This dual band has 3 radials at the bottom aluminum PL239 connection point. I have it mounted on a 10’ steel pipe which is further mounted at the top of a 10’ 4”x4”. The pipe is electrically connected to the radials at the top but currently insulated from ground by the 4”x4”. The Tram installation instructions don’t address antenna grounding. Should the pipe be grounded, insulated from the radials or left as i have installed?
Tram 1280 dual band vertical grounding
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mmckenna
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The 3 radials provide the RF ground plane, so you are good there.
Grounding the mast is a requirement of the National Electric Code.
Your mast should be grounded to a ground rod, preferably under the mast. NEC also requires that any new ground rods you add be bonded to the home ground rod.
Grounding the mast is a requirement of the National Electric Code.
Your mast should be grounded to a ground rod, preferably under the mast. NEC also requires that any new ground rods you add be bonded to the home ground rod.
You need to check NEC for sizes. Personally mine is 2AWG going from panel ground to ground bar. I have one mast on house and its a #2 from attic to same ground rod.
prcguy
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Its usually more convenient to install a lightning arrestor or ground block in the feedline at the closest point to the house AC ground, then run a minimum of 10ga copper wire (per NEC) to the main house ground point.
mmckenna
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I agree, however OP was asking about grounding the mast. Was going to save lightning protector on the coax for later in the discussion.
mmckenna
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You'd want something larger than #12. Check with NEC for what they require.
As for an insulated mast, connecting to the antenna mounting bracket should work. That should be connected to the outer shield of the coax and the radials.
So far I have run a #6 copper from mast pipe down to a 1/2” ground rod and #6 from the ground rod to the exterior service panel (30’). The panel is embedded in the exterior wall of the house and the service ground rod is also evidently inside the wall. All electric is underground. Had to run the #6 through the stucco wall to the interior of the breaker side of the panel and to big lug on the panel back.
So this is the reply I got back from APS (Arizona Public Service) electric utility when I asked for help with finding the service panel external ground rod:
“Good morning, I wanted to get back to you with an answer to your question. I spoke to one of our planners and he said you really should install your own ground rod and tie into in, that will help avoid having anything else tied to the house directly.”
That advice is diametrically opposite what the NEC says……
“Good morning, I wanted to get back to you with an answer to your question. I spoke to one of our planners and he said you really should install your own ground rod and tie into in, that will help avoid having anything else tied to the house directly.”
That advice is diametrically opposite what the NEC says……
Actually my meaning was that all access to the service ground is within the wall on the side of the panel sealed by APS. Any actual ground rod is buried where it can't be easily found. And there is no misunderstanding in what I asked of the APS Construction office. I have included a transcript of the email interaction with APS. I removed personal email, addresses, phone stuff. Order is most recent first.
Clearly I have not reached the people who really understand the purpose of a unified earth ground around a structure.
I could put in another rod by the panel myself, but maybe I would drive it through the incoming underground service cable. In our area, APS does not use conduit but directly buried cables from the transformer to a splitter box for 2 houses. I'm not sure about the cabling from the splitter to the houses, but I think it is direct burial cable also.
Anyway the adventure continues.
Well..........
I think I see the problem. They think you are tying your radio into the ground rod. You are "bonding" a ground rod for your antenna mast as required by code. Try that.
Bill
I think I see the problem. They think you are tying your radio into the ground rod. You are "bonding" a ground rod for your antenna mast as required by code. Try that.
Bill
mmckenna
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I agree. I think the issue is with your wording. At least that's what the wording of their reply suggests.
Your home should have its own ground rod. That ground rod does not belong to the utility. The utility may think you want to connect to their rod. They will absolutely tell you no if that is what they think you are trying to do. Too risky for them to allow someone who's not trained to mess with their stuff. An individual accidentally or intentionally disconnecting a ground for a high voltage system could be potentially fatal.
You want to connect to YOUR ground rod. You don't need the utility's permission to do that. Just make sure you do not disconnect any grounds. Install a new clamp with your ground conductor.
Your home should have its own ground rod. That ground rod does not belong to the utility. The utility may think you want to connect to their rod. They will absolutely tell you no if that is what they think you are trying to do. Too risky for them to allow someone who's not trained to mess with their stuff. An individual accidentally or intentionally disconnecting a ground for a high voltage system could be potentially fatal.
You want to connect to YOUR ground rod. You don't need the utility's permission to do that. Just make sure you do not disconnect any grounds. Install a new clamp with your ground conductor.
mmckenna
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Underground Service Alert is your friend. Call 811. The utility will come out and mark where their service is. If you run in a rod at a location where they have not marked their stuff, any issues with their service will be on them. In other words, it's up to them to accurately mark the location of their service.
