Toughbook advice needed

[mmckenna]

I run a CF-19 because of the size. It's small. I partition the hard drive (solid state) and run Windows 10 and XP for the older stuff. I am telling you, you can't kill it. I've literally dropped it in a puddle of water... no problem, just wipe the screen and continue jumping into heavy equip programming radio's.

It's since been canceled, but find it's equivalent!

OK, good stuff. I'm still running Windows XP on an old laptop for my older Motorola stuff, so that would be handy.

 

[tweiss3]

I'm not in the radio business, but I do have a few things to add.
1) If you can avoid it, stay away from a touch screen. We replace the touch screen on our surveying data collectors every 6 months like clockwork. Its so bad, we actually have a spare DC because one is always in the shop. And that's a device designed for "every day" use on out on constructions sites and in the woods, in all weather conditions.
2) Like said above, everything is solid state anymore. The days of tossing in additional/upgraded hardware are gone. For that reason, I wouldn't buy anything with less than 16gb ram.
3) We exclusively use Dell for their on-site enterprise warranties. We have had parts flown in next day, installed by a dell tech to get us back up and running, all under warranty.

Take the above for what it's worth, and I wish you luck in your search. 10 years is a long time for a computer now a days.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm not in the radio business, but I do have a few things to add.
1) If you can avoid it, stay away from a touch screen. We replace the touch screen on our surveying data collectors every 6 months like clockwork. Its so bad, we actually have a spare DC because one is always in the shop. And that's a device designed for "every day" use on out on constructions sites and in the woods, in all weather conditions.

OK. Yeah, no need for touch screens, but it looks like it may not be an option on some of them.

2) Like said above, everything is solid state anymore. The days of tossing in additional/upgraded hardware are gone. For that reason, I wouldn't buy anything with less than 16gb ram.

This is project funded, so the slight extra cost is fine. I was going to do 16gb of ram and a 500gb solid state drive. I've got that size on my Mac right now and it's never been more than half full.

3) We exclusively use Dell for their on-site enterprise warranties. We have had parts flown in next day, installed by a dell tech to get us back up and running, all under warranty.

Yeah, we do the same thing with our mission critical servers. Had pretty good luck with it.

Take the above for what it's worth, and I wish you luck in your search. 10 years is a long time for a computer now a days.

So, that's one of the issues. The way they like to fund things is "here's a huge wad of cash, get whatever you need". But if I come back in 5 years and say "hey, I need to upgrade x, y, z", I get the "Why didn't you figure that into the original cost?" I can put funds into depreciation accounts, and draw off that later, but it's a pain in the butt. I can purchase extended maintenance contracts/recalibration, but replacing hardware is hell.

If I can get the right machine now, and rely on being able to buy a few replacement batteries 5 years from now, I can likely make it to retirement and it becomes someone else's issue. But, yeah, perfect world, 3 year replacement cycles on standard issue laptops is what we normally do. Project specific stuff is a different mindset.

"Whaddya mean your 1963 pickup truck is worn out? You should have thought of that when you bought it new!!!". Or some such nonsense.

 

[cmjonesinc]

I think a lot of people are confusing solid state and soldered parts. Not all solidstate hard drives are non upgradable. While some laptops now have the ram and ssd integrated not all do. I know for a fact you can upgrade the solidstate harddrive on a cf20. It's a standard m.2 socket. I personally wouldn't want a new machine that didn't have an ssd. Not having to worry about dropping a machine and destroying the hdd is great. On the subject, a cf20 is great if you want a toughbook. Serial port, fair amount of usb 3.0 ports, great battey life, and a nice backlit keyboard. My only complaint would be the size and the trackpad could be a bit more sensitive. Not something I would want to sit down and do all my computing on but it's definitely a good size to throw in a bag to take with you. I suppose in a office environment having a docking station would solve that issue. The cf20 isn't as beefy as the 19 but it's a great computer.

 

[tweiss3]

So, that's one of the issues. The way they like to fund things is "here's a huge wad of cash, get whatever you need". But if I come back in 5 years and say "hey, I need to upgrade x, y, z", I get the "Why didn't you figure that into the original cost?" I can put funds into depreciation accounts, and draw off that later, but it's a pain in the butt. I can purchase extended maintenance contracts/recalibration, but replacing hardware is hell.

