Trunking Tables and Fleetmaps?

[ETMegabyte]

I have a Pro-106 scanner. I've updated the firmware(s) to the latest versions (1.4 for DSP, and 1.8 for the CPU)... Do I need to do anything with the talkgroup tables?

I have 2 Motorola Type II SmartZone systems I'd like to listen to, and 2 EDACS systems... And it seems I'm not hearing anything from ANY of them. 2 of the 4 systems are a ways away from me so signal level may be a problem, but there's one that I definitely SHOULD be able to hear, and I don't hear anything... I'm in Allenstown by Bear Brook State park, and I *should* be able to hear at least Manchester's EDACS system... Hell, I can hear Bedford's standard P25 system clear as day... Manchester should be no problem!

From my house, I can hear the Nashua 2meter Amateur Radio repeater clear as day too, so I'd think I would be able to hear Nashua's Motorola Type II system as well, but I don't get a peep out of it!

Does the firmware updates I put into the scanner update the default TTables so I can use the default, or will I have to set it to custom? I've tried it both ways, and neither works. Is there something else I'm missing?

Also, what's a Fleetmap? All of my TSYS entries have a Fleetmap of "Type 2"...

I'm using ARC500 if that matters... I haven't bought it yet, so does anyone recommend anything better or is this good?

 

[garys]

First, forget about Fleet Maps and tables. That was only used for Motorola Type I systems and there aren't any in New Hampshire. In fact, most of them have been upgraded to Type II and I don't think Motorola even supports Type I systems any longer.

For Manchester make sure you have the Trunk Type set to EDACS Standard, have the current frequencies (they rebanded a while ago), and have them in the proper Logical Channel Number (LCN) order.

For Nashua, make sure you have the current frequencies, because they rebanded not too long ago. The System Type should be Motorola 800/900, not P25 as many people assume because they used digital audio. Keep in mind that 2Meters is VHF and Nashua is working on 800 Mhz which has a much, much, shorter range. Also amateur repeaters want the widest coverage available, while a public safety system wants coverage for this response area only. Nashua is about 40 air miles from Allenstown, so unless you are on a hill, you are probably out of luck. For comparison, I'm less than 30 miles from Providence, RI and I can't hear their 800 system, but used to be able to hear the FD's VHF and PD's UHF channels fine.

If all of your fleet maps default to Type II, that probably means that you have the EDACS systems set up as Motorola. That won't work at all. Type II is the default for Motorola only.

The firmware version shouldn't matter at all for programming purposes.

If you have a premium subscription here, you can download the systems right into ARC 500.

I like the Butel software in general and tried all of the available programs for the PSR 600 and found it the easiest to use. That could be because I'm used to how it works and found it fastest to learn.

 

[ka3jjz]

If our databases have not yet been updated - or don't have all the info you want - check out the Scan New England NH wiki at:

New Hampshire Portal - Scan New England Wiki

Obviously you will need to do a lot of copy/pasting, but now you have a second source of information

73 Mike

 

[ETMegabyte]

First, forget about Fleet Maps and tables. That was only used for Motorola Type I systems and there aren't any in New Hampshire. In fact, most of them have been upgraded to Type II and I don't think Motorola even supports Type I systems any longer.

<snip>

If all of your fleet maps default to Type II, that probably means that you have the EDACS systems set up as Motorola. That won't work at all. Type II is the default for Motorola only.

The firmware version shouldn't matter at all for programming purposes.

The "Fleetmap" settings show in ARC500 whether the type is set to MOT 800/900 or EDACS. It may be just how ARC500 shows it... I was IN Manchester today, and from there could listen in on both Manchester and Nashua (Though even when IN Manchester the signal was crap), so it appears that my scanner is configured correctly for both systems. That's a good thing... It's also pretty clear that I'm not going to be able to listen to them from home even with an outside antenna... That's not so good... Oh well...

I guess the basis of my question was when I was reading the "Rebanding" wiki here, it said that "some radios won't work at all, others will need a firmware update"... Mine apparently needed a firmware update, but I'm not quite sure what that firmware update actually DID. My gut feeling is that if the firmware update addressed the rebanding process, then when I configure a MOT 800/900 system, I *should* be able to use the default table and not have to make a custom one, correct? I come to this conclusion because it's logical that part of that firmware update was to update the internal default table for the motorola 800/900MHz system.

Has anyone confirmed this? Is this what you meant when you said to forget about tables? Did you mean that the updated reband ttables are already part of my scanner now?

Thanks for everyone's help!

PS. ka3jjz, I referenced that site (and a couple others) during my mad dash to find frequencies for my scanner. I love the '73' at the end. It's not something I often see in print... 73 from N1RKR - Eric

 

[garys]

The "Fleetmap" settings show in ARC500 whether the type is set to MOT 800/900 or EDACS. It may be just how ARC500 shows it... I was IN Manchester today, and from there could listen in on both Manchester and Nashua (Though even when IN Manchester the signal was crap), so it appears that my scanner is configured correctly for both systems. That's a good thing... It's also pretty clear that I'm not going to be able to listen to them from home even with an outside antenna... That's not so good... Oh well...

I'm a bit surprised that you can't monitor Manchester and yes ARC500 does show that Fleetmap setting, but you can safely ignore it.

I guess the basis of my question was when I was reading the "Rebanding" wiki here, it said that "some radios won't work at all, others will need a firmware update"... Mine apparently needed a firmware update, but I'm not quite sure what that firmware update actually DID. My gut feeling is that if the firmware update addressed the rebanding process, then when I configure a MOT 800/900 system, I *should* be able to use the default table and not have to make a custom one, correct? I come to this conclusion because it's logical that part of that firmware update was to update the internal default table for the motorola 800/900MHz system.

I think so because those channels were in the normal Motorola band plan before rebanding. At least that's my understanding. For EDACS, all you need to do is program in the changed frequencies and the new LCN. That's all I did for Manchester, Worcester, and Hartford, and all three work fine after rebanding.

Has anyone confirmed this? Is this what you meant when you said to forget about tables? Did you mean that the updated reband ttables are already part of my scanner now?

Yes, the update should have included the reband tables. Again, at least I think so.

 

[epersson]

I live east of Derry and only pick up Manchester and Nashua with a very good rooftop antenna and an active amplifier. I get Goffstown easily becasue they are on a much lower frequency that travels further. The info in RR is correct for both Manchester and Nashua (rebanded) though. When I travel north both Nashua goes away on 93 near the Manchester line and Manchester fades out near the toll plaza. The don't seem to be very strong signals. Mass State police I get all over the place.

Easiest test is program in just the control frequency(s) and see if you hear clear motorboating, that will tell you right off if you can pick up those systems.

 

[jmarcel66]

Manchester's system isn't very strong and as said is gone by about the Hooksett Toll and maybe up towards the Allenstown/Hooksett line on Rt-3. I highly doubt you'd hear it in Bear Brook w/out a very tall antenna. Heck, the brook is tough for most everything (depending on exact location of course). We have a horrible time in Fire Alarm w/your area including our stuff, police, state forestry and even cell phones. I almost wonder if we should check out your location LOL. Nashua does far better than Manchester, but that's relative. It usually drops about the same place as Manchester going north.

Word on the street is Goffstown will eventually be shutting down the trunked system and returning to conventional. But haven't heard any updates in quite awhile.

I'm not sure what the 4th system you were looking for was.