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Trisquare 900mhz Radios

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cdesigns

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Clermont, FL
I don't know where to put this since there is no area for this radios so I thought GMRS was the closest.

I just bought a pair of this radios because of the privacy I can get and for the 1 watt of power, I have read that they work very good on line of sight, but not to good between buildings etc.

My plan is to mod them, I just removed the stock spring antenna and added a SMA connector so I can add better 900mhz antennas.

Right now I'm using a small antenna from my cellphone jammer (I know I know they are illegal, that's why I'm using parts from the jammer for this project, like the SMA connectors) Jammer is dead :).

I will be testing them in different areas, the Nihm batteries that came with it are a joke 4.8v 750mAh, I will be using a higher capacity battery in some of the test to see if I can push more than 1 watt, I have no way to measure it but transmitting distance should improve if I'm right.

Text message is nice to have.

Here is a video my scanner trying to scan the trisquare frequency, NO LUCK. at one moment it stopped for maybe 2 seconds but when I transmitted I couldn't hear my voice.

YouTube - Trisquare Radios, and my Scanner

Some pics







Here is the radio with my scanner antenna a little big but it's for testing only.

 
Last edited:

Chris-KH2PM

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Messages
240
Location
Wake Co. NC
I've had a pair of the TriSquare TSX300s for a few months, and find them to be interesting units. Thankfully they accept three AA batteries. I've used them out on a roadtrip and we were able to get over a mile from car to car on fairly flat terrain. FHSS is the main reason I was interested, as well as the text messaging capabilities. The lightweight design limits them to novelty status for me though, because they feel like they're flimsy and prone to damage and scuffs, and not water resistant. The texting takes some patience, but I like techy stuff. :) Otherwise they're neat radios.

Using a spectrum analyzer, the FHSS properties can be seen. I also compared a MOTOROLA cellphone with DirecTalk enabled (also FHSS 900mhz). Due to obvious FH-CDMA differences there is no way to communicate between them. Here is a (lame, I know) video of the oscilloscope test.

YouTube - KH2PM's Channel

Your antenna mod looks pretty slick! Let us know the results.
 

cdesigns

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
0
Location
Clermont, FL
I've had a pair of the TriSquare TSX300s for a few months, and find them to be interesting units. Thankfully they accept three AA batteries. I've used them out on a roadtrip and we were able to get over a mile from car to car on fairly flat terrain. FHSS is the main reason I was interested, as well as the text messaging capabilities. The lightweight design limits them to novelty status for me though, because they feel like they're flimsy and prone to damage and scuffs, and not water resistant. The texting takes some patience, but I like techy stuff. :) Otherwise they're neat radios.

Using a spectrum analyzer, the FHSS properties can be seen. I also compared a MOTOROLA cellphone with DirecTalk enabled (also FHSS 900mhz). Due to obvious FH-CDMA differences there is no way to communicate between them. Here is a (lame, I know) video of the oscilloscope test.

YouTube - KH2PM's Channel

Your antenna mod looks pretty slick! Let us know the results.
I ordered 2 900mhz motorola antennas but they are SMA FEMALE same as the radio SMA adapter that I just installed, so I may end up buying a male to male adapters to test the antenna's, if they work I will change the SMA on the radio.

1 watt of power with AA alkaline's or high capacity AA NIHMs should perfom very good with the right antenna.

Sometimes people don't know that when you use a high mAh battery you will get more usage time but also better performance when transmiting.
 
Last edited:

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
What type of range do these have? I've been looking at them for a while as a cheap alternative for the County CERT team for community events (parades, park patrols ect)
 

cdesigns

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Messages
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Location
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I have no idea of the range yet, I test them for about 1/2 mile with batteries half charge and they were loosing signal, my wife was inside the home, and I was inside the car, and we were transmitting thru some pines and houses also.

I will be testing them a lot but with the 900mhz motorola antennas, and post my review.
 

