Tone Vs Tone Squelch

[Stylishxone767]

I have been looking around on the forums to understand this since im new to the game. It was explained like this by a user

"Tone = Transmit PL with carrier squelch (no tone) receive

Tone Squelch = Transmit and receive PL tone"

My question is, are there many repeaters that use a a different PL code between receive and transmit? I have been looking at the repeaters listed and I dont see any that show that. I programmed my radio to receive the same PL code as is required to transmit to the repeater. Should I have any issues? It seemed to work because when I transmitted the repeater transmitted its FCC call sign back to me. This may seem like obvious questions but this is my first radio so bear with me.

 

[W8VFD]

My question is, are there many repeaters that use a a different PL code between receive and transmit?

It's at the discretion of who operates the repeater, I've seen people run "split PL" on both ham radio repeaters and public safety systems, the reasons can vary from user to user.

 

[N4GIX]

I usually run my receiver CSQ so I don't have to worry about monitoring to see if the repeater is in use already.

 

[WA0CBW]

You may also find that some repeaters require a tone to access but don't transmit a tone. For those repeaters you need to change to carrier squelch on your radio (i.e. no tone).
BB

 

[SCPD]

You may also find that some repeaters require a tone to access but don't transmit a tone. For those repeaters you need to change to carrier squelch on your radio (i.e. no tone).
BB

I've run into this on a couple of occasions and it places some users who might be in a noisy area requiring tone squelch at a disadvantage.

I don't see any logic to it at all and find it unusual and inconvenient.

The only thing I could think of is that the repeater is made from a couple of old mobile radios(GE MASTR II) or the like, with an external PL tone board wired into the receiver but not the transmitter. I'd kind of think that most of those make shift repeaters have gone by the wayside in the past 30 years but maybe not.

 

[N4GIX]

All of the 2m/70cm analog repeaters in northwest Indiana use 131.8 in and out. It sure makes area wide programming so much simpler!

 

[n5ims]

Another reason to only run "tone" and not "tone squelch" (in other words send the tone from your radio, but not require one from the repeater) is that several repeaters that normally have tone on both send and receive, drop the tone during severe weather nets (like SkyWarn nets) to allow folks with old radios and those in bad locations where tones may not be reliable to participate. If you require tones on both transmit and receive you may not hear those nets.

My general rule is to send the tone, but not require it on receive UNLESS there's a real reason to have it on receive. This will allow you to use your local repeater without issues regardless of mode it happens to be in. It will also allow you to hear those distant stations that may not use your local repeater's tone when conditions are right for them to be rolling in. For the few channels where you may have interference (a nearby repeater on the same frequency or a leaky CATV signal causing noise on that frequency) and you NEED to restrict your reception to just your local repeater than set it for tone on both send and receive (perhaps programming another channel with the same frequencies but no receive tone, just incase).

 

[SCPD]

Another reason to only run "tone" and not "tone squelch" (in other words send the tone from your radio, but not require one from the repeater) is that several repeaters that normally have tone on both send and receive, drop the tone during severe weather nets (like SkyWarn nets) to allow folks with old radios and those in bad locations where tones may not be reliable to participate. If you require tones on both transmit and receive you may not hear those nets.

My general rule is to send the tone, but not require it on receive UNLESS there's a real reason to have it on receive. This will allow you to use your local repeater without issues regardless of mode it happens to be in. It will also allow you to hear those distant stations that may not use your local repeater's tone when conditions are right for them to be rolling in. For the few channels where you may have interference (a nearby repeater on the same frequency or a leaky CATV signal causing noise on that frequency) and you NEED to restrict your reception to just your local repeater than set it for tone on both send and receive (perhaps programming another channel with the same frequencies but no receive tone, just incase).

Yes thanks, I understand the work arounds, and understand the tone requirement being shut off on the input for people with older portables without tone capabilities especially during an event.

I just don't get why anyone would not program a modern repeater to transmit a tone all the time. Makes no sense.

For the few times that any distant stations roll in, I'd rather program an open channel for that than for a repeater that I frequent.

 

[SCPD]

Two reasons I use decode

1. When I'm listening to a ham repeater that is mixed mode. That way I don't hear the digital side.
2. When I've set up a link. I like to have one side of the link some oddball inverted dpl that there's no chance someone's gonna open up the link receive.

 

[junkdr]

A tone on the repeater output would not prevent anyone from receiving the repeater in carrier squelch.

 

[902]

Long time repeater owner here.

I've done different tones on transmit and receive before.

While everyone has their unique reasons, mine was to reduce jamming and eliminate some nuisance users. Yes, I said "nuisance" users. My repeaters are privately owned, but I keep them open... mostly. Historically, when someone monopolizes the repeater, I've given them the option of paying for upkeep (I had site rental and an autopatch telephone bill), contributing to planned improvements, or inviting them to leave. Before anyone gets up in arms about that, it's a repeater I out-of-pocketed to build, put up, and run, and there was no club. When the antennas are up, the coax is run, and the cover is locked on the cabinet, a repeater can end up costing whomever is running it over $10,000 (it could also be more or less expensive... you usually get what you pay for out of a repeater). It was essentially a benevolent autocracy.

So, in my case, I used a DPL as an input and a PL as an output. It worked well and the situation ultimately resolved. Then I changed everything back. I know other guys who didn't use the standard offset, others who used LTR controllers, and so on. Only certain kinds of equipment could do those configurations, and it's a limiting factor.

Odd people aren't problems everywhere (and neither are odd repeater owners), so let's say you're "normal." If you have a mixing product with the same CTCSS as your receiver and you're part of a band plan where your output has been specified to be a certain tone, or your transmitter is part of the mix, you might think about changing the input tone as a quick fix. It won't solve the problem, but it will stop the repeater from hanging in transmit.

Some repeaters break up tones for functions. For example, the repeater always transmits 141.3 Hz. You can transmit with 141.3 Hz for basic operation. You can turn a preamp on if you transmit in 127.3 Hz. If you transmit in 156.7 Hz, you can turn on the 10 meter link transmitter. If you transmit in 77.0 Hz, you can use the autopatch.

And, some repeater systems have different tones to access different receivers or repeaters. Say all of the repeaters are transmitting the same output tone, but 141.3 brings up the repeater in town. 156.7 brings up the repeater across town. 192.8 brings up the repeater on the mountain. Get it? Some public safety agencies actually operate this way.

Using a different tone might even be in response to someone's voice falsing certain functions. For example, my wife's voice doesn't seem to work well with one particular tone and she cuts out of the receiver if we use it.

So, it could be for lots of reasons.