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Tone after dispatch

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kyparamedic

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On a neighboring EDACS system, there are 2 very fast tones that sound as soon as the dispatcher releases the mic. What is this? You only hear this when dispatch talks. I've heard something very similar on both Motorola trunked and conventional systems.

Thanks.
 

ROOFLIFECO

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I've never heard of that personally, but it sounds like it could be some kind of signaling, which basically sends radio ID information when keyed up.

Motorola does have quite a few of these formats. MODAT, MDC1200, and GE Star are a couple that come to mind right now.

There used to be a website with all of the signaling sounds that I will look for and post if I can find it.
 

bauker

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EIA Tones?

Could they be the tones used to key and unkey a remote? It could be some kind of control tones related to the console signaling to begin or end the transmission, or to change channels. Maybe the EDACS system is patched to something else.
 

jparks29

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I'm betting it's tone signalling from the console not being muted before the tower spits it out....
 

kyparamedic

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I've attached the file (sound1.zip), although I didn't notice it today. It's only on dispatch's end.

The second one (clicks.zip) is what I hear on a nearby Smartnet system. Those clicks follow both dispatch and field personnel.

Thanks.
 

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jparks29

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kyparamedic said:
I've attached the file (sound1.zip), although I didn't notice it today. It's only on dispatch's end.

The second one (clicks.zip) is what I hear on a nearby Smartnet system. Those clicks follow both dispatch and field personnel.

Thanks.
Control tones.
 

kyparamedic

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Ok. I kind of understand control tones, but I didn't realize they would be used or needed on a trunking system? I figured the technology is advanced enough that audible tones wouldn't be needed. I no longer hear the tones on the EDACS system. So those clicks on the Smartnet system are also control tones? Why do they follow both field units and dispatch?

Thanks.
 

dcr_inc

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The control tones are being heard because there is thru console repeat turned on somewhere in the dispatch center.. this is usually heard when a "patch" to conventional frequencies is being used.
 

DiGiTaLD

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Voting

kyparamedic said:
Ok. I kind of understand control tones, but I didn't realize they would be used or needed on a trunking system? I figured the technology is advanced enough that audible tones wouldn't be needed.
Control tones are in many systems used on the wireline circuits between the consoles and the system controller. Ideally they should be filtered out, but sometimes bits and pieces do make it on the air. The first sound you posted are definitely control tones.
kyparamedic said:
So those clicks on the Smartnet system are also control tones? Why do they follow both field units and dispatch?
The clicks are not control tones. Those are indicative of voting being used on the system. This means multiple receivers for each input channel on a trunked system, and the subscriber radios' signal is voted for best signal-to-noise ratio through each site, with the best signal-to-noise radio input signal being repeated on the transmit side. This system is either a Smartnet simulcast system, or a single transmitter site Smartnet system with multiple remote receivers. You should only be hearing those at the end of a radio users' transmission, not when a console that is hardwired into the system unkeys. It is possible that there are dispatch users on subscriber radios set-up in a base station fashion, but they are still subscribers radios and subject to the same input channel voting as the mobiles and portables being used in the field. Wireline console users are not subject to input channel signal-to-noise ratio multiple site voting because they are hardwired directly into the system and do not use an RF input channel.

Check out this page and this page for a brief explanation of voting and a good description of the clicks you are hearing.
 
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kyparamedic

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Thanks for the info and the links! Yes, it is a Smarnet simulcast system. There are multiple public safety dispatch centers on this system and all at different locations. Would all of them be hardwired into the system? Would they have to be in order to pre-empt other users, read user ID's, and reset emergency activations? I know they can do this. I'll have to listen to some of the other agencies to see if the clicks appear after their dispatcher unkeys.
 

DiGiTaLD

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kyparamedic said:
Would all of them be hardwired into the system?
Not necessarily, no. Just to run a radio to dispatch from, they wouldn't have to be. There are many dispatching configurations on trunked systems that are nothing more than a subscriber radio set up as a base with a beam antenna pointed at one of the systems' sites, or worse, a mag-mount mobile antenna stuck on top of a refrigerator! For more functionality, yes, they would be hardwired, depending on what they need to do. It is usually done over leased-line, sometimes telephone circuits, sometimes T1 or other data lines.
kyparamedic said:
Would they have to be in order to pre-empt other users, read user ID's, and reset emergency activations?
To preempt, reset, patch, and other extended functions, almost certainly yes. Reading radio IDs is possible right from the control channel, which is why its also possible to do it with Unitrunker and other control channel decoding software out there.
 

ocguard

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DiGiTaLD said:
Reading radio IDs is possible right from the control channel, which is why its also possible to do it with Unitrunker and other control channel decoding software out there.
In fact, many high-end suscriber units can be configured to display unit IDs. Many can even reference an alias list in the radio to display a text radio ID.
 

kyparamedic

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Ok. I had just noticed on the Smartnet system that I've used that many of the radios don't show any type of ID when someone talks. A few of the others will display some type of ID number that looks to be 9 or 10 digits long but it only displays for a split second so it's of no use. On our EDACS system we always see the 6-digit ID number when someone talks. We used to have aliases but took those out because when radios were reassigned, they no longer corresponded to the person. Now the last 3 or 4 digits on the radio ID is the badge or unit number.
 
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