Quite well about 3 bars on my radio shack scanner at 2000 ft and not bad at 1500 ft at my other scanner South western part of county.
Troop F Repeater On...ANyone else Notice ?
- Thread starter Mtnrider
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Spec
Member
Okay in case I missed it, any PL or DCS ?
Havent paid attention long enough for a PL i would assume its 2Z like the other bases
Now it makes sense why you hear everything so well up there, anything at 2000 ft will sound great! Enjoy!
Spec
Member
Thanks Mt.
I noticed this am it was Zone 3's turn to try out the repeater. Highland talking to units in town of hurley...
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
They have sites up on Liberty and Overlook as well, so I'm guessing they are not transmitting to Schunnemunk to come back to Ulster County. Although at your elevation, you could hit SMK with 1 watt and a wet noodle ! They are using a different PL to access the repeater on SMK (not the troop wide PL 110.9 or Zone 2 PL 146.2), so are they using another unique PL for the other sites or voting the receivers ? Inquiring minds want to know.
The repeater on Overlook that's licensed there is not 155.535.....i think its 154.905.....i haven't looked in awhile...but right now Zone 2 is using it...a lot of wrecks due to ice...
Maybe someone can explain this to me, but in a traditional repeater system there is an input and an output right? Yet listening to troop F I am hearing both cars and SP Middletown on the base to car frequency and car to base frequency. Can someone explain in a technical sense how this system is set up
Middletown would be using the same base it uses to talk car to base/base to car......different PL tone to activate repeater.....i am surprised they didn't use another input frequency as to not interfere with the other bases... love hearing all that from down there after all the years i worked down that way
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
The cars are trasmitting on the car to base frequency (aka repeater input) using a unique PL which activates the repeater. The base "should" still be transmitting on the BASE (aka repeater output) frequency if the system is set up correctly...
Why? First and foremost...officer safety. If the base is transmitting on the repeater input, the base wins. Bases are more powerful than mobiles and portables which means others (especially those that have an EMERGENCY) can't talk in ! If set up correctly, the base should be listening to the INPUT for emergency traffic on an unmuted speaker while they are transmitting. This way, even if the base is talking, I can still key up my portable and call for help and the base will hear me (if you listen to NYPD radio traffic, you'll hear that console speaker in the background when the dispatcher keeps standing on the foot mic).
This set up can be accomplished through T-1, RF link, etc. with microwave being the preferred method. So the base will actually be keying the repeater OUTPUT from a microwave link from the console to the mountaintop. The mobiles and portables transmit on the INPUT, which is repeated on the OUTPUT from the moutaintop (at a higher wattage and elevation so other portables and mobiles can hear). That same signal gets tranmitted simultaneously back to the base via RF or T-1 link to the dispatch console. Trunking systems are set up a bit differenly by using prioroty "overrides" which give the portables and mobiles priority over the base for this same reason.
I can tell you that many systems in Orange County are NOT set up this way. For example, Orange County EMS Reponse has mutiple repeaters throughout the County, all activated by different input PLs on the same input frequency. The base listens to ONE output (153.860 PL 77.0) and is set up transmit to the different sites by using different modules in the console set to the various input PLs by site. This is why you hear "loud and clear on all towers" on radio checks (even though the field unit is only transmitting on one) or why you will hear a unit call on Beacon and get answered on Graham. Not to get off topic as I'm just trying to explain how NYSP Middletown SHOULD be set up. But I know their vendor and that vendor has a reputation for setting systems up the incorrect way (maybe they will tune the next duplexer right the first time too).
Why? First and foremost...officer safety. If the base is transmitting on the repeater input, the base wins. Bases are more powerful than mobiles and portables which means others (especially those that have an EMERGENCY) can't talk in ! If set up correctly, the base should be listening to the INPUT for emergency traffic on an unmuted speaker while they are transmitting. This way, even if the base is talking, I can still key up my portable and call for help and the base will hear me (if you listen to NYPD radio traffic, you'll hear that console speaker in the background when the dispatcher keeps standing on the foot mic).
