Town of Payson (AZ) police has disappeared from their VHF radio channels

[cellphone]

Through grants, we’ve been working on replacing our outdated radio system (the officer’s lifeline) with a new digital 800 MHz radio system.

Great find on this article! With is I'm almost positive they are on the R&M system. The only 800mhz activity when I was in the area was the APS system and the R&M system. As mentioned earlier, I did not monitor them on the APS system. Talkgroup 550 (encrypted) was very active on the R&M NXDN system.

 

[apco25]

I'd be very surprised if they are paying an SMR for public safety radio.

 

[Ravenfalls]

I'd be very surprised if they are paying an SMR for public safety radio.

Buckeye PD in AZ used a private company until RWC was established.

 

[Ravenfalls]

If Aztec & 5 Mike appear as future license. Sure bet that Gila County will switch over. Both agencies visit Mesa/Phoenix so having Shaw Butte & Signal Pk is huge bonus. They must be very happy with the added coverage!

 

[DanRollman]

The apparent owner of R&M Repeater LLC is Robert W Miller. Christopher F. Salgot is also involved. Their registered address and accountant are local in Payson.

Here is their office there:

77 Walters Ln · 77 Walters Ln, Payson, AZ 85541

Building

www.google.com

The sign out front also uses the name C&M Communications, which has a website at company information - c & m communications arizona that also references R&M Repeater and describes some interesting history on the two companies. The Customers page includes, among other things, medical air ambulance companies.

Since the "C&M" in that name is Christopher and Mary Salgot, perhaps the "Christopher S. Salgot" trunking system name should be updated to refer to C&M Communications too.

 

[west-pac]

The apparent owner of R&M Repeater LLC is Robert W Miller. Christopher F. Salgot is also involved. Their registered address and accountant are local in Payson.

Here is their office there:

77 Walters Ln · 77 Walters Ln, Payson, AZ 85541

Building

www.google.com

The sign out front also uses the name C&M Communications, which has a website at company information - c & m communications arizona that also references R&M Repeater and describes some interesting history on the two companies. The Customers page includes, among other things, medical air ambulance companies.

Since the "C&M" in that name is Christopher and Mary Salgot, perhaps the "Christopher S. Salgot" trunking system name should be updated to refer to C&M Communications too.

Ok?? Air medical services are privately owned companies. They are not government agencies. I would not suspect the police dept went to that system.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

Christopher F Salgot
The attached license under it says WPFI728 (C&M Communications LLC)
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5989

__________________________________________________________________
Reviewing the FCC names:

FCC Callsign: KNRT278 (R&M REPEATER LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/KNRT278

FCC Callsign: KNRT354 (R&M REPEATER LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/KNRT354

FCC Callsign: WNQJ808 (R & M Repeater LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WNQJ808

FCC Callsign: WQKB744 (R&M REPEATER LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WQKB744

FCC Callsign: WQBG714 (R&M REPEATER LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WQBG714

FCC Callsign: WPNP607 (R&M REPEATER LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WPNP607

FCC Callsign: WPXA355 (R&M REPEATER LLC)
FRN: 0003801834
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WPXA355

_____________________________________________________

FCC Callsign: WNYS247 (C&M Communications LLC)
FRN: 0024230914
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WNYS247

FCC Callsign: WPLF995 (C&M Communications LLC)
FRN: 0024230914
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WPLF995

FCC Callsign: WPFI728 (C&M Communications LLC)
FRN: 0024230914
https://www.radioreference.com/db/fcc/callsign/WPFI728

_______________________________________________________

FCC Licenses for FRN: 0024230914 (C&M Communications LLC)

RR Database Home

The most complete database of radio communications data

www.radioreference.com

FCC Licenses for FRN: 0003801834 (R&M REPEATER LLC)

RR Database Home

The most complete database of radio communications data

www.radioreference.com

 

[Ravenfalls]

With these new sites, very possible Gila Sheriff will switch over.
Navajo County could change from DMR to NXDN & switch?
Navajo is still analog

 

[cellphone]

I would not suspect the police dept went to that system.

Payson PD Annual Report 2020 (paysonaz.gov/E-Gov/Police-Department/Reports/PD-Annual-2020.pdf)
"Through grants, we’ve been working on replacing our outdated radio system (the officer’s lifeline) with a new digital 800 MHz radio system. This radio system will provide exceptional coverage for the officers throughout the Town and surrounding areas. The system should be functional near the end of the year or early January 2021. "

APS and R&M are they only two 800 MHz systems that currently cover Payson.

With my recent monitoring in the area, I am about 90% sure that they are on Encrypted talkgroup number 550 on the R&M system.

 

[AzTac]

apco25,

The Town of Payson is located in a rural area with extremely limited options for radio connectivity and operates on a limited budget. Contracting through a private vendor would be a cost effective and efficient way to improve (and easily encrypt) their communications with no significant capital outlay. Even if they tried to join the state's fledgling AZWINS they would have to pay a monthly subscriber fee with an additional fee for encryption capabilities for likely more money than they'd pay a vendor. Furthermore, they just purchased "several" 800Mhz radios with a $25,000 grant - no agency is able to purchase "several" radios with just $25k thru any government purchasing contracts....

 

[AzTac]

Another piece to the puzzle...

Motion: to Approve Resolution No. 3224 captioned as follows: A RESOLUTION OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL OF THE TOWN OF PAYSON, ARIZONA, APPROVING AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE A LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TOWN OF PAYSON AND C&M COMMUNICATIONS LLC FOR LEASE OF SPACE ON THE TOWN’S COMMUNICATION TOWER LOCATED AT 902 NORTH HILLCREST DRIVE FOR THE PURPOSE OF INSTALLING EQUIPMENT FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE OF SUPPORTING LOCAL AREA TOWN AND COUNTY PUBLIC SAFETY AND FIRST RESPONDER COMMUNICATIONS.

