Trunked on Ham?

[slicerwizard]

Just going by the things I hear about some police departments and businesses buying DMR thinking their particular system cannot be monitored, and it sure can. I'm sure there are more bells and whistles to DMR system codes than I will ever be interested in, but the comment definitely has merit depending on different sources.

Weaksauce. DMR clear is the same as P25 clear. DMR 40 bit EP is the same as P25 40 bit ADP. DMR AES256 is ... take a wild guess.

Back in the day, the same privacy promises were made about trunking and later about P25. There is nothing that gives a claim that DMR encryption/privacy is any worse than P25 any merit whatsoever. It is nonsense.

 

[com501]

I wonder how many hams actually spend the money for the latest Amatuer Radio Handbook? There is a ton of new information on new digital systems. That ARH from 1952, is now dog-eared and outdated. And yes, I have every year from 1947 to this year in my library.

 

[exkalibur]

It's a shame that so many people in the hobby don't support experimentation and tinkering. Isn't that what the hobby is all about?

To address some concerns. You could easily set up an automatic identifier using CW. Most systems already have it, called a BSID. Depending on configuration, sites can also transmit an alias of up to 6 characters, which is more than enough to put in a callsign. Just because the identification isn't human-decodable doesn't make it illegal. Yes, I'm aware P97 says voice, CW, image or RTTY, but the spirit of the law is what is important here. The FCC isn't going to issue a violation as long as you're doing your due diligence.

Regarding One-Way transmissions, you are allowed to make a one-way transmission for the purpose of establishing a two-way communication. Seems to me that's the entire point of a control channel.

Sorry that you can't access a trunking system with an Icom 2AT but it doesn't mean others aren't willing to invest money into their own exploration of the hobby. If someone wants to go through the trouble of setting up a single channel P25 Intellipeter and spend God knows how much time and effort, let them.

Yes the hobby is self-policed, but as Riley Hollingsworth has said - "lighten up". If it doesn't affect you, don't be a kilocycle-cop.

 

[nd5y]

Several people mentioned how to make repeaters ID properly.
I want somebody to tell me how to set up the user radios to ID each time they make a transmission on a different frequency.
What box do you check in the Motorola CPS for "ham mode"?

 

[AI7PM]

Imagine the fun when, the people now in DMR who can't write a plug, start interacting in the trunked environment. Popcorn time.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Imagine the fun when, the people now in DMR who can't write a plug, start interacting in the trunked environment. Popcorn time.

Welcome to the time of ‘gimme’


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[Analog-Surf-1963]

Hi all,

Somewhat random question here, but is someone allowed to, with the help of a frequency coordinator, set up a trunked system on the ham bands? I know that nobody "owns" a specific frequency, but if the information to get on the system was public it should be considered a repeater, right? I've never seen it before because it would be so expensive, but would it be possible to set up a system?


Just a thought; What do you think about trunking on Ham?

Katt

What would be the point of a trunked system. ????

A multi million dollar chain of repeater sites all microwaved together
the software and liscensing alone would make it not cost effective.

States love to spend tax dollars on these things and they do work pretty good
but on a ham radio scale ?

Pete N1EXA

 

[kayn1n32008]

What would be the point of a trunked system. ????

A multi million dollar chain of repeater sites all microwaved together
the software and licensing alone would make it not cost effective.

States love to spend tax dollars on these things and they do work pretty good
but on a ham radio scale ?

Pete N1EXA

Not sure why you think a trunk system needs to be ‘A multi million dollar chain of repeater sites all microwaved together’

Motorola’s Linked Capacity Plus needs none of that.

There is no control channel, but a ‘rest’ channel that regularly beacons at a set interval, and needs nothing more than a LCP capable repeater with a IPV4 internet connection.

Advantages of LCP:

-Only need one repeater per site, this gives you 2 talk paths with all the advantages of trunking like:
-Only utilizing the sites that have subscribers listening on the in use talk group
-Allowing total flexibility in talk group assignment
-Private calls that do not tie up a timeslot system wide
-No Chinese garbage
-RAS to help keep the system secure from those that don’t support it
-Not having talkgroups strapped to timeslots
-IPV4 networking. This can be done via the public internet or private networks.

I just don’t understand this ‘Why do it’ ‘It’s a waste of money’ attitude. It’s a hobby geared to doing new things and experimenting.


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[WB9YBM]

Hi all,

Somewhat random question here, but is someone allowed to, with the help of a frequency coordinator, set up a trunked system on the ham bands? I know that nobody "owns" a specific frequency, but if the information to get on the system was public it should be considered a repeater, right? I've never seen it before because it would be so expensive, but would it be possible to set up a system?


Just a thought; What do you think about trunking on Ham?

Katt

It would certainly be an interesting thing to experiment with--and that's (at least supposed to be) big part of ham radio. It might also be a way to better manage radio traffic (maybe) in big cities or for certain events (like coordinating a marathon?). I think it's either trunking or TDM or some such that has been made legal for ham use, but I'd have to do a bit of digging to find the exact rule number and allowable format...

 

[DaveNF2G]

Pushing LCP is not the solution. There are a lot more surplus P25 radios than DMR radios.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Pushing LCP is not the solution. There are a lot more surplus P25 radios than DMR radios.

DMR is a far better protocol for ham use than P25.


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[slicerwizard]

What would be the point of a trunked system. ????