This set up can be accomplished through T-1, RF link, etc. with microwave being the preferred method. So the base will actually be keying the repeater OUTPUT from a microwave link from the console to the mountaintop. The mobiles and portables transmit on the INPUT, which is repeated on the OUTPUT from the moutaintop (at a higher wattage and elevation so other portables and mobiles can hear). That same signal gets tranmitted simultaneously back to the base via RF or T-1 link to the dispatch console. Trunking systems are set up a bit differenly by using prioroty "overrides" which give the portables and mobiles priority over the base for this same reason.
I can tell you that many systems in Orange County are NOT set up this way. For example, Orange County EMS Reponse has mutiple repeaters throughout the County, all activated by different input PLs on the same input frequency. The base listens to ONE output (153.860 PL 77.0) and is set up transmit to the different sites by using different modules in the console set to the various input PLs by site. This is why you hear "loud and clear on all towers" on radio checks (even though the field unit is only transmitting on one) or why you will hear a unit call on Beacon and get answered on Graham. Not to get off topic as I'm just trying to explain how NYSP Middletown SHOULD be set up. But I know their vendor and that vendor has a reputation for setting systems up the incorrect way (maybe they will tune the next duplexer right the first time too).
Lets get a few things straightened out here:
What the barracks use is called a control station, when using the repeater.
The proper way to engineer rhe system is to use 4 wire audio with console priority.
Your kinda stating that but you mixing a few things up. The mode of transport is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's RTL(radio tie line) T1 or microwave. It should be engineered for 4 wire and console priority.
What the barracks use is called a control station, when using the repeater.
The proper way to engineer rhe system is to use 4 wire audio with console priority.
Your kinda stating that but you mixing a few things up. The mode of transport is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's RTL(radio tie line) T1 or microwave. It should be engineered for 4 wire and console priority.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
I should have been a little more specific in regards to how a typical set-up works but didn't want to make it sound more confusing than it is to the average listener, hence the "base" vs "control station", "4-wire" etc. I was using the "base" term because thats how people have been familair with the system (car to base, base to car frequency).
SP Middletown is transmitting on 154.935 into Schunnemunk, not 4-wire. Why they aren't 4-wire, I have no idea.
Again, I should have been a bit more specific. Pushing the emergency button on the portable will give a priority override to the subscriber unit over the consolette.
ASTRO 25 systems with MCC 7500 consoles are inherently 4-wire operation. When the dispatcher is transmitting on a talkgroup, they are keying the repeaters directly for that resource; same principle as controlling a repeater with 4-wire...no input frequency involved for the console. If a subscriber unit keys up while the console is transmitting, that audio will be heard through the select speaker on the consoles, but at no time will it "override" the console/base.
When you setup priorities in an ASTRO 25 system, that pertains exclusively to the subscriber units. The consolette has a higher priority than the portables/mobiles so that they can override open mics.
Better?
SP Middletown is transmitting on 154.935 into Schunnemunk, not 4-wire. Why they aren't 4-wire, I have no idea.
signal-zero said:
Again, I should have been a bit more specific. Pushing the emergency button on the portable will give a priority override to the subscriber unit over the consolette.
ASTRO 25 systems with MCC 7500 consoles are inherently 4-wire operation. When the dispatcher is transmitting on a talkgroup, they are keying the repeaters directly for that resource; same principle as controlling a repeater with 4-wire...no input frequency involved for the console. If a subscriber unit keys up while the console is transmitting, that audio will be heard through the select speaker on the consoles, but at no time will it "override" the console/base.
When you setup priorities in an ASTRO 25 system, that pertains exclusively to the subscriber units. The consolette has a higher priority than the portables/mobiles so that they can override open mics.
Better?
I would say that since repeater usage is relatively new for the State Police, they are probably working on setting up radio tie lines to key up the transmitter. With that said, since T-1 and phone lines do go down from time to time, RF will always get the job done so that's most likely why they are transmitting on the input.
I don't think it's fair to blame NYCOMCO since the State Police has engineers that set up the system, NYCOMCO just services it. All these changes are interesting and I hope they get the rest of the Troop on repeaters.
Channel 16 is Overlook Mtn Ch 17 is "For Ellenville" area as heard just now....
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
Do they have anything up on Sams Point ? That would be the site for Ellenville.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
155.535 PL 110.9
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