if they aren't spent soon. He said if the city commits an existing $5 million Homeland Security grant to the 800-mhz radio system, it has a good chance of landing another $5 million grant.

A city-county task force received two bids on a radio system last year, according to Mike Koontz, a private consultant who has been hired as project coordinator for the communications system.

He said M/A-COM Inc. proposed a system costing about $43 million, and Motorola proposed a system costing about $31 million. He said the committee is considering the Motorola proposal because of the cost, because the city uses Motorolas, and because of the reliability of the Motorola system.

Toledo's police and firefighters share an existing 800-mhz radio system, which was described yesterday as "obsolete" and prone to failure.

The sheriff's office and the suburban fire and police departments use UHF and VHF systems, Mr. Koontz said.

He said a new system would ensure that the entire county is covered, and that every official in the network is able to talk to one another.

He said the lack of "inter-operability" - the ability of separate agencies to communicate with one another - hindered efforts to save lives in the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York City.

"Probably one of the biggest concerns is people not being able to communicate with each other in buildings," Mr. Koontz said.
 

Tophtoh

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RE:

I think it would be a waste of money for Lucas County. Is it going to be a sub-system of MARCS? Or a separate system? 9/11 was a terrible tragedy, but it annoys me how everyone bases everything around 9/11. Instead of saying, "the lack of "inter-operability" - the ability of separate agencies to communicate with one another - hindered efforts to save lives in the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York City". Just saying Lucas County's radio system sucks. We need to update to protect our public safety personal.
 
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Toledo / Lucas County wasting Tax $ on radio system

So, we have a system that is not yet 10 years old and it's obsolete? As far as interoperability, ALL City of Toledo radios have one common Talkgroup, so they are smoking something. In addition, all law enforcement in Lucas County should be able to talk on 460.400 MHz, so they are lying to us about needing a new system. Also, you know the extra $2.5 million dollars is coming out of my taxes and the other $5 million that they'll have in cost overruns.

Also, this $30 million does NOT include mobile and portable radios - so what the h*ll does it include? 5 tower and 2 dozen transmitters? Also, isn't the audio 'quality' of 'digital' about half as good as analog - if you compare it to cellphones? So, we pay $30million for base stations, and then another $15 million for portables and mobile radios, then how much for programming? Another thing, why such a huge difference in price? It tells me somebody is 'on the cheap' to get a system installed with dead spots somewhere in the county - which would be a disservice.

I hope we can get some more facts on this new proposed waste of taxpayer money.
 

rdale

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"So, we have a system that is not yet 10 years old and it's obsolete?"

It's more than 10 - but in any case fighting this battle will lead you nowhere. The sales reps say 'digital = only way to go' so there's nothing you can do that will convince people otherwise.

Read: Monroe Co.

- Rob
 

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Cannot agree with you more. We need one frequency for all law. Sheriff use LERN to talk to each other and OSP, they seem to do just fine. If you think about it Toledo has a pretty advanced system considering sheriff’s and fire are from the 70’s. I don't see why someone doesn't invent a mini repeater that goes in all radios, and then we would have no need for towers. I have no idea if this would actually be possible, but it'd be a good invention. Or just boost the power of the repeaters. The sheriff's are all at 70 now, boost them to 100. What's the legal wattage for a repeater? Thanks
 

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Monitoring it. I know a scanner is not going to perform like a radio dedicated to the repeater. But, I say this because when I was in Monroe about two weeks ago I could hardly hear what was being said on sheriff disp’s TG. MARCS is a much better system it seems.
 

colheli

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Re: Toledo / Lucas County wasting Tax $ on radio system

johnnyelectron said:
So, we have a system that is not yet 10 years old and it's obsolete?

If it's Motorola, it would not surprise me at all. That's what they do. When sales start to slump, they quit making parts for the "older" equipment available. If you can't repair what you have, then you need to buy new...........sales go back up. Avionics manufacturers do the same thing. When they want to push a new product line, they just "obsolete" the parts required to repair the old product line. You have to have a VHF radio, and you can't fix the one you have, so you buy a new one. If they don't 'obsolete" the parts, then they start charging you $900.00 for a transistor that they know goes bad all the time. You get tired of paying $900.00 a pop, to have your radio fixed, and you buy their new $5,000 radio. It's rotten to the core, but it appears that it is beoming a stanadard business practice in a lot of industries.
 

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Re: RE:

Tophtoh said:
Monitoring it. I know a scanner is not going to perform like a radio dedicated to the repeater. But, I say this because when I was in Monroe about two weeks ago I could hardly hear what was being said on sheriff disp’s TG. MARCS is a much better system it seems.

I'll admit I was skeptical about the digital system but compared to their VHF fire system, it's a definite improvement. I was also very impressed with the paging simulcast system as they were testing it yesterday.

My department depends on both Monroe County and Toledo for mutual aid. We currently use multiple radios and cell phones to communicate. The ability to do this from one radio has me sold on this new system IF it is built to the manufacturer's (God I hope it's Motorola and not M/A COM :wink: ) specifications.
 

rdale

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Monroe Co

"I know a scanner is not going to perform like a radio dedicated to the repeater."

You are VERY correct. Remember none of the current digital scanners were developed for CQPSK. It was something added in but never part of the initial drawing board...

I had my Pro96 next to one of Monroe Co's portables last week and there was a BIG difference. Emphasis on BIG. And I'm not talking looks (although the yellow "water resistant" is pretty chic.) It'll be interesting to see how the BCD396T does now that the manufacturers are able to test more with CQPSK systems.

- Rob
 

Tophtoh

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This is going to sound stupid, but this is part of the reason I like being in this group. "Get back in your own state", you don't even know the person, and it's like we're all friends in a way. OK, back on subject, I have to say I was very impressed with the quality of Monroe County's patch with their new PL. Besides the different sound when she lets go of the PTT you wouldn't know any different. Also, do the tones go over the 800 system as well? Cause I know in Toledo they don't have the capability to make tones for different stations. Every station has one tone.
 

16b

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Mr. Walter said the grants will start to lapse if they aren't spent soon. He said if the city commits an existing $5 million Homeland Security grant to the 800-mhz radio system, it has a good chance of landing another $5 million grant.
So, they spend money to get more money? I wish I could do that :D
 

jbstahr

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16b said:
Mr. Walter said the grants will start to lapse if they aren't spent soon. He said if the city commits an existing $5 million Homeland Security grant to the 800-mhz radio system, it has a good chance of landing another $5 million grant.
So, they spend money to get more money? I wish I could do that :D

Gotta love a system where you are rewarded for being fiscally irresponsible. :shock:
 

rdale

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"Rob get back in your own state"

I'm from Toledo, and still in Toledo at least once or twice a month so still qualify to chat down here ;>
 

rdale

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Monroe Co

Could I suggest the Monroe Co talk go in the Monroe Co forum ;> ?

"Besides the different sound when she lets go of the PTT you wouldn't know any different. Also, do the tones go over the 800 system as well"

The 800 patch for fire is H O R R I B L E!!! Since they don't use a PL it is literally unmonitorable. I hear fire calls from Orion Township, medical from somewhere west of Jackson, fire from Oakland Co, etc. And the sound for the distant transmissions is so garbled because the analog->digital transmission fails.

When Monroe Co dispatches they do not use tones on the 800 side since nobody monitors the tones on 800. Very few agencies nationwide tone on the 800, usually they have a separate (often VHF) freq just for the pagers / Z-Tron / etc.
 
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