Tower for CB Antenna?

[UnidenBC92XLT]

This tower was actually a 55' tower. I just didn't use the other top 2 sections that's in the pic above that are rusted. The top 2 sections that I didn't use get narrow as they go up. The tower was installed at previous location same way just attached to the house. It was 55' tall there with no guy wires and was there for 35 years. The guy gave it to me and I had a guy take it down and just install the 35' at my place. I will probably add some guy wires just for a piece of mind.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This is the ground at my power pole. It's 40' from where my tower is going. There is a big tree between my pole and where my tower is going. Also the line runs away from it so no way it can fall over the power line.

Don't connect at the pole!

Look for the ground rod where your meter box or disconnect is mounted on the house. Technically that is called the "service entrance". The rod will be right below it. Unless it is a very old house and the water pipe was used. In that case, install a proper ground rod at the service entrance and bond that rod to your existing electrical ground and your tower.

Multiple ground rods spaced around your tower all boded together is the best insurance.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Hello All: Allow me to disagree with some of the things said here while not being disagreeable.

I don't care what the NEC Code is, what the ARRL says how to ground, or Motorola R56 at http://www.ronet.co.za/downloads/R56 Guidelines.pdf

I do NOT want my tower and three antennas ground tied into my house ground system, as the tower is at 55 feet high, and will the first thing hit by lightening, not my house in my view. During rare lightening storms in my area ( Mojave Desert ) I simple disconnect the coaxes and roll them back several feet. This isolates any Lightening energy from getting into the house's wiring system. And blowing up expensive radio equipment. And has worked for many years. Had a close by lightening strike several years ago, about 400 feet away, I saw the disconnected PL-259 connector arc over during the lightening strike. This is why lightening suppressors are used.

I have seen many tower installations but never seen the tower ground connected to the house ground.

Comments?

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert

Not bonding your tower to your house electrical system will expose you to potential electrical damage and fire.

If that is your idea of proper grounding please don't start a go-fund me donation page when your house burns because you forgot to roll up the cable. Oh, and by the way, your lone isolated tower will become a giant electromagnet when struck and that energy will resonate into your homes electrical system. The R56 and ARRL have the correct methodology - don't try to outsmart them.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

Don't connect at the pole!

Look for the ground rod where your meter box or disconnect is mounted on the house. Technically that is called the "service entrance". The rod will be right below it. Unless it is a very old house and the water pipe was used. In that case, install a proper ground rod at the service entrance and bond that rod to your existing electrical ground and your tower.

Multiple ground rods spaced around your tower all boded together is the best insurance.

My pole is where my meter box is. There is no box on the house. 200amp service runs straight from my meter at the pole where the ground is to my fuse box in the house.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

My pole is where my meter box is. There is no box on the house. 200amp service runs straight from my meter at the pole where the ground is to my fuse box in the house.

The fuse box at the house is your service entrance. There should be a ground rod connected to the fuse box a few feet away. Now, since you have fuses, you might have an old enough structure that the water pipe was used for ground. In the interest of safety you should install a ground rod at that point and bond to the fuse box and your tower ground rods. For every 8 feet of horizontal distance between your service entrance ground rod and your tower you should drive another ground rod and bond it to the ground conductor.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

The fuse box at the house is your service entrance. There should be a ground rod connected to the fuse box a few feet away. Now, since you have fuses, you might have an old enough structure that the water pipe was used for ground. In the interest of safety you should install a ground rod at that point and bond to the fuse box and your tower ground rods. For every 8 feet of horizontal distance between your service entrance ground rod and your tower you should drive another ground rod and bond it to the ground conductor.

There is no ground rod for my Breaker panel. My bad I dont have any fuses. All PVC water pipes. The only ground coming into the breaker box is the big huge one coming from my meter at the pole. The main ground for the electrical structure for the home is the one pictured at my light pole where the main meter is installed. I cant put any ground rods under my home. A skinny person has to scoot on there stomach to get under there much less drive in a ground rod.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

My home was new 2003. Just putting that out there. I guess me calling it a fuse panel is confusing. Everyone I know still calls it that.

