Torrington PD unhappy with Kenwood NexEdge

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Placid1

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Well they are not using encryption anymore. Havent for a long time so just wondered but looks like will just have to wait and see.
 

Dude111

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Good im glad!!!

Important radio communications like this WHERE RELIABILITY IS NEEDED,analogue should be used!!
 

hitechRadio

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I see and hear on all the forums posts about interoperability, and that this can't talk to that.

ANALOG does not do one damn bit of good if the agencies are not on the same BAND.
If your on a different mode or band your gonna have to have a patch.

There are many advantages of going digital, analog is primarily becoming a way of interop on the same BAND.

Every digital system Nexedge, TRBO, P25, ect...has its pro's and cons. But one thing is for sure that P25 is the defacto mode of DIGITAL interoperability, but still does not mean jack if you not on the same BAND.

I wont get into the argument on this digital mode sounds better than this mode debait, I have heard them all, and my opinion they sounded the same, of course that is, if the agency keeps the firmware up to date on equipment. Every vendor offering different digital modes, there audio has gotten better and better with progressive firmware releases.

MY solution is that there be a federally mandated band and mode for public saftey. IMO that would be 700 and 800Mhz and P25 for the Mode. Problem solved!
Won't matter if you trunked or conventional. Change out Nexedge (Open Proprietary) or DMR (Open Standard) as the defacto open standard P25,and I would support that. As long as we are all on the same Digital Mode, OR better known as CAI (Common Air Interface).

I hear from people all the time we ain't going to that 800 or 700 crap. People say it takes more sites to cover a given area with 800 than VHF, That is not neccasarily true. It would actually take about the same number of sites,,,,Y you might ask. Because you CANNOT put a VHF site at 500 600 feet on a tower and not expect to not get interference from someone. Thats y most vhf sites are at a lower height on the tower typical around here is less than 300feet most only 150 feet due to interference issues.
At 7/800Mhz a height of 500, or even 1000 feet i would not be worried about much interference. Not saying that there are no exceptions to this rule.

I hate the idea of goverment mandating anything, but in my mind this is the only solution.

We could just keep adding cross band or cross mode patches everywhere, Planning and practice is key to interop some people say and I think thats true. But you can never Practice or Plan for when a real disaster happens, things fall through the cracks. When you have a limited number of VHF interop channels they will get used up very very quick. Has anone seen or no what a NIFOG book is, look how many interop channels are avaliable for 700 compared to VHF or UHF or 800.

My reason for 700/800Mhz is it is not a mess like VHF you never know what kind of repeater split or interference you may get from day to day. . UHF may be ok 5mhz split but you have alot of business Business stuff going on there.
700 has a 30MHZ split 800 has a 45mhz split.

I know from personal experiance just how well multiple agencies and juristictions on VHF in one location using portables and mobiles works out. NOT VERY WELL.

Multiple agencies and juristictions on 7/800 all because of the split it works PERFECTLY!

Yes, you can have multiple bands hooked to P25, nexedge, trbo system, but unless you plan on installing multiple bands at each and every site which would be very license and cost prohibitive. it is not a solution.

I do agree that P25 equipment is still WAY to high priced, but thats another subject all together.

A mandate to a specific band and mode is my solution, then again LTE may solve all our issues in the future, LOL.

Just my opinion!
 
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JRayfield

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Another factor that can enter into the difference in range between VHF and 700/800 mhz is the noise floor.

At VHF, the noise floor is higher, as compared to higher frequencies (UHF or 700/800 mhz). In some locations (even very rural locations), the noise floor can be so high on VHF, that the range of a UHF system will be better than a VHF system (antenna height, power, etc. being equal). So, while 700/800 mhz might -normally- have considerably less range as compared to a VHF system, if there's a high noise floor present at a VHF repeater site, then the range of an 700/800 mhz repeater at that same site (with comparably antenna height, power, etc) may be much closer to that of the VHF system.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM
 

hitechRadio

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Another factor that can enter into the difference in range between VHF and 700/800 mhz is the noise floor.

At VHF, the noise floor is higher, as compared to higher frequencies (UHF or 700/800 mhz). In some locations (even very rural locations), the noise floor can be so high on VHF, that the range of a UHF system will be better than a VHF system (antenna height, power, etc. being equal). So, while 700/800 mhz might -normally- have considerably less range as compared to a VHF system, if there's a high noise floor present at a VHF repeater site, then the range of an 700/800 mhz repeater at that same site (with comparably antenna height, power, etc) may be much closer to that of the VHF system.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

Yes I meant to mention noise floor it actually one of the biggest factors besides interference, I have seen a system gain loss of 10db, all due to noise floor on VHF. The system was basically unuseable. And this was not in downtown KC or Chicago. IF the FCC would organize the VHF band with set splits like UHF it may be more managable. But you cannot cheat the laws of physics.
More and more LEO depend on portables, VHF portables usually put out more power 5watts typically, but it is negated by being worn on the side, you could use a PSM with the antenna on the MIC, but noboddy wants a VHF antenna hitting them in the side of the face all the time. And explanning to a LEO to remove the radio from the holster will help alot, but they rarely do it in practice. And thats just Transmit of the portable, the reciever of the portable also has to deal with a noise/floor. Man made interference. Example if I have my laptop on at my house I cannot pick up the local sheriff on my portable, and the portable is not a wide as a barn ham radio or scanner. If I turn off the laptop I have full quieting reception. My wireless router causes the same issues on VHF.
800 on the other hand I have never atleast that I have noticed had interference from computers, etc.
Same with UHF, I rarely have issues with manmade interference.