Vote: Motion carried 7 - 0

10/08/20 Council meeting minutes

 

[DanRollman]

Another piece to the puzzle...

By "another piece" do you mean "the last piece"? Pretty sure this one is figured out. That tower location C&M is leasing "for the express purpose of supporting local area town and county public safety and first responder communications" is Site 18 on the R&M Repeater NXDN system, and we've already established that R&M Repeater LLC and C&M Communications are affiliates.

Sorry to see Payson PD go encrypted, but good detective work all!

 

[DanRollman]

I'd be very surprised if they are paying an SMR for public safety radio.

Now that we know Payson PD has moved to the R&M SMR system, I will comment on the above.

I get that it is uncommon for U.S. public safety agencies to use a shared commercial vendor for radio system services, but it is not lost on me that NEXEDGE offers queue priority and preemption. No idea whether this system employs that, but Payson PD (and Gila County SO) could very well have priority over commercial users of the system.

In any event, let's not kid ourselves into thinking the radio system Payson PD (and more so Gila County SO) was using was all that great or reliable anyway, even if it was exclusive to them.

Police departments trust Motorola and other vendors to build and maintain their radios, trust Glock to build their guns, trust local repair shops to maintain their cars, trust the reliability of their light bar and siren to Whelen, trust the reliability of their body cam to Axon, trust local radio shops to maintain their dispatch consoles or head up the mountain if the repeater goes down (C&M owns their own SnowCat!), trust the local phone company to keep the 911 system running, trust the local fuel station or a gas delivery tanker (if they have their own pumps) to ensure the patrol cars have fuel. I'm not sure why they can't trust a reliable and sophisticated SMR to provide their radio system. Even if it is unusual. Plus - I mean - jeez, FirstNet is really just AT&T. Right?

 

[Ravenfalls]

Firstnet Link

“I go to [FirstNet] and say ‘I know this is a sparsely populated area, but we've got the parish emergency operation center, the courthouse, and the sheriff's office all at the same spot. So, I need you to put [the deployable] here,’” said Travis. “We worked together to deploy a FirstNet SatCOLT to get everybody back up and running.”

Firstnet Link 2

Twenty years ago, the 9/11 terrorist attacks forever changed our nation – and set a new course for the way public safety communicates. Today, FirstNet gives first responders an interoperable network available nationwide for communicating every day and in every emergency.

 

[cfsimmont]

The TG believed to be Payson PD is occasionally affiliating with the Mesa site, of course can't hear any audio being encrypted. No other activity at the moment, but will be scanning the system to see if anything else pops up. Interested to see if any other agencies are currently using the system as well.

 

[Foresigt]

The mistake that agencies make is they go to eunique radio systems and suddenly find out they can't talk to other supporting agencies. My guess is their only option to talk to DPS or any other agency is AIRS. Many DPS vehicles now have dual and or tri band radios but they do P25 not NXDEN. There is another county that made that mistake and went to DMR. Now they have to live with it.

 

[DanRollman]

The mistake that agencies make is they go to eunique radio systems and suddenly find out they can't talk to other supporting agencies. My guess is their only option to talk to DPS or any other agency is AIRS. Many DPS vehicles now have dual and or tri band radios but they do P25 not NXDEN. There is another county that made that mistake and went to DMR. Now they have to live with it.

True, but comms with other agencies has been largely "theory" for as long as radios have existed. Sure, a few do it ok. But even when every agency was analog many lacked the programming, training, permissions, knowledge, will or interest in visiting another agency's channels anyway. Interagency communications has really never been about technology. It's mostly scanner listeners and comm techs who even think this is a real thing.

Sure, valley agencies can switch to common talkgroups. But that's just the modern version of switching to mutual aid... or AIRS. I suspect Payson PD may have the ability to patch to AIRS, so they are no worse off.

Things like this are discussed most by people like us in forums like this one. I'm just not convinced this is even much of a topic outside these sorts of groups. Even when two agencies do in fact use the same technology on the same band. It never has been.

 

[Ravenfalls]

The radios are dual mode digital
=
Each radio has NXDN & P25 along with analog conventional.

Their radio system works in Phoenix.
+
They can also use AZ Wins, Flagstaff, Pinal County , RWC & the list goes on. Their radio have G & H Deck amongst others for RWC.

They visit Phoenix often. I've been with the Payson current & former Chiefs to a funeral @ the National Memorial Cemetary. They visit often unfortunately.

No way they would get rid of their VHF equipment. I'd bet each car has 2 radios like Gila SO has.
Some Gila SO units have had 800Mhz radios installed for few decades for MCSO & Flagstaff.

In theory they have gained more since most agencies now P25 Phase I or II.

 

[tonyguevara]

Check this license. It is comprised of three sites that would be beneficial to the Town of Payson.

Trunked License - KNRT354 - R&M REPEATER LLC

Wayne

I just discovered that Payson PD is definitely on this system (R&M REPEATER INC.) and went digital with full encryption. The system is NXDN, but even with an upgrade on my SDS 100 or BCD995P2, it's not likely to be able to listen in. Bummer!

 

[Ravenfalls]

Arizona Attorney General Office provided the grant of $25,000 to Payson.

1 of the main reason they upgraded was to have radios which are compatible with the new AZWINS System for DPS, along with Gila County Sheriff.