Toughbook advice needed

[mmckenna]

Looking for input from professional radio guys regarding Toughbook/ruggedized laptops...

I need a new programming laptop at work. This will get dragged around in the field programming mobiles and portables as well as at radio sites setting up repeaters, backhaul, etc.

I am NOT looking for a used/ebay/hamfest laptop. This will be part of a $4m+ project, so going cheap isn't necessary, but blindly wasting money on top shelf isn't needed, either. I expect to get about 10 years out of this, just like the crappy old Dell POS/non-ruggedized it's replacing. That's enough to get me to retirement and then the next guy can deal with it.

Disclaimer: I'm not a computer guy. I reluctantly tolerate computers because it's part of the job. I've been known to swear at them. Computers and I have an odd relationship. I use them at work but generally hate the wizardry that happens inside them. I'm looking for a tool to complete the job, and I really don't give a rip how it does it, as long as it does it. I primarily use a Macbook Pro at work, mostly because that's what I'm accustomed to and because it's sort of the common platform for most of us at work.

I'm also notoriously hard on laptops and cell phones. I've been known to trip over cords and knock laptops to the floor. I carry a Sonim XP8 cell phone because the iPhones weren't up to the abuse. This laptop will be used in the field. It'll get dragged around in a truck. It'll sit on the hoods/roof tops of police cars. It'll spend time outdoors at radio sites. It'll get dirty, dusty, fingerprints, probably a fair amount of spilled coffee, maybe some rain, and I'm not beyond tossing it at the nearest wall if it irritates me. Probably won't get pressed into service as a wheel chock on a steep hill, but….

OK, ground work laid….

I'm considering the Panasonic Toughbook 33. It appears to be the latest model of fully ruggedized (radio guy proof) laptop.
I'll likely be running Harris RPM as well as Kenwood KPG-D1N, D3N, 111DN, and probably some older Motorola Astro/Pro stuff.
A standard RS-232 port appears to be available, and while it's rarely used, I do have some ancient stuff that seems to hang on...
Toughbook 55 might be an option as I can stick it in a protective case, but the little amount of cost savings isn't adding up for me.
I see that Dell has a ruggedized option, but the Panasonics seem to be more commonly used in this application.
Batter life isn't a huge concern. I have an inverter in my work truck, and almost all the sites will have utility power/backup generator, or at least won't require more than a few hours on site.
I can tether to my cell phone, so LTE modem isn't necessary, but would be a nice option.
Mobile docking station might be of interest as I'll be expanding to about 5 more radio sites, and I do have a fairly large territory to cover.
I'm also looking at long term support for the product, as well as aftermarket support (docking station, accessories, replacement batteries, etc) I don't want to buy into a dead end product, or something that's going to be EOL'd soon.

Unlikely this will become my 'every day' computer, but if I like it, it just might. Weight isn't an issue. Bulk isn't an issue.

So, what are you guys running?
Anything thing you wish you'd done differently? Anything you wish you'd added when spec'ing it out?

Purchase timeline is probably within the next 2-3 months. Government purchase contracts apply, and like I said, price isn't too much of a concern compared to the size of the project that'll be purchasing it. But I'm not the "give me one with everything" type of buyer.

 

[IFRIED91]

We use GETACs in the Air Force

 

[mmckenna]

We use GETACs in the Air Force

Thanks, that's one of the other brands I'd run across, but hadn't heard of anyone else using them. I'll take a look. If it's 'airman' proof, that's the sort of stuff I'm looking for.

 

[IFRIED91]

Thanks, that's one of the other brands I'd run across, but hadn't heard of anyone else using them. I'll take a look. If it's 'airman' proof, that's the sort of stuff I'm looking for.

it’s airman proof yet we still have ones that are shattered and or full of grease/oil

 

[mmckenna]

it’s airman proof yet we still have ones that are shattered and or full of grease/oil

OK. I'm not -that- hard on them. And unlikely they would get exposed to fuel/oil/grease, other than just the keyboard getting nasty.
Some of the site designs I'm looking at may not be a full enclosure/hut type set up. Some of these may be outdoor cabinets, so sitting outside in the sun is a possibility. Won't always be indoor/air conditioned sites.
Also, a few of our sites are right on the Pacific Ocean, so fog, dampness, etc. is a reality.

 

[IFRIED91]

OK. I'm not -that- hard on them. And unlikely they would get exposed to fuel/oil/grease, other than just the keyboard getting nasty.
Some of the site designs I'm looking at may not be a full enclosure/hut type set up. Some of these may be outdoor cabinets, so sitting outside in the sun is a possibility. Won't always be indoor/air conditioned sites.
Also, a few of our sites are right on the Pacific Ocean, so fog, dampness, etc. is a reality.