RayAir

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
1,773
I don't know where to put this since there is no area for this radios so I thought GMRS was the closest.

I just bought a pair of this radios because of the privacy I can get and for the 1 watt of power, I have read that they work very good on line of sight, but not to good between buildings etc.

My plan is to mod them, I just removed the stock spring antenna and added a SMA connector so I can add better 900mhz antennas.

Right now I'm using a small antenna from my cellphone jammer (I know I know they are illegal, that's why I'm using parts from the jammer for this project, like the SMA connectors) Jammer is dead :).

I will be testing them in different areas, the Nihm batteries that came with it are a joke 4.8v 750mAh, I will be using a higher capacity battery in some of the test to see if I can push more than 1 watt, I have no way to measure it but transmitting distance should improve if I'm right.

Text message is nice to have.

Here is a video my scanner trying to scan the trisquare frequency, NO LUCK. at one moment it stopped for maybe 2 seconds but when I transmitted I couldn't hear my voice.

YouTube - Trisquare Radios, and my Scanner

Some pics







Here is the radio with my scanner antenna a little big but it's for testing only.


Nice modification!!

That was my only gripe about these radios is that they only were sold with the tiny, fixed antenna. Well, actually I had another major gripe. TriSquare advertises these radios as being digital. They are not digital. They use analog FM with frequency hopping (2.5 frequency hops p/sec).

I ended up going with the Motorola DTR 550's with the longer 900MHz whips and the fact that they utilize VSELP digital voice. However, for the money, the TriSquare is an excellent value.
 

RayAir

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
1,773
I've had a pair of the TriSquare TSX300s for a few months, and find them to be interesting units. Thankfully they accept three AA batteries. I've used them out on a roadtrip and we were able to get over a mile from car to car on fairly flat terrain. FHSS is the main reason I was interested, as well as the text messaging capabilities. The lightweight design limits them to novelty status for me though, because they feel like they're flimsy and prone to damage and scuffs, and not water resistant. The texting takes some patience, but I like techy stuff. :) Otherwise they're neat radios.

Using a spectrum analyzer, the FHSS properties can be seen. I also compared a MOTOROLA cellphone with DirecTalk enabled (also FHSS 900mhz). Due to obvious FH-CDMA differences there is no way to communicate between them. Here is a (lame, I know) video of the oscilloscope test.

YouTube - KH2PM's Channel

Your antenna mod looks pretty slick! Let us know the results.
I saw your test and here's some specs:

TriSquare:
frequency hopping rate: 400mS (2.5 hops p/sec)
analog FM

Motorola DTR (very similar to direct connect)
frequency hopping rate: 90mS ( roughly 11 hops p/sec)
VSELP digital voice

A surveillance receiver can lock on to both of the above radios FH scheme.(not sure why the audio came out a little funny, must have to do with the TriSquare using a narrow bandwidth or something?)
TriSqaure eXRS radio transmission as heard on a surveillance receiver:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YCj_SgrhTUq8OohfIWPwLZTVfTCHS1CsbBF-nLg-roB7-UGzt2NPfYw3y5_aOUgQNvCdPpFeLNJVJoMTzNldWA/Trisquare FHSS Intercepted Audio.wav

Motorola DTR 550 radio transmission as heard on a surveillance receiver (all you can hear is some sort of data exchange at the beginning and then just digital noise):
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YCj_SrgpH268OohfFYyiigVV34f9J1erfUNdN-EZ1cnDjI1oGw1nH_lEgWBbRD1FQqSCmW83vkG9a17zn9WP-w/Motorola DTR 550 FHSS Intercepted Audio.wav
 
Last edited:

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
8,090
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
What "surveillance receiver" can decode and listen to a Trisquare? The link is not working.
prcguy



I saw your test and here's some specs:

TriSquare:
frequency hopping rate: 400mS (2.5 hops p/sec)
analog FM

Motorola DTR (very similar to direct connect)
frequency hopping rate: 90mS ( roughly 11 hops p/sec)
VSELP digital voice