A multi million dollar chain of repeater sites all microwaved together
the software and liscensing alone would make it not cost effective.

States love to spend tax dollars on these things and they do work pretty good
but on a ham radio scale ?

Pete N1EXA

Why would you post such nonsense? It's already been done and no-one spent millions or used microwave links. Supporting your position with lies is not a good look.

 

[Mars_P25]

Several people mentioned how to make repeaters ID properly.
I want somebody to tell me how to set up the user radios to ID each time they make a transmission on a different frequency.
What box do you check in the Motorola CPS for "ham mode"?

The field labeled “AES-256”.

Who cares about IDing. Not once, in 25 years, have I ever received a phone call, a knock at the door or a letter in the mail, because somebody wasn’t sure who was talking on the radio. Do you actually think there’s somebody sitting there, listening, just looking to put you in jail?

You are qualified to operate the station. That’s all that matters. When I transmit a AES-256 secured voice call on my ham TRS, I use my name as my callsign. There’s absolutely no point whatsoever using a call sign when encrypted. If the speaker unmutes, you know who it is.

Our group has offered the local radio authorities access to the system numerous times over the years. They have declined each and every time, saying they absolutely do not care whatsoever.

Time for your ham laws down in the United States to get a little more progressive. It’s not World War II anymore, and the NSA is not scanning the airwaves looking for communists infiltrating the US. That’s what it was all about back then. So what if I do not ID? Is someone going to come and rape me in the middle the night?

Amateur radio is about communicating, learning and promoting/sharing of knowledge. Not much of that going on anymore.

 

[Mars_P25]

Imagine the fun when, the people now in DMR who can't write a plug, start interacting in the trunked environment. Popcorn time.

That’s what RAS is for

 

[Analog-Surf-1963]

Why would you post such nonsense? It's already been done and no-one spent millions or used microwave links. Supporting your position with lies is not a good look.

A real trunking system
Not this play school dmr stuff or Facebook radios
Stuff the happy hams gloat about

A real trunking system multi state coverage

Two guys with taxi cab radios with some Motorola business band extender they bought from the handset is a trunking system

As for nonsense 90 percent of the group can’t even pay for the exam fee
Little more buy a decent radio

Pete N1EXA

 

[kayn1n32008]

A real trunking system
Not this play school dmr stuff or Facebook radios
Stuff the happy hams gloat about

A real trunking system multi state coverage

Two guys with taxi cab radios with some Motorola business band extender they bought from the handset is a trunking system

As for nonsense 90 percent of the group can’t even pay for the exam fee
Little more buy a decent radio

Pete N1EXA

Someone has their knickers in a knot.


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[Mars_P25]

What would be the point of a trunked system. ????

A multi million dollar chain of repeater sites all microwaved together
the software and liscensing alone would make it not cost effective.

Who said anything about paying for the software? Motorola has been very generous to the amateur community and there's always surplus gear available which the taxpayers have paid for on our behalf.

States love to spend tax dollars on these things and they do work pretty good

Yes, exactly. I was saying.

but on a ham radio scale ?

I think the scale would be OK. Most North American hams are approximately 350 to 400 pounds. A six-timeslot DMR rack, including combiner and multicoupler probably would weigh in at about 1/3 of that.

 

[Mars_P25]

A real trunking system

You mean this? https://www.motorolasolutions.com/c...es/mototrbo-linked-capacity-plus-brochure.pdf

Not this play school dmr stuff or Facebook radios
Stuff the happy hams gloat about

What the heck is a Facebook radio? Is that one of them Cheap Chinese things with built-in camera feature?

A real trunking system multi state coverage

Yeah man, I'm with you on this. Capacity Plus Multi-Site is a great option. We've already linked two provinces (states) and can add up to 20 sites, wherever, depending on network latency. We can even do digital voting so long as latency is kept within specs. Can your CSQ ARES repeater do that? We can even dial DTMF tones and pretend there's emergencies (for drills) and stuff. I even interfaced a patch from 146.52 (analog) to a specific talkgroup on our system, in case we need interop with Fred and Harold from the OF breakfast club.

Two guys with taxi cab radios with some Motorola business band extender they bought from the handset is a trunking system

73

 

[kayn1n32008]

You mean this? https://www.motorolasolutions.com/c...es/mototrbo-linked-capacity-plus-brochure.pdf


What the heck is a Facebook radio? Is that one of them Cheap Chinese things with built-in camera feature?


Yeah man, I'm with you on this. Capacity Plus Multi-Site is a great option. We've already linked two provinces (states) and can add up to 20 sites, wherever, depending on network latency. We can even do digital voting so long as latency is kept within specs. Can your CSQ ARES repeater do that? We can even dial DTMF tones and pretend there's emergencies (for drills) and stuff. I even interfaced a patch from 146.52 (analog) to a specific talkgroup on our system, in case we need interop with Fred and Harold from the OF breakfast club.

73

We need a laugh button like Facebook. This is hilarious


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[AK9R]

You guys having fun?

Let's stick to the question. What are the technological and administrative hurdles that must be crossed to put a trunked system on the air in the amateur radio service? Is it possible? How would you go about it? If you aren't answering those questions, don't post. It's as simple as that.

If you think it's a dumb idea, you are entitled to your opinion. I think it's a dumb idea, too. Well, maybe "dumb" is too strong of a word. I just don't see the need. But, I'm not going to stand in the way of people who would like to try it.