Speaking for the GETAC V110 and B300
I’ve used seen these GETACs at the maintenance units at Hickam and when taken care of as getting replacements there may take months from the mainland US, will last u a really long time… all the ports and such have rubberized covers and attached is a stylus or as I do.. with the V110 flip it sideways and use it as a durable surface Pro tablet with way better specs as well. The B300 on the other hand still touch screen doesn’t spin over and fold screen out

OH another thing with them… I hope you’re not typing college level Essays… the rubber keyboards is comparable to CrossFit for your fingers haha

 

[mmckenna]

OH another thing with them… I hope you’re not typing college level Essays… the rubber keyboards is comparable to CrossFit for your fingers haha

Yeah, good point. This will be primarily used for radio programming/trouble shooting, with occasional backhaul type troubleshooting. I can always plug in a normal keyboard if I'm feeling particularly verbose. And I've always got the macbook for that sort of stuff.

 

[IFRIED91]

Yeah, good point. This will be primarily used for radio programming/trouble shooting, with occasional backhaul type troubleshooting. I can always plug in a normal keyboard if I'm feeling particularly verbose. And I've always got the macbook for that sort of stuff.

That’s Exactly what I told everyone when few months back when I bought my windows laptop… try doing all those tasks you mentioned on MacBook.. they are great laptops for school

 

[mmckenna]

That’s Exactly what I told everyone when few months back when I bought my windows laptop… try doing all those tasks you mentioned on MacBook.. they are great laptops for school

They are pretty friendly for doing a lot of the terminal based stuff on our equipment at work. Most of our network engineers are running macbook pros, I think there is one that took his issued mac and loaded windows on it. There's a few others that run only Linux, including one of my guys that spends a lot of time neck deep in that sort of stuff, writing code, etc.

But for ease of use, I transitioned from PC to Mac in about 2005 and have been happy with it. A bit more friendly for guys who don't like computers (like me), but not a good solution when it comes to radio programming.

My previous macbook was pretty solid. This latest one has some durability issues. It's been dropped a few times and the case isn't durable, at least not as durable as something that costs this much should be. Already damaged the case around the headphone jack, but was able to fix that by reshaping it with an appropriately sized non-sharp end of a drill bit.

And then add in Apple's fascination with constantly changing the connectors on their products…. Sort of glad when I dumped my iPhone and switched to the Sonim. So much easier just dealing with USB-C rather than Apple's connector du-jour.

As for the OS, and long as I can make it do what I need it to do like the tool it is, I'm OK. Translation: I hate computers, so they all annoy me equally.

 

[IFRIED91]

They are pretty friendly for doing a lot of the terminal based stuff on our equipment at work. Most of our network engineers are running macbook pros, I think there is one that took his issued mac and loaded windows on it. There's a few others that run only Linux, including one of my guys that spends a lot of time neck deep in that sort of stuff, writing code, etc.

But for ease of use, I transitioned from PC to Mac in about 2005 and have been happy with it. A bit more friendly for guys who don't like computers (like me), but not a good solution when it comes to radio programming.

My previous macbook was pretty solid. This latest one has some durability issues. It's been dropped a few times and the case isn't durable, at least not as durable as something that costs this much should be. Already damaged the case around the headphone jack, but was able to fix that by reshaping it with an appropriately sized non-sharp end of a drill bit.

And then add in Apple's fascination with constantly changing the connectors on their products…. Sort of glad when I dumped my iPhone and switched to the Sonim. So much easier just dealing with USB-C rather than Apple's connector du-jour.

As for the OS, and long as I can make it do what I need it to do like the tool it is, I'm OK. Translation: I hate computers, so they all annoy me equally.

Oh I hear ya… guess what… windows laptops now also come with less and less USB ports btw don’t even think about saving money in buying a cheaper laptop thinking you’ll add more ram sticks or take it apart for upgrades haha… everythings solid state now

 

[mikewazowski]

I trialed a Dell "Toughbook" a few months ago and found it to be very similar to the Panasonic Toughbook. If you placed the two side by side, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. I forget the actual model number but it could have been this:

Dell Latitude 7424 14 Inch Laptop

A 14 inch rugged notebook with enhanced graphics performance and up to 4TB of storage. Featuring an intuitive hot swap battery and USB Type-C connectivity.

www.dell.com

Our IT guy said they were actually cheaper than Panasonic and after almost 20 years of using Panasonic exclusively, we might be switching to Dell. The only time we didn't choose Panasonic was when we went with iTronix GoBooks. They only lasted a couple of years before they fell apart. We're out in the field so these things get tossed into trucks, dragged around in sleds and are generally exposed to all sorts of nasty environments.