 

[byndhlptom]

Ground

If the service entrance (breaker box on/in the house) does not have a wire going to earth(ground), then the person who wired it did not follow either electrical code or best practices.

It should have one. It provides a ground for safety.

The uninsulated wire that comes in with the power only provides a power return.

$.02

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

There is no ground rod for my Breaker panel. My bad I don't have any fuses. All PVC water pipes. The only ground coming into the breaker box is the big huge one coming from my meter at the pole. The main ground for the electrical structure for the home is the one pictured at my light pole where the main meter is installed. I can't put any ground rods under my home. A skinny person has to scoot on there stomach to get under there much less drive in a ground rod.

Ground rods can always be driven at the exterior of the house. If this was built in 2003, I would defer to the national electrical code to determine where the service entrance ground is or should be.

I assume it was inspected by the "jurisdiction having authority" County or City and a certificate of occupancy (CO) was issued?

If you remove the panel from your breaker box you should see either a green insulated or bare copper conductor from a grounding bus bar going into the wall and to a ground rod, which might be down in the crawl space.

Your panel "should" have a bus bar inside where all the copper ground leads are secured from the circuit branches. In other cases, there will be a green bonding screw between the bus bar and the case of the panel. Then the ground will be via the fourth wire in your overhead or buried service. In this case perhaps no ground rod.

This might be the case for a mobile home or some rural jurisdiction.

If in doubt call the electrician who wired the house and ask him where the service entrance ground is located.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

If the service entrance (breaker box on/in the house) does not have a wire going to earth(ground), then the person who wired it did not follow either electrical code or best practices.

It should have one. It provides a ground for safety.

The uninsulated wire that comes in with the power only provides a power return.

$.02

There is no uninsulated wire. There is 3 huge black cables like 1/0 or whatever it is. 2 hots and a 1 ground. The ground is tied into the meter panel at the pole where its grounded to earth ground at the pole. If my house wasn't grounded properly wouldn't meters tell you that when you plug them into the outlets? We never even unplug anything in a bad lightning storm and never been hit 1 time since 2003.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

Ground rods can always be driven at the exterior of the house. If this was built in 2003, I would defer to the national electrical code to determine where the service entrance ground is or should be.

I assume it was inspected by the "jurisdiction having authority" County or City and a certificate of occupancy (CO) was issued?

If you remove the panel from your breaker box you should see either a green insulated or bare copper conductor from a grounding bus bar going into the wall and to a ground rod, which might be down in the crawl space.

Your panel "should" have a bus bar inside where all the copper ground leads are secured from the circuit branches. In other cases, there will be a green bonding screw between the bus bar and the case of the panel. Then the ground will be via the fourth wire in your overhead or buried service. In this case perhaps no ground rod.

This might be the case for a mobile home or some rural jurisdiction.

If in doubt call the electrician who wired the house and ask him where the service entrance ground is located.

It is a double wide Mobile Home. Bought it new in late 2002. I believe the copper bare wire I seen in the box inside the house is connected to the metal frame beneath the house. No ground rod.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

RFI-EMI-GUY there is pics of my breaker panel like on page 1 I believe if you would like to take a look at it.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

There is no uninsulated wire. There is 3 huge black cables like 1/0 or whatever it is. 2 hots and a 1 ground. The ground is tied into the meter panel at the pole where its grounded to earth ground at the pole. If my house wasn't grounded properly wouldn't meters tell you that when you plug them into the outlets? We never even unplug anything in a bad lightning storm and never been hit 1 time since 2003.

1) The wires you describe are two hot conductors and a neutral return. Neutral is not ground, ground is a safety conductor.

2) Meters and those plug in testers cannot tell you if there is a grounding problem between the breaker panel and the pole. They only tell you if neutral main or ground wires are transposed between the panel and the outlet.

