Transciever RF Antenna Connection out direct to PC Connection in???

[ratfink11]

Hi all,

Not sure this is the correct place to post as this is a very odd question. But here we go.

Here is the theoretical question.

I have a simple Flysky RC Controller for RC Planes, Cars, etc...

I need to know, figure out, if there is a way to remove antennas on both ends (Rc Controller & RC Car Transciever)connect each to a 5g modem converting the RF 2.4ghz signal from the sma coax connections to digital in order to have long distance communication... Essentially bypassing/removing antennas and communicating through 5g modems on each end?

I realize how this sounds, however is there a way to do this?

Thanks
Best Regards

 

[mmckenna]

I need to know, figure out, if there is a way to remove antennas on both ends (Rc Controller & RC Car Transciever)connect each to a 5g modem converting the RF 2.4ghz signal from the sma coax connections to digital in order to have long distance communication... Essentially bypassing/removing antennas and communicating through 5g modems on each end?

I realize how this sounds, however is there a way to do this?

No. The RF output of the RC controller isn't going to interface to a 5G modem.

The 2.4GHz radio in the RC controller is going to be limited by FCC requirements in power, so you are probably at a hard limit there as to increasing range. To extend the range, you'd need to start with a new controller that was designed to give you that range.

 

[ratfink11]

I dont think I explained myself well.

I need to convert connect analog rf signal to digital through a pc, to a cellular modem....

There is a way to do that.

FCC has nothing to do with what im trying to do. Additionally, I dont care, and honestly, Im tired of hearing I CANT, or Not Possible, Then mix in rules from some agencies that have nothing to do with what Im wishing to do.

Im refering to creating a way to connect a (Device) an A/D Converter from the antenna coax connectors, pushing that signal through a pc then out through a cellular modem through a vpn...

Lastly, I see many AD Converters that are directly connected to the Antenna coax connectors to measure through Digital Ocilloscopes.... and if they can correctly convert and measure through a digital scope, then the same can be said for that signal to be pushed through the 5g network....

Then there are the digital usb dongles/soundcards that allow old analog Transciever radios to connect to PCs and communicate over the internet.... This is exactly the same principle....

Wifi Bluetooth, takes an rf signal and converts it to digital for pcs.... same exact thing.... Im looking to do exact same thing here....

Guess Im going it alone.... looks like I made the error of not posting clearly what Im trying to do.... my mistake... and appologies...

 

[mmckenna]

I dont think I explained myself well.


Guess Im going it alone.... looks like I made the error of not posting clearly what Im trying to do.... my mistake... and appologies...

We do the best with what information we are given.

Hard for us to answer when we don't have the full picture.

Doing what you want to do is possible, but it depends on how hard/easy, cheap/expensive, complex/easy you want it to be. Converting RF to another medium is possible, we have systems at work that take a broadband cellular signal, convert it to optical, haul it over fiber, and reverse the process at the far end. Neither cheap nor easy. Not sure there is an easy, consumer grade, off the shelf solution for this.

Without fully understanding what you are trying to accomplish and what the use case is, it would be challenging for anyone to give you a good answer.

 

[ratfink11]

Yes I agree, you are absolutely correct as my explaination is lacking... More so due to very unusual requesr/function...

I think it would be best for me to create a drawing.... which I will post shortly...

 

[paulears]

I think i get it now, you have the usual RC path but want to extend it via the net to somewhere else? The solution could be one of those small dongles. Since its a one-way path, this would convert the RF to something the computer can process. The snag seems to be that what you dont have is the software, and im not sure it exists. If it does, its very niche. You would need to know the data stream makeup, write a routine to convert this to something the computer can stream, then at the other end probably modify a transmitter to take that data stream and send it to the aircraft. Way beyond me, but probably a piece of cake to somebody who does it regularly. Data communication is very common, so i suspect its perfectly possible. Just not off the shelf. Would you need a back channel from the device being controlled so the operator can see what is happening? Remember internet transmission is not continuous, so if feedback is required it gets more complex, i guess? I have seen inputs on some radio controllers, but are they simple contact closure, or do they have the ability to have other devices connected? things like lighting controller can control a moving head fixture from anywhere via network now, so theoretically, you could control a light from anywhere. So its absolutely possible, you just need a clever electronics person. Your problem has nothing to do with our interest area, which is radio. In my head, thats the interesting bit. I know little about writing software.

 

[ratfink11]

 

[ratfink11]

Attached image so this unusual ideal is clearer.... Believe me... I realize how insane this seems... but Im dealing with a large expense from an ahole company who rf 2.4ghz range sux....