The best part of the Dell was the sliding door in front of the camera. Saves me from sticking electrical tape over the Toughbook's camera.

We were also trialing new Toughbooks but I wasn't part of that. Currently we're rocking CF-54's which are getting kind of old now.

 

[mmckenna]

Our IT guy said they were actually cheaper than Panasonic and after almost 20 years of using Panasonic exclusively, we might be switching to Dell.

OK, that's good to hear. I was looking at the Dell, but wanted to know if there were really "ruggedized" or is it was just a regular laptop in a fancy looking case. They do appear to be quite a bit cheaper, no doubt built off an existing product line...

The best part of the Dell was the sliding door in front of the camera. Saves me from sticking electrical tape over the Toughbook's camera.

I think the newer Toughbooks have that, but electrical tape works wonders. I hate video calls like that. I usually don't turn my camera on, but we do have one group that insists on it to make sure we're actually participating.

We were also trialing new Toughbooks but I wasn't part of that. Currently we're rocking CF-54's which are getting kind of old now.

OK, I looked at the CF-54's a few years ago, but never purchased. So far it's been the cheap POS HP stuffed in a Pelican case with all the programming cables.

 

[sfd745]

I have two Panasonic Toughbooks I use for programming and operations. I have a CF-54 (replaced by the 55) that I use day to day for programming in the shop, desktop use (on it right now), meetings and such. I have a CF-19 (just cancelled after many years) that is my road girl. Any time I am going to be in and out of equipment or site, I goto the CF-19. I looked at the 33 and I personally would not use it for field work as the tablet does not have a strong locking mechanism into the dock. Several of our ambulances in the area use them for PCR documentation and they complain that the tablet will undock while carrying it or with minor bumping. If I was to replace both of them right now, I would look at the CF-55. or look at the Dell equivalent.

I have used GETAC in the past and I have no major complaints other than when the keyboard (they are very sluggish) and the battery life, they were good laptops. At last look, Dell had the better product warranties between the two.

For testimony to the life of the Toughbook products, I still have my 2009 CF-19 running WinXP that works as good as the day I got it. I no longer use it day to day, but I built it as dual boot DOS / WinXP when I got it back then and still use it for Motorola HT1000s, MT2000's and spectras, as well as XTS3000s and such.

 

[mmckenna]

I looked at the 33 and I personally would not use it for field work as the tablet does not have a strong locking mechanism into the dock. Several of our ambulances in the area use them for PCR documentation and they complain that the tablet will undock while carrying it or with minor bumping. If I was to replace both of them right now, I would look at the CF-55. or look at the Dell equivalent.

OK, good info. Is the tablet/keyboard docking setup more reliable on the CF-55? Seems like unnecessary complexity. I'll likely never use the tablet, and wish they had a standard laptop design.

 

[12dbsinad]

I run a CF-19 because of the size. It's small. I partition the hard drive (solid state) and run Windows 10 and XP for the older stuff. I am telling you, you can't kill it. I've literally dropped it in a puddle of water... no problem, just wipe the screen and continue jumping into heavy equip programming radio's.

It's since been canceled, but find it's equivalent!

 

[sfd745]

The CF-55 is a legit "semi-rugged" laptop, not a tablet base like the 33. It is pretty much the same as the CF-54 but with a newer processor from what I can tel.

TOUGHBOOK 55 | Panasonic North America - United States

 

[sfd745]

I run a CF-19 because of the size. It's small. I partition the hard drive (solid state) and run Windows 10 and XP for the older stuff. I am telling you, you can't kill it. I've literally dropped it in a puddle of water... no problem, just wipe the screen and continue jumping into heavy equip programming radio's.

It's since been canceled, but find it's equivalent!

Very true! Mine has tumbled out of many fire trucks and dump trucks with no damage.

 

[FFPM571]

the CF21 I think is out now.. I liked my 19 and my 31 both served we well.. and they both too a lot of abuse and survived.. Now I changed companies and they gave me a cheap Dell but it's free and If I break it I get a new one.

 

[mmckenna]

Very true! Mine has tumbled out of many fire trucks and dump trucks with no damage.

And that's what I need. I've dropped more laptops that most people have owned. I'm really hard on them. I mean, serious, I try to look after them, but I just seem to have bad luck.

 

[mmckenna]

The CF-55 is a legit "semi-rugged" laptop, not a tablet base like the 33. It is pretty much the same as the CF-54 but with a newer processor from what I can tel.

TOUGHBOOK 55 | Panasonic North America - United States

OK, I think I got the two model numbers swapped.