A surveillance receiver can lock on to both of the above radios FH scheme.(not sure why the audio came out a little funny, must have to do with the TriSquare using a narrow bandwidth or something?)
TriSqaure eXRS radio transmission as heard on a surveillance receiver:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YCj_SgrhTUq8OohfIWPwLZTVfTCHS1CsbBF-nLg-roB7-UGzt2NPfYw3y5_aOUgQNvCdPpFeLNJVJoMTzNldWA/Trisquare FHSS Intercepted Audio.wav

Motorola DTR 550 radio transmission as heard on a surveillance receiver (all you can hear is some sort of data exchange at the beginning and then just digital noise):
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YCj_SrgpH268OohfFYyiigVV34f9J1erfUNdN-EZ1cnDjI1oGw1nH_lEgWBbRD1FQqSCmW83vkG9a17zn9WP-w/Motorola DTR 550 FHSS Intercepted Audio.wav
 

James_Bond_007

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Premium Subscriber
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Messages
5
Location
Lakewood, Co 80235
have a single DTR radio. got it for $5.00. waiting for another deal like this to come along. anyone have a DTR they want to get rid of cheap?

i would love to try out DTR's. i am 1/2 way there. i thought the TriSqures were cheap garbage just like FRS stuff. Seeing those internal pic's confirms my assumption.

i think the sma trick with a 1/2 wave 900 mhz dipole rubber duck antenna on some DTR radios and you will have something.

why they did not do this to begin with i don't know. 900 mhz FHSS allows up to 1 Watt and 6db antenna gain under part 15.

motorola should have offered removable antenna's for their DTR series. give the customer a choice of a stubby 1/4 wave or 3 db dipole.

other than that i like the look and feel of the DTR i have. when i get another one i will be able to chime in on the actual operation of one.

ps: you probably already know this, but you voided your part 15 certification and your warranty with that mod.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
have a single DTR radio. got it for $5.00. waiting for another deal like this to come along. anyone have a DTR they want to get rid of cheap?

i would love to try out DTR's. i am 1/2 way there. i thought the TriSqures were cheap garbage just like FRS stuff. Seeing those internal pic's confirms my assumption.

i think the sma trick with a 1/2 wave 900 mhz dipole rubber duck antenna on some DTR radios and you will have something.

why they did not do this to begin with i don't know. 900 mhz FHSS allows up to 1 Watt and 6db antenna gain under part 15.

motorola should have offered removable antenna's for their DTR series. give the customer a choice of a stubby 1/4 wave or 3 db dipole.

other than that i like the look and feel of the DTR i have. when i get another one i will be able to chime in on the actual operation of one.

ps: you probably already know this, but you voided your part 15 certification and your warranty with that mod.

So with a 900MHZ antenna would one be able to cover say 50,000 to 500,000 Sq. Feet out doors? or maybe 20 square acres unobstructed and level terrain?

I believe these really just use the older 900MHz cordless phone frequencies and DSS (Digital Spread Spectrum) Basically its the same concept as SINCARS or HAVEQUICK just minus the technical stuff.
 
Last edited:

SkipSanders

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,058
No antenna on the radio itself is going to increase the range of a handheld significantly. You can only decrease the range by putting an improper antenna on, or one that doesn't match the designed internal matching system of the radio, which may or may not happen with you replacing the legal antenna on these radios with a 'wrong' antenna which won't match what the radio was designed for.

Some radios expect a matched antenna, and won't mind you changing it. Radios like yours, which are legally not allowed to have changable antennas, sometimes use non-matched antennas which are matched by internal components. I've no idea if that applies to the Tri-Star units or not, though.

Range is line of sight, which is generally 1/2 to 2 miles for a handheld, unless you're standing on a hill, or talking to a base with a higher level antenna, or in the case of these units, a handheld on a hill, since there are no bases for these radios.