So if I can bypass the antennas, connect from sma connectors, to an ad converter to a pc then internet.... Then connect to rc vehicle with same sma to ad converter to pc to internet and simply push data back and forth then it hopefully shouldnt matter how the stream is digitized as long as it comes out the same on other side to rc vehicle....

Im simply trying to figure out a way to not use antennas and pump rf through pcs through internet..... instead of the air....

Also, Im thinking I shouldnt need any software as all im doing is pushing the existing raw signal data back and forth... as long as the data on both ends is the same rf to digital then digital to rf it shouldnt matter how its relayed...???

Maybe it does? This is why im asking this ridiculous question....

My other option is dealing with SDKs, writing a crap ton of code to conmunicate through 5g dongles.. which I dont want to do....

All I think I need to do is to make a direct communication connection to both ends which I already know how to do using a vpn.... its a one to one two way always on full duplex connection in real time... that part Ive already done and working...

The part I dont know how to do is getting that rf signal to a digital one for a pc.... Is it done with an AD Converter? Which Converter?

If I can figure out this part.... then the rest I have already done and working....

 

[paulears]

As I said - the snag is software. Loads of gizmos that will produce a digital waveform, but the implementation is the hard bit. After all, you can drive your Tesla from your mobile phone. I wonder who could write the code for it though?

 

[mmckenna]

Attached image so this unusual ideal is clearer.... Believe me... I realize how insane this seems... but Im dealing with a large expense from an ahole company who rf 2.4ghz range sux....

So if I can bypass the antennas, connect from sma connectors, to an ad converter to a pc then internet.... Then connect to rc vehicle with same sma to ad converter to pc to internet and simply push data back and forth then it hopefully shouldnt matter how the stream is digitized as long as it comes out the same on other side to rc vehicle....

Im simply trying to figure out a way to not use antennas and pump rf through pcs through internet..... instead of the air....

How is the remotely controlled vehicle going to connect to the internet?

Reason I'm asking:
2.4GHz, as I mentioned above, is very short range by design/rule.
If the vehicle still needs a wireless connection to the internet, you are back to dealing with antennas and radios, even if it's 5G.

There may be easier/cheaper ways to do this using other bands. As mentioned above, the software to make this work the way you have it drawn out is going to be a challenge.

 

[ratfink11]

I still think Im not explaining this clear enough, even with the image....

Ill try another way....scenario

WW3 has happened, the world has been nookd....

Imagine all you have is a cheap kmart toy walkie talkie....

Your daughter 1000 miles away in safety has the other pink toy version of the same walkie talkie....

Of course your too far away to conmunicate but the internet still works....

So, you rip off the antenna of yohr walkie talkie, connect an sma connector to some sort of A/D Converter, then connect to your pc.... your daughter does the same on her end....

Then you press the button on your talkie, and transmit your voice through the internet to your daughters talkie....

and she hears you say.... Dont get married until your 30.... and you drop ded from radiation exposure....

For now, look at diagram... remove the 5g modem....

All I need to know is how to connect from the antenna jack rf analog out to a computer... thats it... the rest I have figured out...

Do I need an AD Converter? Which one? This is the only part of the equation I need an answer to...

Even more basic.... how is an RF Analog radio signal converted to use through a computer over the internet instead of the airwaves? Is an AD Converter needed? Which one?

Lastly, pretend I already have a drone pilots license/cert and waivers to fly bvlos anywhere on the planet, moon, mars, etc.... which I actually do...

All I need to do is to figure out how to get any rf analog radio signal using the sma connector from the radio then digital to computer....

Software in this case shouldnt be needed... as long as the raw data isnt changed on both ends it wont matter. If AD Converters are needed and they speak french in digital... the data will be the same on both ends.... if you say hello in english and its converted to french (Bonjour) then translated from french back to english its still HELLO....

Im thinkin were over thinking or I have no clue which is why I posted in the first place... 😁

 

[prcguy]

The bandwidth of the RF signal is far too large to capture and send over the internet but you can demodulate the signal, digitize the information if it’s not already 1s and 0s then send that as packets or whatever. You would then have to modulate it back onto an RF carrier at the other end. Probably easier to just tap into the transmitter and grab the information before it’s modulated.

 

[ratfink11]

Yes, and this is the question... How do I do that? If I have the answer to this question then thats all I need..

 

[mmckenna]

Yes, and this is the question... How do I do that? If I have the answer to this question then thats all I need..

I'm not sure any of us can assist you here. I feel like you are thinking there is some cheap/easy consumer grade product/component that just attaches to the antenna connector and coverts RF to an internet protocol data stream. What it sounds like you are thinking is that there is a product/simple project that takes RF in and spits IP out. There are remote control receivers that will allow you to listen to radio traffic remotely, but doing that with a data stream and recreating it at the far end is going to be a challenge and come with some interesting regulatory requirements.