Most people on this board and others have some kind of background in radio. Most First responder only care about where the PTT is, the do not care about bells and whistles less is better in most cases. We in the radio world understand limits of differnt bands, VHF is the prefered repeated amateur band. And some think that in early mornings it is really cool that you can hit that repeater 100~200 miles away. This is not a good thing at all on VHF for Public Saftey.

This is probably not the post I should be expressing my opinion as it may be off topic.
But it gets my panties in a bunch,,lol, when I start hearing Analog is Interop and Digital sucks, fire fighters cannot use Digital with SCBA's, that may have been true 5~10 years ago. But is just not the case today with the advancement that has been made in digital across all Digital modes. In fact in test that we have performed, our FF's prefer Digital over Analog, If you have had problem today with digital on the fire ground, either your tech did not setup the programiming correctly, or firmware maybe old. Also when holding the speaker mic to the mask, never use the the voice amplifier on an SCBA mask, only use the voice port, no matter digital or analog.

Moderators feel free to move this to the appropraite thread, I appolgize for my rant.
 
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Mork

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new development

This appeared on the FCC site. I wonder how this fits in with the plan to move to a Marcus run system. Torrington had 'borrowed' the license from Harwinton.

PW WNSU505
Torrington, City of
[POLICE COMMUNICATIONS IN THE CITY OF TORRINGTON]
Control Point 1 - 576 MAIN STREET, TORRINGTON CT 860-489-2000
(link)
12/16/2013 License Modified
1 - BURLINGTON RD RT 4, HARWINTON (LITCHFIELD) CT (map)
155.655 FB2 35p 60e Units: 1 11K0F3E
2 - 16.0 km radius around fixed location 1
154.77 MO 35p 35e Units: 10 11K0F3E
155.655 MO 35p 35e Units: 10 11K0F3E
3 - 1210 HIGHLAND AVE, 1210 HIGHLAND AVE, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [NNGTANB] (map)
155.655 FB2 25p 6e Units: 1 11K0F3E
4 - CHARLOTTE HUNGERFORD, 540 LITCHFIELD ST, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Building with antenna on top] (map)
155.655 FB2 50p 30e Units: 1 11K0F3E
5 - 350 BURR MOUNTAIN RD, 350 BURR MOUNTAIN RD, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Monopole] (map)
155.655 FB2 25p 30e Units: 1 11K0F3E
6 - 755 UNIVERSITY DRIVE, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Guyed structure] (map)
155.655 FB2 25p 21e Units: 1 11K0F3E
 

kayn1n32008

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w2csx said:
Looks like they are going to be p25 also.

Uhh 11K0F3E...
 

902

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Also wide NXDN has an emission designator that is similar to P25 and some people might be distracted by that. Emission designators don't describe the protocol used, just the bandwidth consumed and the technique. Most frequently people can "guess" what a technique is based on common emission designators, but different manufacturers can call the same protocol different things and still be right.
 

Mork

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It looks like Marcus plans to keep Torrington on VHF.

IG WQTH284
MARCUS SPECTRUM HOLDINGS, LLC
[PRIVATE CARRIER PROVIDING RADIO SERVICE TO PART 90 ELIGIBLES]
Control Point 1 - 33 MITCHELL DRIVE, MANCHESTER CT 860-646-1839
(link)
01/31/2014 License Issued
1 - 1210 HIGHLAND AVE, 1210 HIGHLAND AVE, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Guyed structure] (map)
152.315 FB6 100p 115e Units: 1 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D
152.3225 FB6 100p 115e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
2 - 218 WHEELER RD, 218 WHEELER RD, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Monopole] (map)
152.315 FB6 100p 500e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
152.3225 FB6 100p 500e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
3 - 350 BURR MOUNTAIN RD, 350 BURR MOUNTAIN RD, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Monopole] (map)
152.315 FB6 100p 275e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
152.3225 FB6 100p 275e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
4 - 755 UNIVERSITY DRIVE, 755 UNIVERSITY DRIVE, TORRINGTON (LITCHFIELD) CT [Structure: Guyed structure] (map)
152.315 FB6 100p 425e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
152.3225 FB6 100p 425e Units: 1 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
5 - 40.0 km radius around fixed location 1
157.575 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
157.5825 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
6 - 40.0 km radius around fixed location 2
157.575 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
157.5825 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
7 - 40.0 km radius around fixed location 3
157.575 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
157.5825 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
8 - 40.0 km radius around fixed location 4
157.575 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
157.5825 MO6 50p 50e Units: 200 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
9 - (LITCHFIELD) CT Land mobile control station meeting 20 rule
157.575 FX1 50p 50e Units: 10 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
157.5825 FX1 50p 50e Units: 10 10K0F1D 10K0F1E 10K0F7D 10K0F7E 11K0F3E 6K60F2D 7K70F1D 8K10F1D 8K10F1E 8K10F7D 8K10F7E 9K60F2D
 

APX7500X2

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It looks like Marcus plans to keep Torrington on VHF.

IG WQTH284
MARCUS SPECTRUM HOLDINGS, LLC
[PRIVATE CARRIER PROVIDING RADIO SERVICE TO PART 90 ELIGIBLES]
Control Point 1 - 33 MITCHELL DRIVE, MANCHESTER CT 860-646-1839

To me that looks like Marcus is putting up their own little trunking system at the same sites as the PD.

I hope someone is keeping track of who is paying for what at the sites
 

Mork

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To me that looks like Marcus is putting up their own little trunking system at the same sites as the PD.

I hope someone is keeping track of who is paying for what at the sites

What is it about the data above that says Trunking? I haven't decoded the emissions coding but all I see are 2 receive freqs and 2 txmit.
 

cg

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That looks like a shotgun approach. If I am reading the EDs correctly, there is P25, P25 control channel, P25 Phase II, narrowband analog, and a couple others.

chris
 
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