The '28 mile range' you see in the wildly incorrect statements of promotional material for GMRS handhelds, for instance, applies only if both radios are on 200 foot high hills, with nothing in between them, at least for reliable communications.

The Tri-Star units are not digital modulation, by the way. They're frequency hopping analog FM.
 
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cdesigns

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Clermont, FL
No antenna on the radio itself is going to increase the range of a handheld significantly. You can only decrease the range by putting an improper antenna on, or one that doesn't match the designed internal matching system of the radio, which may or may not happen with you replacing the legal antenna on these radios with a 'wrong' antenna which won't match what the radio was designed for.

Some radios expect a matched antenna, and won't mind you changing it. Radios like yours, which are legally not allowed to have changable antennas, sometimes use non-matched antennas which are matched by internal components. I've no idea if that applies to the Tri-Star units or not, though.

Range is line of sight, which is generally 1/2 to 2 miles for a handheld, unless you're standing on a hill, or talking to a base with a higher level antenna, or in the case of these units, a handheld on a hill, since there are no bases for these radios.

The '28 mile range' you see in the wildly incorrect statements of promotional material for GMRS handhelds, for instance, applies only if both radios are on 200 foot high hills, with nothing in between them, at least for reliable communications.

The Tri-Star units are not digital modulation, by the way. They're frequency hopping analog FM.
So you're saying the motorola antennas rated 896-941 MHz that I bought, would not perform better than the spring antenna this radio came with? The trisquare if I'm not mistaken work between 902-928mhz so I think the antennas will work ok.

I think changing the antenna will improve the transmitting range, it have worked before on my bubble pack GMRS radios

PS: Where in Part 15 says that I can't remove the fixed antenna? the only thing that I found is that I can't use more than 1 watt of power and the antenna should be 6dBi or less and I can use directional
 
Last edited:

SkipSanders

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,058
The designer of the unit has options about what antenna to design. That section however does not allow you to modify a part 15 intentional radiator of this type.

No, changing the antenna will give no significant effect on a handheld. It may provide very minor gains (at the expense of being more sensitive to how the unit is held and the antenna aligned), but for this sort of unit, a half watt into a basic antenna will go 100 miles... if it's line of sight. If it's not in line of sight, it's not going to work.

The regulation about intentional radiators:

Sec. 15.203 Antenna requirement.

An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
the device. The use of a permanently attached antenna or of an antenna
that uses a unique coupling to the intentional radiator shall be
considered sufficient to comply with the provisions of this section. The
manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
electrical connector is prohibited. This requirement does not apply to
carrier current devices or to devices operated under the provisions of
Sec. 15.211, Sec. 15.213, Sec. 15.217, Sec. 15.219, or Sec. 15.221.
Further, this requirement does not apply to intentional radiators that
must be professionally installed, such as perimeter protection systems
and some field disturbance sensors, or to other intentional radiators
which, in accordance with Sec. 15.31(d), must be measured at the
installation site. However, the installer shall be responsible for
ensuring that the proper antenna is employed so that the limits in this
part are not exceeded.

[54 FR 17714, Apr. 25, 1989, as amended at 55 FR 28762, July 13, 1990]

(None of those sections, before you ask, has any relation to 902-928 MHz devices)
 

cdesigns

Member
Joined
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Messages
0
Location
Clermont, FL
The designer of the unit has options about what antenna to design. That section however does not allow you to modify a part 15 intentional radiator of this type.

No, changing the antenna will give no significant effect on a handheld. It may provide very minor gains (at the expense of being more sensitive to how the unit is held and the antenna aligned), but for this sort of unit, a half watt into a basic antenna will go 100 miles... if it's line of sight. If it's not in line of sight, it's not going to work.

The regulation about intentional radiators:

Sec. 15.203 Antenna requirement.