If I can get the right machine now, and rely on being able to buy a few replacement batteries 5 years from now, I can likely make it to retirement and it becomes someone else's issue. But, yeah, perfect world, 3 year replacement cycles on standard issue laptops is what we normally do. Project specific stuff is a different mindset.

"Whaddya mean your 1963 pickup truck is worn out? You should have thought of that when you bought it new!!!". Or some such nonsense.

Yea, that's the problem. My current workstation is now 6 years old this month, and its starting to show its age. The biggest worry to make it last is EOL support for the OS. Currently, you are at the start of the cycle, so you might get 10 years.

I think a lot of people are confusing solid state and soldered parts. Not all solidstate hard drives are non upgradable. While some laptops now have the ram and ssd integrated not all do. I know for a fact you can upgrade the solidstate harddrive on a cf20. It's a standard m.2 socket. I personally wouldn't want a new machine that didn't have an ssd. Not having to worry about dropping a machine and destroying the hdd is great. On the subject, a cf20 is great if you want a toughbook. Serial port, fair amount of usb 3.0 ports, great battey life, and a nice backlit keyboard. My only complaint would be the size and the trackpad could be a bit more sensitive. Not something I would want to sit down and do all my computing on but it's definitely a good size to throw in a bag to take with you. I suppose in a office environment having a docking station would solve that issue. The cf20 isn't as beefy as the 19 but it's a great computer.

Yes, if its m.2, you can upgrade the hard drive. There are a ton of computers now that cannot be upgraded at all, the surface line up comes to mind. Its honestly difficult to tell anymore. You have to pull the service manual and look at the parts lists/exploded view to determine if its even possible.

 

[Ravenfalls]

Check the Lenovo E15 rugged laptop.

Toughbook, I enjoy mine. It runs RPM along with Motorola with no issues on Win 10.
Battery: swap the CD bay for a 2nd internal battery bay.
Touchscreen, it comes with it, I don't use it much.

Both Lenovo & Panasonic Keyboard are very good with back-lit feature.

Lenovo spec wise, it's quick & very light weight. Just upgraded to 11 & also no issues. The fingerprint reader is a nice addition with quick Signin after a near instant boot up.. thanks to SSD.

 

[mikewazowski]

The Dell I had also omitted the cd drive for an extra battery and had a backlit keyboard with customizable colours. Night mode was nice for after hours work.

 

[PACNWDude]

In my work on radio, satcom, and routers and switches, I have used a variety of computers for field programming, both in the Air Force and private sector. However, the two "go-to" computer for me are the Panasonic CF-72 (with the touch screen digitizer broken a decade ago) running Windows XP/DOS, and a newer CF-53 running Windows 10. These cover pretty much everything from Motorola Maxtrac's to Harris RPM12 for XG-100P radios. Both have suffered cracks at the hinges, the CF-72 has a solid state drive now....copied over the spinning drive a few years ago.

Before that, as mentioned by others, the Air Force went with Getac laptops, which work well. I also have an Itronics/General Dynamics GoBook VR2 running Windows7 that gets used up to Motorola CPS18(?) for APX and CPS16 for Trbo. For a while there Itronics/General Dynamics computers were all over the second hand market as the military flooded the auction sites with surplus. Panasonic seems to have the most of the market share, solid support, spare parts, and at least for me.....works after being stuffed into a backpack and taken on vehicles, vessels, and aircraft for a decade. But, I must also mention that I have two Toshiba Portege computers barely running XP/DOS that work just as well, a 3110CT and 7220, which have become lab/desk computers with their docking stations now.

The biggest issue I have ever had with radio programming computers has been keeping the IT department away from them. Panasonic or the Motorola MW900 computers were easy for them, once trained, to realize they did not get updated software, BIOS, connected to the Internet (except when authenticating Motorola EID's), or any other molestation IT often does to a computer in a corporate/office environment. They see a Panasonic, and know to stay away. So, I continue to buy and use Panasonic for that reason, but only every ten years or so.

Good luck on your search.

 

[mikewazowski]

I also have an Itronics/General Dynamics GoBook VR2 running Windows7 that gets used up to Motorola CPS18(?) for APX and CPS16 for Trbo.

Our GoBooks were a first generation product. They worked well until the serial port pins started to fall back into the machine which eventually caused a short on the main board. I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have that problem. Finally gave mine up when the ethernet port failed followed by the USB ports failing (which I was using with an ethernet adaptor).

