Tram 1280 dual band vertical grounding

[KO3Y]

What is the downside (besides getting fried) of breaking the seal and taking a peak inside the panel under the meter?

(Much of the heavy gauge wiring you see in the picture and half of the conduit on the wall is my permitted handy work
installing a 60A subpanel in the garage, an electric wall oven & a heat pump for the garage. The other half of the stuff is from the
pros that installed the 7KW solar system. So I at least have survived to 71 by respecting 240A 200A service.)

 

[KO3Y]

I had better make clear....
That #6 wire in the picture of the equip terminal block is the wire I installed that runs out of the panel and over to the ground rod at the antenna mast.

 

[mmckenna]

Likely you'll find that it is technically the "utility side" and where they make their connection. They may get suspicious that someone was bypassing the meter.
That's worst case.

But I wouldn't mess around in there, and I wouldn't attach your ground in there.

 

[mmckenna]

I had better make clear....
That #6 wire in the picture of the equip terminal block is the wire I installed that runs out of the panel and over to the ground rod at the antenna mast.

So, wait, you already have a ground rod and antenna mast?

Is this new antenna going at a different location? Seems like you already figured this all out already?

 

[KO3Y]

I can't tell from your photo but I'd like to point something out: In your service panel there should be both a neutral buss and a ground buss. While they are electrically connected at the panel, usually via one bonding screw, you should make sure that your new wire is connected to the ground buss if you're going to stick with your plan.

Well yea that is how current panels may be constructed, as is my subpanel is. But this panel is 31 years old. There is one neutral bar from the
meter side that runs under the breakers to the right of the breakers which attaches to a vertical screw block. ALL bare and white wires
entering the box terminate randomly along that single block. I see nothing attached to that that is reminiscent of a earth wire that would run
to a rod. That is why is suspected that it ran out of the other side of the panel. I could break the seal and take a peek, but ...

I appreciate your comment about skill level. Half of the heavy gauge #6 & #10 and conduit on the wall was my handy work installing
a 60A sub-panel and heat pump in the garage shop and an electric wall oven. (all permitted and inspected of course). The other
half is from the pros that installed the 7KW solar EV system.

 

[KO3Y]

@ mmcenna

So, wait, you already have a ground rod and antenna mast?

Is this new antenna going at a different location? Seems like you already figured this all out already?

You all are great to put up with this back & forth from me!
Another picture. Should have been first. I hope it makes sense.
When I was a novice in the 70's I dont remember worrying so much about this. Times change.

 

[AK9R]

I am not an authority on the National Electric Code, so I could be wrong about this.

Your electric utility runs three wires to most houses: two hot lines (L1 and L2) and a neutral. L1 to N or L2 to N gets you 120 VAC. L1 to L2 gets you 240 VAC. You will note that there's no ground wire run to your house by the electric utility.

At the first main disconnect panel, i.e. the panel that has the main breaker, the neutral (N) needs to be connected to a ground (G), i.e. bonded. That panel could be your load center, aka breaker panel. However, if there's a main disconnect in a panel upstream from the "breaker" panel in your house, the neutral to ground bond will be there, not in your breaker panel.

If you find that neutral and ground are connected in your load center, do not disconnect it under any circumstances. If you find that neutral and ground are not connected in your load center, look for that connection in an upstream panel.

In most cases, the ground is a ground rod driven into the ground near the first disconnect panel and a heavy wire is run from the ground tie point in the panel to the ground rod. In newer installations, there will be two ground rods about 8-10 feet apart that are bonded together.

 

[prcguy]

I am not an authority on the National Electric Code, so I could be wrong about this.

Your electric utility runs three wires to most houses: two hot lines (L1 and L2) and a neutral. L1 to N or L2 to N gets you 120 VAC. L1 to L2 gets you 240 VAC. You will note that there's no ground wire run to your house by the electric utility.

At the first main disconnect panel, i.e. the panel that has the main breaker, the neutral (N) needs to be connected to a ground (G), i.e. bonded. That panel could be your load center, aka breaker panel. However, if there's a main disconnect in a panel upstream from the "breaker" panel in your house, the neutral to ground bond will be there, not in your breaker panel.

If you find that neutral and ground are connected in your load center, do not disconnect it under any circumstances. If you find that neutral and ground are not connected in your load center, look for that connection in an upstream panel.

In most cases, the ground is a ground rod driven into the ground near the first disconnect panel and a heavy wire is run from the ground tie point in the panel to the ground rod. In newer installations, there will be two ground rods about 8-10 feet apart that are bonded together.

To add a little more, some new home builds include an UFER ground meaning they bond the foundation rebar to the ground rod to further lower the ground resistance.

 

[bharvey2]

From the photo, it looks like you'd have to remove the meter to get to open the utility side of the electrical enclosure (although I may be wrong on this) You don't want to do that. Utilities can now get alarms when they see this happen and it isn't really worth the visit you'll get. Even if meter removal isn't necessary, you can't make any connections on their side and it exposes you to additional danger.

While it would be ideal to be able to bond your new ground rod to your service's existing ground system at it's ground rod, I think you've done the best that you can with respect to grounding without really tearing into your house.

 

[KO3Y]

@bharvey2
Yes, Im having the area in front of the panel marked today. If I decide to add a new rod near the panel, at least I
will know where not to put it!

 

[KO3Y]

All done with this phase! Got everything marked but house water. Meter is at the street. All PVC to the house. Water guy said "no one" can properly locate PVC without a tracer wire. He suggested to dig 2ft carefully. If you dont find pipes or wires you are probably in the clear. I used a 5ft 1" EMT pipe as a coring tool. Carefully and easily drove it 3ft and found nothing. The 8ft copper clad grounding rod was rather easy to drive considering the amount of rain we have had here!
Thanks for all the suggestions.

All this work is on the right side of the garage & driveway (concrete.) The "shack", unfortunately, has to be on the left side wall. I have a new ground rod there, with a 1" copper pipe on the inside wall to which I am making single point earth grounds to from the work bench. But to get that ground rod tied to the other one requires crossing the driveway. No way I can go under or through it. Does it make sense to run the tie wire up to the roof soffit, across the driveway to the service panel area, back down to the ground and trench to the first rod? (about 45ft).

 

[bharvey2]

It's best to get all of your grounds tied together. Having multiple grounds has the potential to cause "ground loops". These can allow a low voltage potential to be created between those points which can cause problems including but not limited to RF noise.