3) Most certainly you should have a service entrance (safety) ground. It is a very simple thing to do correctly.

I would advise you to search Google for Motorola R56 with respect to the tower and equipment grounding and bonding and study it. But first, go to your local library (or internet) and check out the 2003 National Electrical Code and study it to see of your house was grounded per code in 2003.

If it was not shame on the electrician who installed your service and double shame for the inspector who overlooked this. I would contact that electrician for an explanation and correction of the wiring. The power company is also a possible resource to consult on this. Bear in mind if it is wired wrong they might disconnect your power.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

It is a double wide Mobile Home. Bought it new in late 2002. I believe the copper bare wire I seen in the box inside the house is connected to the metal frame beneath the house. No ground rod.

Ok, well this explains things.

Did you say the pole is 40 feet away?

The copper wire to metal frame should also be bonded to a ground rod if there are only those three hot+hot+neutral conductors from your home to the pole. Look around for it, if not there, contact the electrician who installed the service.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

Ok, well this explains things.

Did you say the pole is 40 feet away?

The copper wire to metal frame should also be bonded to a ground rod if there are only those three hot+hot+neutral conductors from your home to the pole. Look around for it, if not there, contact the electrician who installed the service.

Thats not exact im sure but yes its 40-50' away from where my tower is installed. Probably 70-80' from pole to my breaker panel in the house.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Thats not exact im sure but yes its 40-50' away from where my tower is installed. Probably 70-80' from pole to my breaker panel in the house.

see this:

http://www.wcec.org/files/4113/1014/3209/ManufacturedHomeWiring.pdf

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

So if I discover that my breaker panel is just grounded to the frame which it has to be because I know there isn't a ground rod under my home. Can I run a ground from the frame to my new rod at the tower and it be grounded properly? If I did discover a ground rod under my home I can assure you its not tied in with the ground rod out at the pole.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

So if I discover that my breaker panel is just grounded to the frame which it has to be because I know there isn't a ground rod under my home. Can I run a ground from the frame to my new rod at the tower and it be grounded properly? If I did discover a ground rod under my home I can assure you its not tied in with the ground rod out at the pole.

If you have no ground rod from your frame/panel you can drive an 8 foot ground rod right there and bond them together. A conductor then should be extended from that rod to the tower and for, at minimum every 16 feet of horizontal run there should be another 8 foot rod driven and bonded. At the tower, you should run three radials to at least three ground rods (code says 1) and they should all be bonded to the conductor to the house.

See Motorola R56 for details and conductor size and type.

Don't mess with the ground at the utility pole.

You still should review NEC code for 2002 or 2003 to make sure your install was per code.

 

[UnidenBC92XLT]

see this:

http://www.wcec.org/files/4113/1014/3209/ManufacturedHomeWiring.pdf

This big box that its calling the mobile home panel is installed on my light pole right under the meter. Then the 3 big black cables run straight under my footing under the house right up into the breaker panel. The run is approx 70'.

 

[mmckenna]

Without getting too deep into this, here's some thoughts:

Trailer frames do need to be grounded, as you discovered.

The difference between the pole ground and your ground get curious because the utility has one set of rules and the trailer side have another. I don't have the time to dig through NEC to figure it all out, but you could or could not have an issue. Only way to know for sure would be to call the utility and ask them. They'll usually send a guy out for free to look at this sort of stuff, especially if it's a safety issue. In my opinion (whatever the heck that is worth) this would be considered a safety issue, or at least a safety question.

Do the best you can here. You might get away with things working as they are, or you might not. Lightning strikes (or even nearby ones) won't care what the NEC says. It can do a lot of damage. If your home is damaged and the insurance company determines you neglected something, it can be a real PITA. Always best to ask the appropriate experts (not here) and get a solid answer.

Some installs use the neutral wire as a "grounded conductor". Not to be confused with a "grounding conductor". Again, this comes down to the difference between the rules the utility uses and the rules that your home follows.