Panasonic seems to have the most of the market share, solid support, spare parts, and at least for me.....works after being stuffed into a backpack and taken on vehicles, vessels, and aircraft for a decade.

That's why our IT guy said that Dell was bending over backwards to accommodate our needs. They want a bigger share of the market and we'd probably be purchasing about 1,000 units.

Of course, I'm sure that our next computer purchase will all depend on who greases the executives the best. Doesn't matter to me, either the Panasonic or Dell are good choices for the hell we put them through.

 

[ramal121]

I have had a Durabook for about 9 years now. Beat to crap but still functionally fine except could use a new battery. Came with serial port as standard. Semi retired now as it is XP but still fire it up once in a while for those "surprise" radios.

Edit: Their office is just down the road from you.

 

[FKimble]

Sounds like "mission critical" use. Decide what you want and buy 2 of them. One for the office and one for the road. Or a mission critical spare, or call it repair parts. Oh and this will give you an extra battery for those long days/nites. But get an extra battery just to be safe. Whats that old saying? Two is one and one is none!

Frank

 

[PACNWDude]

Our GoBooks were a first generation product. They worked well until the serial port pins started to fall back into the machine which eventually caused a short on the main board. I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have that problem. Finally gave mine up when the ethernet port failed followed by the USB ports failing (which I was using with an ethernet adaptor).

I must have been lucky as well on my GoBook VR2, using it to type this, have yet to experience the serial and Ethernet port issue. The left screen hinge has lost the metal pin and can be wiggled a bit, and the "4" button is loose, so not bad for a computer that has been used hard. Thank you for the reply, wil watch out for others that may have port problems.

 

[N1XDS]

I am using a Panasonic Toughbook CF-19 that I use to program my APX 6000XE and Harris XG-75 and XG-100P radios never had any issues with the serial port for the XG-75 programming and same with bluetooth programming for the Unity XG-100P. I've owned this computer for about four months now with no complaints.

 

[n3obl]

I recommend a CF-52 or 53. I have used a 52 for a number of years with Windows 7 32 Bit, 4gb ram, and SSD drive. Works great for radio programming and that's all I use it for. Runs Trbo, APX and RPM just fine. I use a 2GB USB stick when I need old school DOS and old programs.

 

[mmckenna]

I recommend a CF-52 or 53.

No longer available. 55 is the replacement model.

Based on input above, I'll probably go with the Panasonic. Just better market penetration, support and accessories. I've been down this sort of path before, and sometimes you can buy a great product, but finding accessories at a later time becomes a headache.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

 

[iMONITOR]

Looking for input from professional radio guys regarding Toughbook/ruggedized laptops...

I'm also notoriously hard on laptops and cell phones. I've been known to trip over cords and knock laptops to the floor. I carry a Sonim XP8 cell phone because the iPhones weren't up to the abuse. This laptop will be used in the field. It'll get dragged around in a truck. It'll sit on the hoods/roof tops of police cars. It'll spend time outdoors at radio sites. It'll get dirty, dusty, fingerprints, probably a fair amount of spilled coffee, maybe some rain, and I'm not beyond tossing it at the nearest wall if it irritates me. Probably won't get pressed into service as a wheel chock on a steep hill, but….

This should do the trick!

Amazon.com: Barbie B-Book Laptop : Toys & Games

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[mmckenna]

This should do the trick!

Hey, if we could trick it to run just DOS, it would be just fine for my Motorola Jedi's.

 

[cmjonesinc]

I can say my cf18 plays fine with Jedis but my cf19 mk3 absolutely does not. A deal breaker for a 19 I'm sure

 

[mmckenna]

I can say my cf18 plays fine with Jedis but my cf19 mk3 absolutely does not. A deal breaker for a 19 I'm sure

Well, thankfully I've got a big budget to work with, so buying used stuff isn't the plan. Pretty much comes down to the 33 or 55.

 

[jeepsandradios]

I went thru this last year when my home PC finally died. I had an old Toughbook from years ago that I run my Ht1000 stuff on and always was a workhorse. I looked at the GETEC and DELL. In the end I didn't see a lot of "parts" for GETEC or DELL out there but you can get just about any part for a Toughbook new and old from all over. I spent 3 months searching and finally ended up with a 53 as it was a deal I couldn't pass on. If I had funding I would have bought a new 55. The other advantage I had is most of the fire/ems/law vehicles I come in contact with have Toughbook so having access to an accessory was more common with those.