An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
the device. The use of a permanently attached antenna or of an antenna
that uses a unique coupling to the intentional radiator shall be
considered sufficient to comply with the provisions of this section. The
manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
electrical connector is prohibited. This requirement does not apply to
carrier current devices or to devices operated under the provisions of
Sec. 15.211, Sec. 15.213, Sec. 15.217, Sec. 15.219, or Sec. 15.221.
Further, this requirement does not apply to intentional radiators that
must be professionally installed, such as perimeter protection systems
and some field disturbance sensors, or to other intentional radiators
which, in accordance with Sec. 15.31(d), must be measured at the
installation site. However, the installer shall be responsible for
ensuring that the proper antenna is employed so that the limits in this
part are not exceeded.

[54 FR 17714, Apr. 25, 1989, as amended at 55 FR 28762, July 13, 1990]

(None of those sections, before you ask, has any relation to 902-928 MHz devices)
To tell you the thruth some FCC regulation are very hard to understand, Section 15.247 paragrahp 4 that's were I saw the 6dBi regulation. I don't think my new antenna mod will affect other systems so.

And upgrading the antenna will help on range regardless, larger 900mhz antenna with more gain will receive transmitions better, it will help either transmiting or receiving is common sense. Either way I hope the modification works
.
 

cdesigns

Member
Joined
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Messages
0
Location
Clermont, FL
A little update, I received the new antennas and finished the antenna mod on the radios

I will be testing these radios during the week on my trip to PR, I will be also taking (2) motorola frs/gmrs radios and (2) i355 nextel radios in direct talk mode. I will try to make the best test/comparison possible.

Test will be:

Line of sight
Mountain to ground
between buildings





 

KD8DVR

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
1,126
Location
Columbus, Ohio
What type of range do these have? I've been looking at them for a while as a cheap alternative for the County CERT team for community events (parades, park patrols ect)
I've got about 1.25 miles consistently outdoors in a typical suburban environment. At Disney world, we had constant communications through the entire Magic Kingdom with no loss of communications. Also, indoors they worked great inside several hotels, from rooms no higher then the third floor through the lobby. I use them exclusively now instead of GMRS.
 

cdesigns

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
0
Location
Clermont, FL
Ok I have been Signal Stalking the frequencies on this radios, I got hundreds of "stalks" and most of the frequencies repeat several times.

This is what I found:

Frequency range is 902.0250mhz - 927.7750mhz, there is a total of 104 frequencies.

After several signal stalking I saw that the offset is 0.2500mhz.

Example:
902.0250
902.2750
902.5250
902.7750
903.0250 etc.

Here is the frequencies if you want to copy paste and try them. I tried scanning them on my PRO-137 and I can hear my voice very fast as soon I lock on in one of the frequencies. but my scanner is not that fast scanning so.

Here is the frequencies

902.0250
902.2750
902.5250
902.7750
903.0250
903.2750
903.5250
903.7750
904.0250
904.2750
904.5250
904.7750
905.0250
905.2750
905.5250
905.7750
906.0250
906.2750
906.5250
906.7750
907.0250
907.2750
907.5250
907.7750
908.0250
908.2750
908.5250
908.7750
909.0250
909.2750
909.5250
909.7750
910.0250
910.2750
910.5250
910.7750
911.0250
911.2750
911.5250
911.7750
912.0250
912.2750
912.5250
912.7750
913.0250
913.2750
913.5250
913.7750
914.0250
914.2750
914.5250
914.7750
915.0250
915.2750
915.5250
915.7750
916.0250
916.2750
916.5250
916.7750
917.0250
917.2750
917.5250
917.7750
918.0250
918.2750
918.5250
918.7750
919.0250
919.2750
919.5250
919.7750
920.0250
920.2750
920.5250
920.7750
921.0250
921.2750
921.5250
921.7750
922.0250
922.2750
922.5250
922.7750
923.0250
923.2750
923.5250
923.7750
924.0250
924.2750
924.5250
924.7750
925.0250
925.2750
925.5250
925.7750
926.0250
926.2750
926.5250
926.7750
927.0250
927.5250
927.7750
 
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