In general terms, this is referred to as "RoIP" or "Radio over IP". This is commonly done with voice radio systems. Usually the capability is built directly into the radio repeaters or very specific end user radio devices. These intercept the audio stream before it reaches the actual radio part, and sends the audio as a data stream directly over the internet to another repeater/radio that takes the IP stream, converts it back to audio, and feeds it to the repeater/radio for transmission.

I'm not aware of a data/remote control type device that does this, but R/C ain't my thing, so maybe I'm missing something.
It seems that the easier way to do this would be to just control said device from a computer, over the internet, to the far end and directly to the device.

In other words, not a simple solution, we're not sure what your skill level or budget is, and honestly not sure if there is any easy way to do this the way you are proposing. Skipping some of the RF side of this seem like it would be an easier approach, as in a remote control software on a computer that would feed whatever product you are trying to control over existing wireless/cellular data networks. Not sure that there is a product that does this with consumer type devices.

 

[prcguy]

Yes, and this is the question... How do I do that? If I have the answer to this question then thats all I need..

There is probably no plug and play solution, you would have to identify and analyze the modulated information then find the best way to translate that to IP packets then back to its original form to get retransmitted. There may be off the shelf hardware for some parts, maybe none. But in the end it should be possible.

 

[prcguy]

Thinking about this more, there are “drone shows” where lots of drones are simultaneously controlled by a PC, so the waveforms and getting them from a PC to a transmitter is already figured out. Maybe you can research hardware used for drone shows.

 

[ratfink11]

Thankyou, this is very helpful info.

Ive never stated this was easy... the problem stems with my lack of knowledge and being able to explain it clearly...

I can access the electronics, a have identified where data is transmitted prior to being modulated..

Im also wondering if I can use similar ROIP devices to work similarly...

Thankyou again for the detailed explaination.

 

[prcguy]

Thankyou, this is very helpful info.

Ive never stated this was easy... the problem stems with my lack of knowledge and being able to explain it clearly...

I can access the electronics, a have identified where data is transmitted prior to being modulated..

Im also wondering if I can use similar ROIP devices to work similarly...

Thankyou again for the detailed explaination.

If the drone control information resided within the audio band then a ROIP device might work, but it I think modern controllers send digital 1s and 0s to the transmitter which would not be compatible with ROIP.

 

[KevinC]

I still think Im not explaining this clear enough, even with the image....

Ill try another way....scenario

WW3 has happened, the world has been nookd....

Imagine all you have is a cheap kmart toy walkie talkie....

Your daughter 1000 miles away in safety has the other pink toy version of the same walkie talkie....

Of course your too far away to conmunicate but the internet still works....

So, you rip off the antenna of yohr walkie talkie, connect an sma connector to some sort of A/D Converter, then connect to your pc.... your daughter does the same on her end....

Then you press the button on your talkie, and transmit your voice through the internet to your daughters talkie....

and she hears you say.... Dont get married until your 30.... and you drop ded from radiation exposure....

For now, look at diagram... remove the 5g modem....

All I need to know is how to connect from the antenna jack rf analog out to a computer... thats it... the rest I have figured out...

Do I need an AD Converter? Which one? This is the only part of the equation I need an answer to...

Even more basic.... how is an RF Analog radio signal converted to use through a computer over the internet instead of the airwaves? Is an AD Converter needed? Which one?

Lastly, pretend I already have a drone pilots license/cert and waivers to fly bvlos anywhere on the planet, moon, mars, etc.... which I actually do...

All I need to do is to figure out how to get any rf analog radio signal using the sma connector from the radio then digital to computer....

Software in this case shouldnt be needed... as long as the raw data isnt changed on both ends it wont matter. If AD Converters are needed and they speak french in digital... the data will be the same on both ends.... if you say hello in english and its converted to french (Bonjour) then translated from french back to english its still HELLO....

Im thinkin were over thinking or I have no clue which is why I posted in the first place... 😁

If the "internet" is still up why not just use something like Zello over WiFI?

 

[BinaryMode]

Couple of suggestions if I may.

If you're trying to get direct answers rather than constant search engine searches, try ChatGPT. You may be pleasantly surprised.

You may be interested in LoRa communications. It's long distance communications using spread spectrum on the ISM frequencies.

LoRa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As to putting it altogether I haven't the slightest, but I know damn well it can be done.

One other thing. If the board on that RC has battery life data you may want to feed that to your computer/tablet/phone as well...