Underground Service Alert - Wikipedia
Also, based on the reply, I'm a bit confused.
From reading the e-mail exchange, it looks like you want to tie into their ground rod. No way they are going to let you do that. That's part of their system and they don't want someone who's not part of their company messing with their ground rod. Any damage done to it could be potentially fatal. The drop to your home will probably include a ground, or at least a grounded neutral. You should not need to bond anything into their system, and ultimately you don't want to.
Your home should have its own ground rod. That is where you need to connect. Leave the utility out of it. If you cannot find your ground rod, then have USA come in and mark where the utilities are. Then install your own ground rod and bond it to your homes ground buss. Then attach your ground for your antenna system.
When in doubt, call a licensed electrician. It's money well spent.
If you’re confused, I’m double confused. The email exchange does not accurately represent what I asked for over the phone. I was very clear about installing an amateur radio antenna mast that was grounded to a rod at its base, and that by code I needed to tie that rod to the house ground rod that should be somewhere in front of the service entrance panel.
You now speak of “their” and “my” ground rod as somehow being different. The only ground rod at the “house” should be the one attached inside the service meter side of the circuit breaker panel.
Maybe you are not considering how service is provided here in parts of Arizona. The service entrance, metering, safety interruption breakers and distribution anre all integrated into a single 2-compartment panel embedded in the outside wall of the house. So only the utility can open the sealed side of the panel where the meter is and the house ground rod is attached I hope.
mmckenna
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Well, you're confused, I'm confused and I'm betting the utility is confused. As long as everyone is confused, we're all on the same page, which is good….I guess.
Usually the utility will not run a ground wire to your home. It's usually a neutral that is grounded somewhere on their system, likely at or near the transformer that feeds your home. The neutral is a 'grounded conductor', not to be confused with a 'grounding conductor'.
The neutral will come in from the utility and land on a block in the panel. It won't pass through the meter, so it should be there on your side of the meter socket. But that should already be tied into your home ground rod, and you don't want to mess with it.
You could run in a new ground rod, which is probably a good idea since the original ground rod will deteriorate over time. Connect that ground rod to the ground terminal in your side of the entrance panel. Using a separate clamp, connect your radio ground to that new rod.
As they say, a picture is worth 1000 words....
I expected there would be a wire from the neutral bar in the left-hand lower panel running out to a rod in front of the panel. You are saying to move the #6 from the terminal block and run to a new rod in front of the panel. Then run a new #6 from the ground block to the new rod.
If that is what you mean it makes sense that I dont need the utility company. I just need the ground marked by 811.
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In looking for the ground rod connected to your electrical service entrance, it may not be directly under your service panel. Look around the water and gas service entrances as well. They too should be bonded and you may be able to follow that bonding jumper back to the ground rod. The ground rod may very well be hidden within the walls of your building. I've seen this where a "ufer" is installed and the grounding jumper is welded to the "ufer" FYI: a "ufer" is a grounding system that incorporates the rebar in your building slab with your grounding system. It may also include one or more ground rods too. Whatever you do, don't interrupt any existing ground connections. Also, as noted above, be sure to contact Underground Service Alert before driving any ground rods or doing any digging around the building, especially near any services. I've done a lot of commercial/industrial construction projects and bad things can happen when you don't.
I can't tell from your photo but I'd like to point something out: In your service panel there should be both a neutral buss and a ground buss. While they are electrically connected at the panel, usually via one bonding screw, you should make sure that your new wire is connected to the ground buss if you're going to stick with your plan. If that neutral bonding screw ever gets loose and you lose the bond, (while your ground is connected to the neutral buss) your new ground then potentially becomes a current carrying conductor and you surely don't want that.
mmckenna
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BHarvey is right on.
Do NOT disconnect the existing ground connection. There may be stray voltage on there and you don't want that finding another path to ground. Leave it connected.
Install a new rod for your radios. Bond that rod to the ground bus inside the panel if you cannot find the building rod (or rebar, as he points out).
I live in a house that is built on slab. There's a length of rebar sticking up out of the foundation that the entrance panel is connected to. If you cannot locate something similar, then new rod, bonded to the existing ground bus.
And I'll mention it again, since we don't know your skill level:
A licensed electrician is a good investment.
Do NOT disconnect the existing ground connection. There may be stray voltage on there and you don't want that finding another path to ground. Leave it connected.
Install a new rod for your radios. Bond that rod to the ground bus inside the panel if you cannot find the building rod (or rebar, as he points out).
I live in a house that is built on slab. There's a length of rebar sticking up out of the foundation that the entrance panel is connected to. If you cannot locate something similar, then new rod, bonded to the existing ground bus.
And I'll mention it again, since we don't know your skill level:
A licensed electrician is a good investment.
